good or bad spirits?

[kayy]

this my very personal theory. I beleive my self in animism , that is, i beleive i a big variety of spirits, that can inhabit/leave a body easily and usually quite often. I have been thinking about capitalism, big label like coke, etc... this have in some way made it poosible to give out a spirit, it means, that everytime you drink, consume their product, it's spirit -not only it's material content- will inhabit us for a little while.... That is why label are so powerful and expensive....

[Sebbi]

Good and bad isn't a very animistic way of thinking.


Good and bad are very human concepts but spirit is like electricity or fire:

Is fire bad? No. Is fire good? No

Fire just is.

Blessings

Sebbi

[heron]

Yes they are "human concepts" but that doesnt mean that they dont apply to decription of spirits.

Good and bad do not apply to natural occurance, such as hurricanes, fire, etc, but it most certainly applys to spirits. Spirits are just like people, some good, some bad, some middle of the road. Some you can trust, some you cant.

Animistic cultures the world over had good and bad spirits, and demons too.

Good and bad isnt a good "wiccan" way of thinking, but it by all means an animistic one.

[kayy]

yeah i agree, i am not so verbal, the "good or bad" was just because i needed a title, you both seem to focus on petty things/words, what i really wanted to hade said was: capitalism (in my own view) and it's labelling is not only about materialism , it is about something higer, and that scares me when they work with this kind of beleif....

[heron]

I focused on the animistic parts of the discussion, wondering if
capitalism has a spirit was too silly to worry with.

Spirits inhabit objects, not concepts and systems of goverment and economics.

[Sebbi]

Firstly - not Wiccan - I did at one point FOUR YEARS AGO consider myself Wiccan, but things have changed since then.

Secondly - have you ever met a inherently bad person?

Probably not - you've probably met some complete tossers who have more weaknesses than strengths.

Same applies to spirits - certainly, I would think carefully before placing my trust in a spirit. None, however, are inherently bad either. That is unless you're thinking of a demon, but even then I've heard stories of demons that redeem themself.

If you look into the more precise mythology of animistic cultures you'll find it goes deeper than that.

Stories focus upon a hero, (generally), the hero has a task and anything standing in the way of that path is, for the sake of the story bad, because that way it's more easily understood. However as soon as you start to see the story from the perspective of the "villian" you see that there or no goodness or badness, just a conflict in desires.

Blessings

Sebbi

[heron]

inherently bad? no, but bad none the less.

[heron]

oh, and as to the hero/villian thing, that makes me think of the book
"Grendal", which is written from that opposite perspective.

[Sebbi]

I haven't come across that one. I'm aware of the story of the Grendal - it's a nordic story isn't it?

In regards to the book I found that in, the story next to it is one I perform so I always focused on that one.

Blessings

Sebbi

[heron]

Beowulf is the old Germanic story,
but Grendal is a fiction book
that someone wrote, but
with the villian, Grendal,
telling it from his viewpoint
and how it was all a mistake.

[Sebbi]

Haha - you have much to learn my friend.

Where do you think they got the name "Grendal" from?

[heron]

Grendal was the monster in Beowulf, like I said.

[Sebbi]

*checks if mythology is correct*

Damn it you may have a point there.

Anyway - I swear it was Nordic.

Blessings

Sebbi

[heron]

not nordic, Saxonic.

I was nordic is Eaters of the Dead, written by
Michael Criton, based on the story of Beowulf.

The movie was called 13th Warrior.

But the original story is Beowulf, the Saxonic Epic

[TrippinBTM]

I thought "Eaters of the Dead" was based on a Arab traveler's diary of his trip among the Vikings.

[heron]

Loosely based, it was more lik ethe Arab travelers diary
in the structure of Beowulf.

But it wasnt actually a happening in the diary,
more like a fictionalized event of history.

But it is the Beowulf story.

[Zion]

My understanding of spirits can equate quite properly to that. My understanding for what the word spirit meant when it was first said was a lingering thought, or a possible thought(mood). if your in a bad mood then your "spirit" was in bad shape. Thus being bad(evil) spirited. Or catching a bad spirit. Not some invisible energy form, in a literal sense. Its a symbol, a metaphore, so yeah if you desire coke, the desire could be a slave driver, Forcing you to need a coke. So if you cant maintain control over your thgouths, Coke could take you over, via your owne desires. or as you say thoguh spirit.

[MrRee]

this my very personal theory. I beleive my self in animism , that is, i beleive i a big variety of spirits, that can inhabit/leave a body easily and usually quite often. I have been thinking about capitalism, big label like coke, etc... this have in some way made it poosible to give out a spirit, it means, that everytime you drink, consume their product, it's spirit -not only it's material content- will inhabit us for a little while.... That is why label are so powerful and expensive....It's a good one kayy!
I very much like your observation and believe it to be the case also kayy. When you write words on a page, your intention is transferred into the psyche of the reader. In the same way, artists transmit their essence of meaning. It also possibly explains the reason why people buy and collect all manner of strange things ~ because they develop the need for the spirit of the thing to enter them so that something transcendentally spiritual can be felt. There are also some products that I will not buy or touch under any circumstances simply by the vibe I get from looking at them. Likewise with people.

[NatureFreak412]

The 13th Warrior is about Beowulf? I didnt know that ... I need to watch it, how close is it to the real story?

[freakon]

MrRee, exactly!
And we think everything is "desacralized" because it is commercial or whatever.... but i KNOW how easy it is to be inhabited by unwanted spirits...

[freakon]

and, by using the conveniences of some of these corporate companies, we actually are giving away a bit of our soul/energy/freedom/. we think we get something out of them, but in fact they are feeding on us. think about it....

[Chodpa]

There are also some products that I will not buy or touch under any circumstances simply by the vibe I get from looking at them. Likewise with people.
Like what?

[freakon]

once you realise that life is sacred, then you can try to learn to feel/see what is "inhabited" and by what. Profane or sacred??

[themnax]

i have not felt strong hostile intent in anything nontangable, only sometimes playfulness and sometimes a kind of not the kind of voracious gragariousness humans supposedly have. more a kind of live and let live innocence that doesn't reject anything that doesn't reject itself.

i don't mean by that to presume to describe, as dominant beliefs often do, what is neither known nor in any literal sense knowable.

=^^=
.../\...

[freakon]

capitalism is a form of animism, unfortunately..... things =fetishes=consumtion (and look at the BRAND MANIA we have around us, why is that so important? because we think that it will give something more than just the material need)

[themnax]

"fetishes" may "= consumerism", but what does EITHER have to do with animism?

this is called playing with words, not honest thoughts.

people with vested perspectives have been known to call other people's medicine 'fetishes', but this still isn't 'animism' as far as i can see.

=^^=
.../\...

[heron]

capitalism is a form of animism, unfortunately..... things =fetishes=consumtion (and look at the BRAND MANIA we have around us, why is that so important? because we think that it will give something more than just the material need)

I now feel dumber having read that.

[Nimrod's Apprentice]

For once Heron we have agreed on this. Lol so freakon would you consider shopping then a form of Shamanism?

[themnax]

when something gives itself to us
to sustain our existence
what are we to call it bad
and not thank it for doing so?

if something motivates us to cause harm
well harm is harm
that is the only good and bad that there is

so how can a spirit be good or bad
any more then you or i can

some may seem mischievous perhapse
or fun loving
are any of us so sanctified as to judge that

only each awairness can avoid its own causing harm
be it visible and solid or something we can see only in our minds

=^^=
.../\...

[freakon]

spirits can inhabit not only nature (trees, mountains or rocks) but also THINGS!!!!!!!!!!!! simple as that. it's not at all the same kind, or with the same "intent" (!), but it is still a kind of spirit....

[heron]

a spirit "inhabiting" something, and something inherantly having a spirit are two different things. And "in the spirit" of something, like a company, is different as well.

[strawpuppy]

.

[freakon]

well mister heron you can have your beleif, and i can have mine, is that oK? or do we all need to be followers of your path....? well, i have my knowledge, and i respect yours, but you are a bit arrogant, but i think that you are nor actually, just, that your path is far away from mine. and that should be ok?

[heron]

I am arrogant...but that should discredit my views in no way....you have your beliefs....when i have said otherwise??

[freakon]

ok, than leave space to those those small voices aren't that loud as yours..... peace

[themnax]

a spirit "inhabiting" something, and something inherantly having a spirit are two different things. And "in the spirit" of something, like a company, is different as well.

i tend to aggree. but when i feel the spiritness of a place, my first reflex is not to attempt to judge which it might be, but rather to appreciate the harmoniousness of and with it. likewise when some creature, or sometimes even machine, behaives calmly in my presence.

that's why i prefer the word and concept of 'spiritness', as i intend it to encompass all of these possibilities without requireing the baggage and assumed judement of and as to either.

i don't know if there's some little invisible guy inhabiting a solid chunk of rock. it's that sense, not even having to be of presence, but of, ach, words fail me, really the best i can come up with is calling it a feeling or sense of spiritness.

and this i feel as a positive thing. not this nonsense as some beliefs do, of trying to put a human or demihuman face on it. you know that's what i see as indiginous traditions, that everything has its own KIND of 'face' not like we have to think of it in terms of how we think of two legged human people.

i mean that's really not how i think of anything nontangable as being, having some sort of fixed paravisable form, let alone resembling our own.

i'm not even convinced our own awirness does that. i think we're all just blobs of spirit energy really, as far as any potentialy perminent parts of ourselves are concerned.

but again a spiritness of place isn't something, some mobile extension or anything like that, seperate and appart from that place itself. not that it couldn't be i suppose, just not that it would have to be either.

likewise of a machine or a creature or anything else.

=^^=
.../\...