grafting cacti

[nesta]

i've been reading up tonight about grafting slow growing cacti such as Lophophoras and similar cacti to faster growing cacti such as columnar species (like Trichocereus pachanoi, due to its reduced spine problems) or leafy species like Pereskiopsis

doing this, if you don't know, can cause things like peyote and false-peyotes (usually non-mescaline containing psychoactive cacti in the same general type of cactus that peyote is), which usually take many years to grow to full maturity, to grow at many times they're normal speed. According to mushmush.nl (former spore and cacti and such supplier, currently still have some care/cultivation information) grafting extremely young peyote seedlings to very young pereskiopsis cacti can speed up growth by as much as ten times! check out their pics:
http://www.mushmush.nl/images/methods/grafting_cacti/pick_seedling.jpg
peyote to be grafted
http://www.mushmush.nl/images/methods/grafting_cacti/finished.jpggrafted peyote buttons after TWO MONTHS from grafting. the first pic shows the size they were at the time of the grafting....nearly nothing. imagine it- fully harvestable peyote after a year or two. san pedro also speeds it up quite a bit, but to a lesser extent.

ok, now these questions are for those of you who DO know about this:

-L. diffusa contains no mescaline and is not specifically illegal in the US. some places that wont ship L. williamsii seeds to the US WILL ship L. diffusa....sometimes even young plants. i do not understand the nature of how the plants act once they're grafted....are they one plant? like, if i graft it to a non-psychoactive fast growing cact, will the whole thing be psychoactive or only the cacti at the top? and if i were to obtain L. diffusa, which isn't as difficult to get as L. williamsii, could i graft it to san pedro and have it produce mescaline in it even if it's other alkaloids don't go to the san pedro part of the creation? this would be an idea for basically legally growing peyote. L. diffusa doesn't normally contain mescaline, but is psychoactive and contains many of the same compounds as peyote which the trichocereus cacti like san pedro and peruvian torch lack. if it could be grafted to san pedro and end up producing the pedro's mescaline as well, it would basically be much closer to the effect of proper L. williamsii than eithe normal diffusa or san pedro is.

-Does anyone know if its possible to find legitimate companies that will ship williamsii seeds to the us? i'm unsure if this is legal or not, but my guess would be that it isn't unless you're an NAC member.

i'm highly curious about this. i'm about to try my first cactus experience in a few weeks most likely and i couldnt be more excited. the prospect of growing my own cacti someday is equally exciting, and the idea of growing actual peyote as quickly as it is possible when grafted is just about the most wonderful thing i could imagine. much more of a loving connection to it than even with mushrooms, but much more low key and rewarding than growing something unimportant like marijuana. it's still a long period of waiting and caring for the cactus, but much more practical than growing peyote on it's own for most people (what if you move before the next couple of years? if your peyote garden is of any substantial quantity at all it would become very hard to move it discretely)

please let me know more about this, it's a fascinating subject!

[nesta]

so is this too stupid for response, over peoples heads, or do you just not feel like repyling? i'd be quite happy if i could get some answers.....

if no one knows, does anyone know of a message board about this type of stuff....sort of like the shroomery, but with people that specialize with cactus related information?

[*CHAMELEON*]

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4836/000trichocereuspanochoipeyoteg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[*CHAMELEON*]

I realy think it will be maybe be next to close to impossible to have seeds of peyote(williamsii ) shipped to you if you live in the United States.It's illegal. It's also an endangered species of cacti.That makes it difficult to obtain. Basically when you graft a plant onto another they do not take on the characteristicts of the other plant chemically.They are basically using the same water system in their xylem and becomming fused together as they grow.That is about it organically speaking.Using them at the same time would be intresting and I'm sure the different compounds in both would equal for an intense experience.Inside the brain they might in fact work in tandem or in some other way neurochemically speaking if ingested together.I think the laws on grafting were overlooked in a likelyhood concerning peyote. So if you can get away with it. Go for it.

[*CHAMELEON*]

Well it is pretty cool what a small knife and a couple of rubber bands can do.

[nesta]

finally a response! thank you!
I realy think it will be maybe inp next to close to impossible to have seeds of peyote(williamsii ) shipped to you if you live in the United States.It's illegal. It's also an endangered species of cacti.That makes it difficult to obtain. i recognize both of those facts. however, it is not legal in any number of other countries, such as canada, the UK, and much of mainland europe. many headshops sell peyote seeds, and even growkits, right next to san pedro and peruvian torch and a few other cacti. many of these shops claim to be able to send them anywhere. i understand that these seeds are a part of the plant and the plant itself is illegal therefore the seeds are too, however the seeds are tiny and i seriously doubt that a dog could sniff out seeds. if the package is open at customs, i'm sure they'd just take the seeds rather than go through the pointless and expensive procedure of busting someone for NOT having mescaline yet. apart from that, the seeds may be easier to get through customs simply because of the NAC exceptions, and they aren't going to waste time on someone who is getting a few seeds, possibly for recognized legitimate religious purposes. at least, thats my thought on it, and i hope it would be true. who knows? at any rate, it shouldnt be too hard to get them. i could even go to canada and smuggle them in myself if i wanted badly enough. this isn't anything relating to the immediate future, i'm just thinking about perhaps years down the road i may wish to experience this elusive sacrament.
Basically when you graft a plant onto another they do not take on the characteristicts of the other plant chemically.They are basically using the same water system in their xylem and becomming fused together as they grow.That is about it organically speaking.okay, thats what i expected, but not what i hoped for. clears things up quite a bit, thanks. :)
Using them at the same time would be intresting and I'm sure the different compounds in both would equal for an intense experience.Inside the brain they might in fact work in tandem or in some other way neurochemically speaking if ingested together.yeah, i thought about that, but it seems like just too much cactus to eat....maybe if i made an extraction.
I think the laws on grafting were overlooked in a likelyhood concerning peyote. So if you can get away with it. Go for it.i'm not sure what you mean about the laws on grafting. care to elaborate at all?

thank you very much for replying, i was beginning to lose hope.

[*CHAMELEON*]

I guess in this case it wouldn't matter much being that they are not commercially cultivated for food. Common food consumption that have patents and copyrights. As you said before(about the seeds) there is very little chance of a dog actually trained to do that sort of thing outside of probably the Mexican /Texas border.I doubt there as well. I apologize it has been quite some time I've been to a head shop for anything.I've only exclusively have used San Pedro myself concerning mescaline ingestion.I mean say whether or not you graft an illegal cacti onto any other cacti it would still be considered illegal.All in all who's really going to notice.As in the case of trichocereus family of cacti . Virtually any neighborhood in the southwest has them in yards. Most people have no idea what secrets lie just under the skin.You can always reduce the cactus to make an extract if you wish not to consume so much.At the bottom of this page of this link (pg 10 to 11 shows how to extract.)
http://www.sternchat.com/boards/showthread.php?t=18470&page=10&pp=20