Hua Hu ching

[entheojim]

any one get the feeling of too much dogma from this book? that is to say i think there is more then one way to do anything.

[Zion]

The truth is a one way path. If you touch fire you will get burned. and on and on...

[Bhaskar]

The tao is the tao, not the eternal tao.

[Gaston]

I see the hand of at least two very different authors. Verses 1 - 53 (in my translation by Brian Walker) could have for the most part been written by an Early Buddhist. At Verse 54 it jumps abruptly into religious Taoism.

It is, however, at the moment my favorite Taoist text, followed closely by Zuangzhi.

[Birmingham]

i don't know this book. can anyone show me a good online translation? Brian Walker's is rubbish.

[Bhaskar]

From Lao Tsu to Birmingham:
There are three jewels that I cherish:
compassion, moderation, and humility.

[Gaston]

i don't know this book. can anyone show me a good online translation? Brian Walker's is rubbish.Is there a published translation you prefer to Walker's, or do you read it in the original Chinese?

[Birmingham]

i'm new to this book and i'm interested in finding another translation but i won't get too caught up with it. i may read the chinese one day.

i wasn't dissing brian, i was just dissing his work.

i know the page about the 3 treasures well. they're compassion, frugality and humility in my translation. complicated words - i wish there were simpler alternatives.

but tao te ching also says: heaven and earth are not kind. and great leaders are not kind.

i think brian would benefit from reading my comments.

upon reading this far into brian's translation:

"I reach the Integral Way of uniting with the great and mysterious Tao. My teachings are simple; if you try to make a religion or science of them, they will elude you. Profound yet plain, they contain the entire truth of the universe."

ask yourself... what would an uneducated kid on the street think to this? it's not real.

* instead of integral way, try key way

* 'they will elude you' could be 'they will hide from you'

* 'entire truth' could be 'whole truth'

last page of the tao te ching says:
sincere words are not pretty. pretty words are not sincere.


last word of my post says:
brian needs to fix his 4th line: "Go to Introdcution..."

[Bhaskar]

I don't see how any of your changes would make the book any more palatable to the "uneducated kid on the steet." Perhaps because this is not a book for him, it is for someone already sincerely given to the path of Dao. The Hua hu Ching is not a primer.

That said, all your corrections, in my opnion, are but cosmetic changes that don't really add to (or take away from) the teaching. And digging out typos as a reason to criticize the book is perhaps a bit nit-picky and missing the point of the whole thing?

Finally, it is the most popular translation out there for a reason. He has made the book available to the layperson like me, who is neither interested in semantics, nor dogma, but in finding something to enrich the experience of life. And if the words are beautiful, that is a bonus.

[Bhaskar]

Perhaps you could do a ghetto-style translation for the uneducated kid on the street...

[Birmingham]

the great leader accepts all, rejects none.

your word palatable is a bit pretty too

music and sweets make passing guests pause. great tao emerges, flavourless and bland.

[Bhaskar]

Don't take the master's words at face value. Meditate and touch true meaning of them.
By your use of his words, the next time you are offered tasty food you should reject it and chew cardboard. The Tao te Ching is not out to prescribe a diet.
Those who understand understand. Those who don't will.

[Birmingham]

but tastey food is ok, so long as you take care of the belly, not the eye!

[Bhaskar]

Exactly. Nourishment is nourishment, whether it be in harsh and uncouth words or carefully constructed poetry.

[Birmingham]

but studying is not recommended. pursuing knowledge is not recommended. acting without dependence of knowledge of fine words is recommended. pretty words are less accessible. To be most accessible they should be most simple.

[Bhaskar]

Don't generalize. To some people it is the poetry that is appealing, that touches them and sparks inspiration in them, that nourishes them. To some people it is less accessible. If JW's translation is not suited to your needs, that is fine. Don't condemn it across board. It has its place and its value for many.

[Birmingham]

Don't generalize. It has its place and its value for many.

As do my generalisations and your orders. See the illogic?

[Gaston]

The Hua hu Ching is not a primer.
No kidding!

When I first read it, I saw two authors (or groups of authors), one early Buddhist, the other Taoist.

Now I see five. :confused:

One, an early Buddhist.

Two, a disenchanted later Buddist. (Although #1 and #2 might be possibly the same author)

Three, a Lao-Chuang Taoist.

Four, a Confucian.

Five, a religious Taoist.

I still like the book very much, but you certainly have to keep your mind engaged while reading it.

[Birmingham]

I still like the book very much...

which phrases from this book would you say have taught you the most?

(same question also to Bhaskar, and everyone else...)

[Bhaskar]

As do my generalisations and your orders. See the illogic?I am not ordering anything. If you must generalize, brand and condemn, do so. I doubt if it is going to do you any good, just as arguing with you is going to do me no good.

[Bhaskar]

No kidding!

When I first read it, I saw two authors (or groups of authors), one early Buddhist, the other Taoist.

Now I see five. :confused:


it's interesting. I don't read it with that in mind. After all the teachings of the tao are essentially nondual. I see the Hua Hu Ching, or indeed all books and all things, as expressions of the Tao. The pens may change, the writer is still one.

[Bhaskar]

One of my favorites:

Do you imagine the universe is agitated? Go into the desert at night and took out at the stars. This practice should answer the question. The superior person settles her mind as the universe settles the stars in the sky. By connecting her mind with the subtle origin, she calms it. Once calmed, it naturally expands, and ultimately her mind becomes as vast and immeasurable as the night sky.

[Gaston]

which phrases from this book would you say have taught you the most?

(same question also to Bhaskar, and everyone else...)I don't really read it that way. I don't read to memorize so I can win arguments, or quote dogma, and I'm certainly not at a level to teach anyone about anything. I try to read with an open mind, absorbing as best I may the intention of the writer without analyzing the phraseology. I am, after all, reading translations, it would be foolish of me to get too "hung up" on the particular words.