View Full Version : How is god eternal?
Inquiring-Mind
09-14-2005, 10:59 PM
Every time time I talk to a christian they say god is "eternal" and does not require creation. What does this mean?
Colours
09-14-2005, 11:24 PM
it means that they can say to us "trust me he exists" while making others look for hard evidence before claiming anything.
Inquiring-Mind
09-15-2005, 02:30 AM
it means that they can say to us "trust me he exists" while making others look for hard evidence before claiming anything.
It is used as defensive i think
Mr MiGu
09-15-2005, 02:39 AM
its to counter the "what created god" argument
though, i dont see why 'existance' cant be eternal, and needs a creator at all if god doesnt
Inquiring-Mind
09-15-2005, 02:42 AM
its to counter the "what created god" argument
though, i dont see why 'existance' cant be eternal, and needs a creator at all if god doesnt
That is a good counter argument.
Quest_techie
09-15-2005, 02:43 AM
Every time time I talk to a christian they say god is "eternal" and does not require creation. What does this mean?
no one invented math, it's just always been true
it's like that.....
StonerBill
09-15-2005, 03:05 AM
but math is really just the human's representation of what is true in a form that makes doing maths presumably easiest. just like god is some human's representation of the spiritual form/nature of reality, and is in a form that makes life and controlling lives easier than atheists
;)
TrippinBTM
09-15-2005, 04:07 AM
eternal/eternity is beyond or before time. cause and effect are in time.
its to counter the "what created god" argument
though, i dont see why 'existance' cant be eternal, and needs a creator at all if god doesnt
Of course, if existence is eternal, then so could god. That argument goes both ways.
Colours
09-15-2005, 07:07 AM
but math is really just the human's representation of what is true in a form that makes doing maths presumably easiest. just like god is some human's representation of the spiritual form/nature of reality, and is in a form that makes life and controlling lives easier than atheists
;)
wow thats fucking amazing.
Tsubasa
09-15-2005, 10:01 AM
Eternity, like infinity, is a concept that humans can understand but never fully grasp. It's easy to say "infinity is repition for ever" (as is eternity in a different form), but no human being is capable of actually imagining such a concept. Our minds are about limits. We can define anything within limits. Four trillion? Sure. We can comprehend that. Infinite amounts of time? Without a beginning and end we can never understand. So really, I think, christians argue that God exists outside our ability to comprehend. If we argue the existence of other phases of existence, it's possible that infinity and eternity to our state of being is something completely different to the all-powerful god figure in the christian belief system.
TrippinBTM
09-15-2005, 04:04 PM
but math is really just the human's representation of what is true in a form that makes doing maths presumably easiest. just like god is some human's representation of the spiritual form/nature of reality, and is in a form that makes life and controlling lives easier than atheists
;)
Right. Math is just another language (symbolic representation of reality). This is why science is limited and will never be complete or find Truth. It's still abstracting it, very precisely with math, but it's still abstract.
Cosmic Butterfly
09-15-2005, 05:42 PM
How is God not eternal? I guess it depends on your perspective of what God is?
I think of space, time, and infinite dimensions...Exploding stars, and atoms being born. The endless exchange of subtle and gross energies in this multiverse.
Varuna
09-15-2005, 10:11 PM
Eternal simply means not confined (or defined) by time.
Libertine
09-15-2005, 10:38 PM
no one invented math, it's just always been true
it's like that.....
Actually, techie... "GOD" invented math. ;)
Colours
09-15-2005, 11:35 PM
what if our math wasnt sufficient to explain reality, not even sufficient to explain things like wave particle duality. would we just give up? or try to invent something new? would tha teven be possible?
Well eternal is another word for infinite, obviously right?
Varuna
09-16-2005, 02:30 AM
Well eternal is another word for infinite, obviously right?
Eternity and Infinity are not the same thing at all. Infinity is an unlimited amount of something, in this case, time. Eternal simply means not confined (or defined) by time. Eternity is independent and completely unaffected by time.
Think of it this way, Time is to Eternity as Inches are to Music.
Peace and Love
Inquiring-Mind
09-16-2005, 05:45 AM
its to counter the "what created god" argument
though, i dont see why 'existance' cant be eternal, and needs a creator at all if god doesntThe Atheist: If humans require creation to exist does that not also apply for god?
The Christian: God is eternal he does not require creation to exist.
The Atheist: So why do humans require creation to exist then?
The Christian: Because there is got to be creator.
The Atheist: Why can't existence be eternal?
The Christian: Because existence requires a beginning.
The Atheist: Why doesn't god require a beginning?
The Christian: God is absolute.
The Atheist: How so?
The Christian: God is the best answer we can explain existence with.
The Atheist: If god does not require creation then I don't either to exist.
The Christian: I guess so.
The Atheist: Why does existence require creation?
The Christian: It must have a beginning and the christian concludes the beginning is god.
Here is problem with the argument:
god is ever lasting he is eternal human existence is not. So does the christian have a point?
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