The jews are almost all gone

[Green]

Infact, you make up 0.2 percent of the worlds population now.

[Soulless||Chaos]

But are there less of them, or just more of everyone else? :rolleyes:

[ryupower]

really? I didn't know that! :eek:

[drumminmama]

what's your point, Green?

[BraveSirRubin]

Yet we still control so much :)

[JesusDiedForU]

Don't forget although the Jews run short in numbers and Israel is small in size it is still in the center of the world's attention : )

[Aerosolhalos]

Sounds like someone's never been to New York.

[seamonster66]

.2 is still 14 million people

[JesusDiedForU]

.2 is still 14 million people
Now how does that compare to other races such as Chinese or Indian. Also I must point out that all the Jews even in America will return to Israel.... God's word demands it.

[seamonster66]

Judaism is a religion, India and China are countries for one thing.

And secondly, if everything in the bible is true according to you, then something has been misinterpreted, there is no chance of that happening.

[JesusDiedForU]

Judaism is a religion, India and China are countries for one thing.

And secondly, if everything in the bible is true according to you, then something has been misinterpreted, there is no chance of that happening.
Is there such a thing as a jewish race?

The Bible is very clear.... The Jews will return to their own land. This prophecy is found all over the OT but a good reference is in Ez. 37

[JesusDiedForU]

O yeah its already happening....

[seamonster66]

No it isn't....every major US and European city has a significant Jewish population, and i for one, will prevent your little prophecy from happening while I am alive...sorry to rain on your parade, but you will have to wait for the end of the world....

Maybe you won't even see the end of the world, and wouldn't that be so sad for you....boooo hoooo

[JesusDiedForU]

No it isn't....every major US and European city has a significant Jewish population, and i for one, will prevent your little prophecy from happening while I am alive...sorry to rain on your parade, but you will have to wait for the end of the world....

Maybe you won't even see the end of the world, and wouldn't that be so sad for you....boooo hoooo
Do you even know why most of the Jews will return to Israel? If you studied the Babylon Prophecies you would know.

[JesusDiedForU]

Explain...

[vinceneilsgirl]

Sounds like someone's never been to New York.
No kidding!

[atropine]

Is there such a thing as a jewish race?

of course there is

hell, just get a dictionary. a jew can be of race or religion. so there are jews with no faith in god.

[the dauer]

atropine,

The confusion is that Judaism is a different type of religion than Christianity which is faith-based. Judaism is more of a nation-religion. There used to be many such religions. Judaism is the only one that has survived. A Jew who does not believe in God is not a Jew for racial reasons, but rather for religious reasons. They are a Jew because their mother was a Jew. If they are female and marry a non-Jew, their child will be Jewish. If they are male and marry a non-Jew, their child will not be Jewish. Jewishness is determined by matrilineal descent. Tribal affiliation is patrilineal.

This is all according to halachah, to Jewish religious law, which does not operate according the laws by which science would determine a race.

Dauer

[heron]

Out of curiosity, if "Jewishness" is passed on matrilineally, then shouldnt there be more focus on Asherah rather than Yahweh?

How is it that the Levite priests manage to stamp out worship of the goddess of the Semitic people, but managed to keep matrilineal practices? If it is a patrilineal religion, you would think that it would be a patrilineal culture through and through.

Not trying to be offensive, just honestly curious for an answer.

[the dauer]

At one point there as the tribe being passed on patrilineally and nothing matrilineal. But there came a point where it was necessary to determine whether a child was actually Jewish, and this could not be done via the father because the father could not necessarily be determined, however the mother always could. That is all something that Orthodox Judaism would deny. It would go so far as to interpret Torah according to the laws of matrilineal descent. Tribe, however, was always patrilineal.

But if you are under the assumption that there is no divine feminine in Judaism, you are incorrect. It survived in many forms, from the Shechinah, which is God's presence, to other things that aren't actually godly like the Torah, the Shabbat, both feminine in gender. Another thing to point out is that Yhwh ends with an "H" which is, actually, usually a feminine ending so concept is much more egal friendly. It was those who came later that would replace that name with Adonai, which means "My Lord."

I guess my answer is that it's not a patrilineal religion through and through. We use a lunar calendar, and there are records of women's gatherings around the new moon that go back. It is not a purely linear religion. We have a few harvest festivals on our calendar that are significant.

Another point I will make is that the Jerusalem priesthood did not create rabbinic Judaism. The rabbis did. They built it the same way the Jerusalem priesthood built their religion, by using the older text to validate their ideas. But if you try to learn Judaism with only a Tanach, you're going to miss a lot.

Dauer

edit: I'll also mention some feminine names of God

El Shadai (God of Breasts or Breasted God although originall it may have meant God of the hills, this is how it is sometimes understood within the Jewish tradition.)

El Rachamim (Wombly God or, more frequently translated as compassionate God, from rechem, which means womb.)

Shechinah (God's presence)

Yhwh (ends with a hei, which is usually feminine.)

Yah (Also ends with a hei.)

[heron]

Thanks man, you exposed me to some things i didnt know about Judaism.

Its appreciated.

[StonerBill]

the only reason jews arent turning into mutants is because theyve spread. otehrwise theyd just keep interbreeding.
or maybe its too late

but really, with people so uptight about marrying in their religion, its no wonder that their population levels would be obscure

[the dauer]

The population levels are low because of two reasons:

1. Jews have been persecuted a little bit.

2. Judaism does not proselytize.

In fact, the DNA studies suggest that the early Jewish communities to begin to spread out, were predominantly Jewish men and non-Jewish women. This is not a problem because while Judaism doesn't proselytize, it does allow conversion.

Dauer

[pabloman]

I used to have a Jewish girlfriend.
Her name was Kelly Klein and she is LONG GONE :(

[the dauer]

My zaide, my grandfather, told me a story, and I don't know if it's true because he sometimes does make up stories, about the Jews of Scotland. Growing up he had lived in London and then after a bombing during WWII he lived in Leeds. There was some sort of UK-wide Jewish youth gathering that he would go to. And he said the Jews of Scotland would dress Scottish (as he said would the Jews from each of the different places in the UK dress like the region they were from), were demanding to be recognized as the McCohen Clan, I think that's the name. But this request was denied. I think he said they had designed all the symbology to go with the clan also according to this story. Then again, he could have made the whole thing up just to tell a story. That was a long time ago, anyway.

Dauer

[soulrebel51]

Explain... Obviously seamonster is Jewish, and he will not be going back to Israel.

There goes that prophecy. ;)

[hippypaul]

Thanks man, you exposed me to some things i didnt know about Judaism.

Its appreciated.
I agree with Heron - glad to learn new things - Thank You

[JesusDiedForU]

Obviously seamonster is Jewish, and he will not be going back to Israel.

There goes that prophecy. ;)
Under the future circumstances Seamonster may even go to Israel. But the prophecy is not saying that every single Jew must return to Israel but MOST Jews will.

[the dauer]

I won't. Nor will any of my family, including extended family. Not just because of the violence there. Most of my family isn't particularly observant, and this is true for many many Jews. Jesus D, I think you're wrong on this one. Just surveying the contemporary Jewish landscape. I will visit Israel hopefully through the Birthright program. My cousin did that. But that's about it.

Dauer

[JesusDiedForU]

I won't. Nor will any of my family, including extended family. Not just because of the violence there. Most of my family isn't particularly observant, and this is true for many many Jews. Jesus D, I think you're wrong on this one. Just surveying the contemporary Jewish landscape. I will visit Israel hopefully through the Birthright program. My cousin did that. But that's about it.

Dauer
You simply do not knwo the prophecies then...

[the dauer]

I don't think knowing prophecies is going to motivate most people. Firstly, in Judaism a negative prophecy doesn't have to come true. It could happen in a different way. So if the prophecy you're speaking of is in some way negative, Judaism would see it as a type of warning that could be avoided. Second, many many Jews reject prophecy in whole or in part, including myself, in my case in whole according to the "Judeo-Christian" definition of augury. That's not necessarily a Jewish definition, or even a Christian one, but that seems to be the "Judeo-Christian" definition. I don't like that word.

How would being aware of a prophecy I don't believe in encourage me to go to Israel? Are you talking about a particular prophecy about the ingathering of the Jewish people? Which one? And why would knowing about it effect someone who doesn't believe in it?

Dauer

[drumminmama]

My zaide, my grandfather, told me a story, and I don't know if it's true because he sometimes does make up stories, about the Jews of Scotland. Growing up he had lived in London and then after a bombing during WWII he lived in Leeds. There was some sort of UK-wide Jewish youth gathering that he would go to. And he said the Jews of Scotland would dress Scottish (as he said would the Jews from each of the different places in the UK dress like the region they were from), were demanding to be recognized as the McCohen Clan, I think that's the name. But this request was denied. I think he said they had designed all the symbology to go with the clan also according to this story. Then again, he could have made the whole thing up just to tell a story. That was a long time ago, anyway.

Dauer
your Zaidy sounds like a hoot!

[JesusDiedForU]

How would being aware of a prophecy I don't believe in encourage me to go to Israel? Are you talking about a particular prophecy about the ingathering of the Jewish people? Which one? And why would knowing about it effect someone who doesn't believe in it?

Dauer
The prophecy will not encourage a Jew to go to Israel but the circumstances that the prophecies decribe will. There will rumors and threats of nuclear war on America and will cause most to flee to their own land.

Because of the sword of the oppressor
let everyone return to his own people,
let everyone flee to his own land.

-Jeremiah 50:16

But I will bring Israel back to his own pasture.

-Jeremiah 50:19

For Israel and Judah have not been forsaken
by their God, the LORD Almighty,
though their land is full of guilt
before the Holy One of Israel.
"Flee from Babylon!
Run for your lives!
Do not be destroyed because of her sins.
It is time for the LORD's vengeance;
he will pay her what she deserves.

-Jeremiah 51:6


"Come out of her, my people!
Run for your lives!
Run from the fierce anger of the LORD.
Do not lose heart or be afraid
when rumors are heard in the land;
one rumor comes this year, another the next,
rumors of violence in the land
and of ruler against ruler

-Jeremiah 51:45-46

[the dauer]

Jeremiah was alive during the time of Josiah. I wonder if he wrote all of this around the destruction of Jerusalem... Much more likely he's babbling to the people of his own time than people of the distant future.

Drummin,

indeed he is.

[JesusDiedForU]

Jeremiah was alive during the time of Josiah. I wonder if he wrote all of this around the destruction of Jerusalem... Much more likely he's babbling to the people of his own time than people of the distant future.

Drummin,

indeed he is.
Is Babylon Jerusalem? If so, when was Jerusalem destroyed in one hours time?

[drumminmama]

(edited to be nice)
Babylon is what is now Iraq.
(A rabbi I met this summer was the man who danced a Torah scroll in Saddam's Palace. It was a Balvi.)
destruction of Jerusalem tends to mean the Temple at Jerusalem

[the dauer]

The babylonians conquered Judah for a time and exiled many of the Jewish people to other lands. They were a super power, like the assyrians before them. Judah was overtaken by them for a time, and then became its own after a while. Read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity_of_Judah

[JesusDiedForU]

(edited to be nice)
Babylon is what is now Iraq.
(A rabbi I met this summer was the man who danced a Torah scroll in Saddam's Palace. It was a Balvi.)
destruction of Jerusalem tends to mean the Temple at Jerusalem
The Babylon talked about in Jeremiah 50 and 51 and Revelation 18 is not ancient Babylon located in modern day Iraq.

[JesusDiedForU]

There must be quite a number of Jews living in Babylon because God gives them dirrection to "Flee Babylon" so they are not caught in the destruction.

[the dauer]

They were living in Babylon. Judah was in the Babylonian Empire at the time. Babylon contained them. Did you read the link I gave you?

[JesusDiedForU]

They were living in Babylon. Judah was in the Babylonian Empire at the time. Babylon contained them. Did you read the link I gave you?
I read your link and it did not even mention Jeremiah 50 and 51. The Babylon of these chapters is a future one... that is why it is also spoken of in the book of Revelation... (the following is from a paper I wrote last year)

“Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!” (Rev. 18:2). Revelation and various other chapters in the Bible picture one of the most powerful and wealthiest empires on earth. The Bible states that Babylon is destroyed by a nation from the north and will never be inhabited again. Babylon is an empire that is huge in manufacturing and is so important for trading that merchants will say when she is gone, “no one will buy our goods anymore” (Rev.18:11). From the literal view, one may think that the ancient Babylon, is the Babylon described in the in these chapters. However, this is not the case for ancient Babylon because it was never destroyed and people still occupy it. Overall, old Babylon and future Babylon are described differently.

[Colours]

Now how does that compare to other races such as Chinese or Indian. Also I must point out that all the Jews even in America will return to Israel.... God's word demands it.

you mean to tell me my asian jew buddy and his adopted family are going to pick up and go back to israel? :p :rolleyes:

[Colours]

what is in christianity for americans, if were just sinners, from which the jews must flee?

[JesusDiedForU]

you mean to tell me my asian jew buddy and his adopted family are going to pick up and go back to israel? :p :rolleyes:
Well over the majority of the Jews will return to Israel out of America. Why? Because of a nuclear threat that will cause all nationalities to go to their homeland or somewhere out of the U.S. God stated that once the Jews were kicked out and scattered amonst the gentiles that He would return them to their land and they would all be regathered before He would return.

[JesusDiedForU]

you mean to tell me my asian jew buddy and his adopted family are going to pick up and go back to israel? :p :rolleyes:
Stop thinking in the boundaries of men but rather in the boundaries of God... where there are no boundaries.

[heron]

Do we Scots get to go back home too?

[the dauer]

Jesus D, I didn't give that to you because it made a specific reference to those passages. I gave it to you because it explained the historical tumult. Just because a person says something that doesn't come true about a place doesn't mean that it will come true about some other place. I think most people would find that idea a little bit difficult to accept. He could also have been speaking in grandiose terms for the specific temporary benefit, that is comfort, of the people around him.

Dauer

[JesusDiedForU]

Jesus D, I didn't give that to you because it made a specific reference to those passages. I gave it to you because it explained the historical tumult. Just because a person says something that doesn't come true about a place doesn't mean that it will come true about some other place. I think most people would find that idea a little bit difficult to accept. He could also have been speaking in grandiose terms for the specific temporary benefit, that is comfort, of the people around him.

Dauer
The Babylon spoken of had not even came to existance when it was written about. For you see, the Babylon spoken of in Jeremiah 50 and 51 and Revelation 18 is described completely different than the ancient Babylon located today in Iraq. This Babylon is not acient Iraq nor modern day Iraq. However, Babylon is the name given to a future nation that is the land of mingled people that is rich, powerful, and the policeman of the world.

[JesusDiedForU]

Do we Scots get to go back home too?
Wherever you feel safe outside of America

[the dauer]

Jesus D,

Ancient Babylon was rich and powerful. It was a place of mixed people, because its tactic was to displace the people it conquered. And it policed all of the world that was relevant to Israel.

I want to give you a scenario. In this scenario I'm in New York. I'm standing on a soap box in Times Square. I'm saying, "America is a cesspool of filth. There is garbage everywhere. And nobody cares about anyone but themselves! This country is going down. It attacks the innocent. Woe to you, oh America. Your foundation is built on the corpses of the conquered, helpless natives. God will smite thee."

Now, I wasn't really talking about America in this scenario. I was talking about a future place. It doesn't exist yet. It won't exist for thousands of years. But when it does, everyone will know that this place is the real America, and it wasn't some other place that was called America.

Dauer

[JesusDiedForU]

Jesus D,

Ancient Babylon was rich and powerful. It was a place of mixed people, because its tactic was to displace the people it conquered. And it policed all of the world that was relevant to Israel.

I want to give you a scenario. In this scenario I'm in New York. I'm standing on a soap box in Times Square. I'm saying, "America is a cesspool of filth. There is garbage everywhere. And nobody cares about anyone but themselves! This country is going down. It attacks the innocent. Woe to you, oh America. Your foundation is built on the corpses of the conquered, helpless natives. God will smite thee."

Now, I wasn't really talking about America in this scenario. I was talking about a future place. It doesn't exist yet. It won't exist for thousands of years. But when it does, everyone will know that this place is the real America, and it wasn't some other place that was called America.

Dauer

Chapter 4 – A Future Babylon in the Old Testament

Babylon as a city and nation is perhaps the most mentioned gentile city/state/nation in the Bible. Only those cities in Israel, such as Jerusalem receive greater mention. There are approximately 359 direct references to the name Babylon in the Old Testament. Of these references, many are simply tied to historical accounts of events in past history. However, the 2 major prophets of the Old Testament, Isaiah and Jeremiah received from God information about a future Babylon yet to come. This future Babylon is separate and distinct from the Babylon of their day.

The message of the prophets is that a latter-day Babylon would arise that would carry on the ‘spirit’ of the old Babylon. Hence, these two prophets present significant data concerning the identity of the future Babylon and its destiny. The prophets explain what will happen to this later Babylon along with data on who will be involved, where it will take place, when and how, along with why it takes place. These two prophets account for more than 80 direct references to this future city/state/nation. 64 of those are found in 2 chapters of Jeremiah. Those chapters are chapters 50 and 51. Isaiah accounts for 2 dozen more in chapters 13, 14, 18 and 47.

These chapters provide a substantial insight into what happens to this latter-day Babylon of the future. There are "identification markers" to identify this city/state/nation. For us today, it is hard to realize that 2,500 years ago society was organized differently. In those days, society developed around the notion of city/state/nations. A major city controlled a region around itself thereby making the city a capital for that region. If the city was powerful enough, it might also make other nearby cities subject to its power and control thereby creating pseudo-colonies or vassal states so to speak. It was rare for a major city to become so dominant that it controlled whole continents or large regions of continents. But the city was the dominant feature in the way society organized. It was the capital of an ‘empire’ and seldom did it contain cities of rival size or power. Today, things are different. Nations in general have several if not many cities, especially large countries.

In this chapter we will explore the significant details surrounding this latter-day Babylon. We will explore the data to help us discover its identity, who are the antagonists, the events themselves, the results, and also why God causes these events to occur.

Jeremiah and Isaiah both report many characteristics that help us to recognize who this new Babylon is, if indeed we are living in the latter days of the prophetic timetable. In this chapter we will refer to these identifying characteristics as identification markers…(I.D. markers) and I.D. data points. We will focus on determining what nation of today fits the descriptions given by Isaiah and Jeremiah. We will also show linkage to the Apostle John’s description of this same Babylon in two chapters of his Revelation…Chapters 17 & 18.

In addition to determining the identity, we will attempt to identify who is involved in causing the destruction of this future Babylon. We will also explore the events themselves, and the descriptions of those events. We will also examine the results and present to you the facts as to why God orders the destruction of this future Babylon. As you read on, I believe you will find the results to be shocking and sobering all at the same time.

The future-Babylon prophecies of Isaiah and Jeremiah have over the centuries been misunderstood and misapplied. Until recently, many comment- ators considered many of the prophecies to have already occurred. It does seem that some of the predicted results do apply to the ancient Babylon. Those results speak of Babylon becoming a desert, where desert animals live and no man resides there. In reality, ancient Babylon—the city, has been deserted for nearly a thousand years. It did NOT occur in the manner described in the future prophecies! Furthermore, the old national empire of Babylon has remained inhabited by man, yet the prophecies speak of no habitation for the nation/state as well as the city. Additionally, the events in question indicate that the demise of this Babylon will occur in … one…that’s 1…1 hour. Yes, that is 60 minutes of time…for complete annihilation of not just a city but also a city/state/nation. That never occurred for ancient Babylon. She just slowly dissolved into nothingness. Therefore, the prophecies of Isaiah and Jeremiah are indeed still for the future and we will explain in detail just why this is so.

In addition to the mistaken view that the prophecies of Isaiah and Jeremiah were fulfilled already against ancient Babylon, there are those that believe that ancient Babylon will be rebuilt and receive final destruction as described by the prophets. This has been a recent popular theory. For a while many conservative prophecy scholars agreed on this…as Iraq and Saddam Hussein seemed to grow into a military power in the days before Desert Storm. How ironic it is that perhaps ancient Babylon’s attempted resurgence was stopped by the future Babylon, during the war in 1991. There are many problems with those views about a rebuilt Babylon. The biggest stumbling block that is so obvious, is that in future Babylon, most of the world’s Jews will be residing there. At the close of this century, and with the dawn of a new millenium just around the corner, a rebuilt Iraq is not going to be a logical place for most of the world’s Jews to immigrate to on their own. The Jewish aspect invalidates this recent popular theory still held by some conservative scholars. There are many more elements that destroy the notion of a rebuilt Babylon, but as you will see by the end of this book, Iraq could not fit most of the requirements for being the future Babylon.

... ... ... ... ...

The Key Passages to be Examined with Brief Descriptions:



Jeremiah (Jer.) 50



verses 1-2: The announcement of destruction

verse 3: The details begin

verses 4-5: The timing for this future event in the prophetic timetable

verses 4-8: Regarding Jewish settlers in Babylon

verse 9: God’s announcement of judgment on Babylon

verses 9-10: More details

verse 11: Reasons for the judgment

verses 12-13: Results of the judgment

verses 14-16: Description of the destruction—the attack

verses 17-18: Prior Divine Judgments on Israel

verse 19: Israel restored to God’s favor

verse 20: Timing details again

verses 21-43: Babylon I.D. markers amid the descriptions

verses 44-46: Aftermath of Babylon’s demise



Jeremiah Chapter 51



verses 1-5: God’s announcement of judgment against Babylon

verse 6: Warning to Jews in Babylon to evacuate that city/nation

verse 7: Reason for God’s indictment and judgment on Babylon

verse 8: Mercy is suggested and divine healing?

verse 9: Babylon rejects mercy and healing!

verses 9-10: Judgment reaffirmed

verse 11: Divine summons to go to war against Babylon

verses 12-58: Details of the judgment

v. 45…key phrase spoken by God… "Come out her, My people."

see also Revelation chapter 18:4; also Isaiah 48:20, Jer. 51:6

along with Jer. 50:8 & 28

v. 49…Babylon is determined to be responsible for Israel’s casualties

v. 53…key phrase… "even though Babylon should ascend into the heavens"

verses 59-64: Conclusion



Isaiah Chapter 13: Oracle against Babylon



verses 1-2: Announcement & Timing of Event

verse 3: The Executioners of Divine Judgment: "My Righteous Ones"

verses 4-22: Details of the Judgment

verses 4 - 8… The battle

verses 9 - 16… Resulting effects

verses 17 - 22… More effects



Isaiah Chapter 14: Israel Reacts to Babylon’s Demise



verses 4-21…give the details of the results/and reactions



Isaiah Chapter 18: The Timing of the Destruction



verses 1, 2, 3, & 7: I.D. Markers about Babylon



Isaiah Chapter 47: Lament for Babylon

verses 1-15: I.D. markers about Babylon’s identity



Isaiah Chapter 48: God’s advisory to Israel

verses 14 – 22: Warning to Jews

verse 20: Specific warning to Jews to "flee" or evacuate.

[JesusDiedForU]

If the Babylon of these chapters is acient Babylon, then when was it destroyed in ONE hour's time and do people still inhabit it?

[the dauer]

Because the prophets couldn't see the future. They were saying what they believed, or what they believed would be most helpful for the people to hear, about Babylon.

[JesusDiedForU]

Because the prophets couldn't see the future. They were saying what they believed, or what they believed would be most helpful for the people to hear, about Babylon.
Then prophets weren't really prophets according to you. And you never answered my questions:

If the Babylon of these chapters is acient Babylon, then when was it destroyed in ONE hour's time and do people still inhabit it?

[the dauer]

Prophets aren't really prophets to me, if by prophets you mean oracles.

My answer to your question is that it doesn't have to be. The words of Jeremiah don't have to be accurate, they don't have to come true. He's a man writing a book that gives us a feel for the history of the time, but is by no means a teller of exactly how things did or will happen.

Dauer

[JesusDiedForU]

Prophets aren't really prophets to me, if by prophets you mean oracles.

My answer to your question is that it doesn't have to be. The words of Jeremiah don't have to be accurate, they don't have to come true. He's a man writing a book that gives us a feel for the history of the time, but is by no means a teller of exactly how things did or will happen.

Dauer
Yet Ezekiel predicted exactly how the Jews would return to Israel in detail. Could man predict the future, without error, alone?

[Colours]

maybe. why not?

[JesusDiedForU]

maybe. why not?
The odds are highly doubtful especially when the event happens 2500 years down the road from when it was written.

[Colours]

Actually, the odds of a completely vague prediction miraculously coming true arent that bad..

[JesusDiedForU]

Actually, the odds of a completely vague prediction miraculously coming true arent that bad..
See you didn't read my post well... You read it vaguely. I sad prophecies of the future IN DETAIL.

[JesusDiedForU]

Here is what the Bible predicts about the Jews...


*The Jews would return to Israel (1948).

*The exact order the Jews would reclaim the land.
Judah first (1948)
Jerusalem Second (1967)

*That when the Jews return to Israel, they would be one nation with one ruler.
Note: Before the Jews were kicked out of Israel, it was divided into two nations with two rulers.

*Israel would be surrounded by enemies...They are

*Israel would have one of the strongest armies in the world...They do

*The Eastern Gate in Jerusalem will remain closed untill Christ walks through it. Despite several attempts, over 400 years, no one has walked through nor open the Gate.

*Many others> (http://www.100prophecies.org/page3.htm (http://www.100prophecies.org/page3.htm))

[Colours]

see, other people's interpretations don't help anything.

[JesusDiedForU]

see, other people's interpretations don't help anything.
It's clearly stated in the Bible... would you like me to give you the dirrect verse?

[Colours]

yeah

[JesusDiedForU]

yeah
*The Jews would return to Israel (1948).

Genesis 28:10-15
Jacob saw a vision of Israel's future (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/genesis_28_10.htm)

Deuteronomy 30:3-5
The fortunes of the Jews would be restored (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/deuteronomy_30_3.htm)

Isaiah 27:12-13
God promised to restore the Jews (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/isaiah_27_12.htm)

Isaiah 43:5-6
Isaiah foretold of the worldwide return of Jews to Israel (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/isaiah_43_5.htm)

Jeremiah 23:3-6
The Messiah will appear after the Jews return to Israel (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/jeremiah_23_3.htm)

Jeremiah 32:36-37
The Jews would survive Babylonian rule and return home (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/jeremiah_32_36.htm)

Jeremiah 32:37-41
The Jews would return to Israel (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/jeremiah_32_37.htm)

Ezekiel 20:34
Ezekiel said the Jews would return to Israel (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/ezekiel_20_34.htm)

Ezekiel 34:13
The Jews would return to "their own land" (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/ezekiel_34_13.htm)

Ezekiel 36:24
Israel would be re-gathered (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/ezekiel_36_24.htm)

Amos 9:14-15
Jacob's descendants would regain control of Israel (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/amos_9_14.htm)

Zechariah 8:7-8
Zechariah prophesied the Jews return to Jerusalem (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/zechariah_8_7.htm)


Ezekiel 37

*The exact order the Jews would reclaim the land.
Judah first (1948)
Jerusalem Second (1967)

-Zechariah 12:7

*That when the Jews return to Israel, they would be one nation with one ruler.
Note: Before the Jews were kicked out of Israel, it was divided into two nations with two rulers.

-Ezekiel 37:21,22

*Israel would have one of the strongest armies in the world...They do
*The Eastern Gate in Jerusalem will remain closed untill Christ walks through it. Despite several attempts, over 400 years, no one has walked through nor open the Gate.

-Ezekiel 44:1-3


Good Overview> http://www.gotquestions.org/end-times-Israel.html

[the dauer]

Jesus... Instead of giving a number of "interpretations" with the sources cited, why don't you just let the sources speak for themselves? Quote for us the sources instead of the interpretations.

Dauer

[JesusDiedForU]

Jesus... Instead of giving a number of "interpretations" with the sources cited, why don't you just let the sources speak for themselves? Quote for us the sources instead of the interpretations.

Dauer
Well if you click on the "interpretation" it will actually take you to a website with the actual verse and a detailed explanation of the verse : )

[the dauer]

I'm not interested in that, J. That's just more interpretation, more bells and whistles. And it directs me off site. If the text is really a prophecy, we'll all recognize it as one when it's presented in the context of the rest of the bible, with only a few of your own brief words at the end saying, "See, this really is a prophecy." We are after all living in these times.

Dauer

[JesusDiedForU]

I'm not interested in that, J. That's just more interpretation, more bells and whistles. And it directs me off site. If the text is really a prophecy, we'll all recognize it as one when it's presented in the context of the rest of the bible, with only a few of your own brief words at the end saying, "See, this really is a prophecy." We are after all living in these times.

Dauer
The verses are on the upper right of the webpage...

But I will just assume that it is to hard to refute the truth. Especially when it is happening before your very eyes.

I gave you the text. I even gave you professional interpretations of the the texts. These passages are clear to the point and the only way a person cannot see that is if they do not look at it at all.

If you want to see these passages in context I know a great site:

www.biblegateway.com (http://www.biblegateway.com)

[the dauer]

Jesus, I'm not interested in interpretation. You didn't simply give me professional interpretation. You gave me biased interpretation from your pov. If you really want to prove your point, just C&P the passages alone, without interpretation. If you don't, it only stands to reason that you don't think the passages can stand on their own without interpretation, as you have not yet supplied that.

Dauer

[JesusDiedForU]

Jesus, I'm not interested in interpretation. You didn't simply give me professional interpretation. You gave me biased interpretation from your pov. If you really want to prove your point, just C&P the passages alone, without interpretation. If you don't, it only stands to reason that you don't think the passages can stand on their own without interpretation, as you have not yet supplied that.

Dauer

-Keep in mind you can still click on the paraphrase for professional commentary and additional information. Remember, everyone has a bias, it is just a matter if you agree with the bias or not.



*The Jews would return to Israel (1948).

Genesis 28:10-15
Jacob saw a vision of Israel's future (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/genesis_28_10.htm)

10
Jacob left Beersheba and set out for Haran.
11
When he reached a certain place, he stopped for the night because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones there, he put it under his head and lay down to sleep.
12
He had a dream in which he saw a stairway[1] resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.
13
There above it[2] stood the LORD, and he said: "I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying.
14
Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring.
15
I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you."


Deuteronomy 30:3-5
The fortunes of the Jews would be restored (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/deuteronomy_30_3.htm)

3
then the LORD your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you.
4
Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the LORD your God will gather you and bring you back.
5
He will bring you to the land that belonged to your fathers, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers.



Isaiah 27:12-13
God promised to restore the Jews (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/isaiah_27_12.htm)

12
In that day the LORD will thresh from the flowing Euphrates[1] to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, O Israelites, will be gathered up one by one.
13
And in that day a great trumpet will sound. Those who were perishing in Assyria and those who were exiled in Egypt will come and worship the LORD on the holy mountain in Jerusalem.



Isaiah 43:5-6
Isaiah foretold of the worldwide return of Jews to Israel (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/isaiah_43_5.htm)

Isaiah 43
5
Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west.
6
I will say to the north, `Give them up!' and to the south, `Do not hold them back.' Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth--


Jeremiah 23:3-6
The Messiah will appear after the Jews return to Israel (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/jeremiah_23_3.htm)

3
"I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number.
4
I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing," declares the LORD.
5
"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will raise up to David[1] a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.
6
In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness.


Jeremiah 32:36-37
The Jews would survive Babylonian rule and return home (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/jeremiah_32_36.htm)
36
"You are saying about this city, `By the sword, famine and plague it will be handed over to the king of Babylon'; but this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says:
37
I will surely gather them from all the lands where I banish them in my furious anger and great wrath; I will bring them back to this place and let them live in safety.


Jeremiah 32:37-41
The Jews would return to Israel (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/jeremiah_32_37.htm)


37
I will surely gather them from all the lands where I banish them in my furious anger and great wrath; I will bring them back to this place and let them live in safety.
38
They will be my people, and I will be their God.
39
I will give them singleness of heart and action, so that they will always fear me for their own good and the good of their children after them.
40
I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me.
41
I will rejoice in doing them good and will assuredly plant them in this land with all my heart and soul.


Ezekiel 20:34
Ezekiel said the Jews would return to Israel (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/ezekiel_20_34.htm)

34
I will bring you from the nations and gather you from the countries where you have been scattered--with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with outpoured wrath.



Ezekiel 34:13
The Jews would return to "their own land" (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/ezekiel_34_13.htm)
13
I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land.


Ezekiel 36:24
Israel would be re-gathered (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/ezekiel_36_24.htm)

24
"`For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.



Amos 9:14-15
Jacob's descendants would regain control of Israel (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/amos_9_14.htm)


14
I will bring back my exiled[1] people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15
I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them," says the LORD your God.



Zechariah 8:7-8
Zechariah prophesied the Jews return to Jerusalem (http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/zechariah_8_7.htm)


7
This is what the LORD Almighty says: "I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west.
8
I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God."

[the dauer]

Remember, everyone has a bias, it is just a matter if you agree with the bias or not.

This I completely agree with, however some biases are much more obvious than others. It's not an even playing field. Thank you for posting actual translations of the texts.

Can you explain how these historical documents relate to our present time? I see no relation.

Dauer

[JesusDiedForU]

This I completely agree with, however some biases are much more obvious than others. It's not an even playing field. Thank you for posting actual translations of the texts.

Can you explain how these historical documents relate to our present time? I see no relation.

Dauer



THE DECLARATION OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL May 14, 1948


http://r-campbell34.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/israel.gif



The return of the Jews to Israel is the key to Bible prophecy. Most other endtime prophecies depend on the Jewish people living in Israel and not scattered amongst the Gentiles. Israel has not existed as a nation since hundreds of years before the birth of Christ.

WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO WATCH ISRAEL!

Israel is as narrow as only 60 Km. wide, and is less than 21,000 total sq. Km. (About the same size as New Jersey or Vancouver Island) However, despite its small size, Israel is often the Center of World attention

[the dauer]

Problem is that Israel as we know it today is a secular state, meaning it couldn't fulfill prophecy. Not to mention the fact that it just gave up some of its land.

Myself personally, I don't believe in prophecy, and I supported giving up that land in the name of peace.

The other problem is that the Jews of the world today will not accept a king. They're generally too liberal, and even when they're not, they're too divided. Moshiach, you know, simply means annointed one, which is a term for a leader, like Joshua or David or Cyrus.

So you still haven't shown how the prophecies relate to today. Israel is the center of world attention because of the interest three religions have in it, and not for any other reason.

Dauer

[JesusDiedForU]

Problem is that Israel as we know it today is a secular state, meaning it couldn't fulfill prophecy. Not to mention the fact that it just gave up some of its land.

Myself personally, I don't believe in prophecy, and I supported giving up that land in the name of peace.

The other problem is that the Jews of the world today will not accept a king. They're generally too liberal, and even when they're not, they're too divided. Moshiach, you know, simply means annointed one, which is a term for a leader, like Joshua or David or Cyrus.

So you still haven't shown how the prophecies relate to today. Israel is the center of world attention because of the interest three religions have in it, and not for any other reason.



Dauer

What matters is that they physically returned. Tell me: Was there even an Israel 100 years ago? Are there Jews living in Israel and are more returning to the reoccupied land?

You probably do not believe in the prophecies because you know little about them. Centuries ago the Jewish people knew and believed the prophecies but it is the new jews reject them.

"The other problem is that the Jews of the world today will not accept a king." What are you talking about... Israel has a prime minister.

Your problem, like the majority of the world, is that you simply do not know the prophecies. So it seems strange and to unblieveable to you. In the years that lie ahead the God of the Bible will be doing great wonders in the land of Israel. There will be peace in the Middle East before we die. My advice to you is: Stop thinking in the boundaries of men but rather in the boundaries of God--where there are no boundaries.

[the dauer]

There were Jews physically in Israel 100 years ago. Today there are Jews leaving Israel and going to other countries like America. I've known some of them.

I do not believe in the prophecies because prophecy is an irrational belief with no basis.

A prime minister is not a king. A prime minister is an elected official. He also has to go through the knesset to get anything done. Very democratic.

If there are no boundaries in God, then God's will cannot be limited by the bible. Otherwise, you enslave God's will to the boundaries set forth in the bible.

Dauer

[JesusDiedForU]

There were Jews physically in Israel 100 years ago. Today there are Jews leaving Israel and going to other countries like America. I've known some of them.

I do not believe in the prophecies because prophecy is an irrational belief with no basis.

A prime minister is not a king. A prime minister is an elected official. He also has to go through the knesset to get anything done. Very democratic.

If there are no boundaries in God, then God's will cannot be limited by the bible. Otherwise, you enslave God's will to the boundaries set forth in the bible.

Dauer
When did the abundance of Jews return to Israel? And tell me are there more Jews leaving Israel or returning?

I have no Idea why we are defining a king and a PM... I have no idea why you brought up a king in the first place... haha

The Bible does not confine God but shows his power. Although it was written by men, it was inspired by God. We know this through prophecy. Only God can know the future in detail with a 100% accuracy. What boundaries is God "set forth in the Bible."

[JesusDiedForU]

Just thought I add...

I am in Philosophy right now and my professor says... The Jews were kicked out of Israel by the Romans almost 2000 years ago and did not exist as a state until 1948.

Take another glance at those prophecies : )

[the dauer]

When did the abundance of Jews return to Israel? And tell me are there more Jews leaving Israel or returning?

There is an abundance of Jews outside of Israel. And I don't have access to the second statistic so I won't comment.

I have no Idea why we are defining a king and a PM... I have no idea why you brought up a king in the first place... haha

Moshiach means annointed one, which is a leader. Cyrus is called moshiach, as is Joshua and David.

The Bible does not confine God but shows his power.

If the bible says, "God will do that and this and this." then it limits God only to that possible outcome. It enslaves Her.

I am in Philosophy right now and my professor says... The Jews were kicked out of Israel by the Romans almost 2000 years ago and did not exist as a state until 1948.

What does that have to do with philosophy, and why are you telling me things I already know?

[JesusDiedForU]

There is an abundance of Jews outside of Israel. And I don't have access to the second statistic so I won't comment.
-The largest amount of Jews live in Israel, the second amount of Jews live in America. The Bible states most of the Jews will return to Israel out of America.



Moshiach means annointed one, which is a leader. Cyrus is called moshiach, as is Joshua and David.
-Yeah, I have no Idea why you brought that up in the first place. What is its relevance to the conversation?



If the bible says, "God will do that and this and this." then it limits God only to that possible outcome. It enslaves Her.
-When I say "Stop looking at the boundaries of men but rather the boundaries of God" what I mean by that is when I say God is going return all the Jews to Israel and then people say "That is impossible!" and it is impossible when you think about it in a human concept but in the concept of God nothing is impossible.



What does that have to do with philosophy, and why are you telling me things I already know?[/QUOTE]
It was just a side note my professor said and it reminded me of this conversation. If you already know these events then you know that they were long written down in the Bible well before they happened.

[Colours]

"If the bible says, "God will do that and this and this." then it limits God only to that possible outcome. It enslaves Her.
-When I say "Stop looking at the boundaries of men but rather the boundaries of God" what I mean by that is when I say God is going return all the Jews to Israel and then people say "That is impossible!" and it is impossible when you think about it in a human concept but in the concept of God nothing is impossible."

in no way was that an answer to what he said.

[ShimonOmer]

The Torah doesn't say anyhting about Jesus

[JesusDiedForU]

If the bible says, "God will do that and this and this." then it limits God only to that possible outcome. It enslaves Her.
Ok let me try this again:

Yes, in a sense, God has tempory boudaries here on earth however outside of earth got has no boundaries. God will do what He said He will do on earth. What I mean by my statement is simply with God all things are possible (ie the mass majority of Jews will return to Israel.)

[Colours]

what about going to paradise after, doesnt that limit god as well?

[JesusDiedForU]

what about going to paradise after, doesnt that limit god as well?
how so?

[Colours]

i dont know just trying to make conversation :D

[JesusDiedForU]

The Torah doesn't say anyhting about JesusMay not say his name specifically... but there are descriptions of him throughout

[Kabbalist]

*The Eastern Gate in Jerusalem will remain closed untill Christ walks through it. Despite several attempts, over 400 years, no one has walked through nor open the Gate.

Actually, the Turks did destroy it.

[JesusDiedForU]

Actually, the Turks did destroy it.
Yet it still stands and no one has walked through it...


The Gate to Prophecy

Why is the Eastern Gate to the
Old City of Jerusalem
closed, and what does it have to
do with Bible prophecy?

Dr. David R. Reagan
http://www.lamblion.com/images/1999/eastern-gate-a.jpg
The Eastern Gate in the old walled city of Jerusalem has a very special place in my heart, for it was that gate which God used to open my eyes to His Prophetic Word.

The year was 1967. The occasion was the Six Day War. As the fate of the new state of Israel hung in the balance, I searched the newspapers daily for any information I could find about the war. The turning point came on June 7 when the Israeli army broke through the Lion's Gate and returned control of the ancient city of Jerusalem to the Jewish people for the first time in 1,897 years.

A Mysterious Remark

The next day I read a fascinating news account about one of the Jewish commando groups that had been involved in the assault on the city. The article stated that some members of the group had suggested catching the Jordanian defenders of the city off guard by blowing open the sealed Eastern Gate. But the leader of the group, an Orthodox Jew, had vehemently protested the idea, stating that "the Eastern Gate can be opened only when the Messiah comes."

That statement caught my eye. I wondered what the fellow was talking about. I knew nothing about the Eastern Gate except that it was the only gate of the city that led directly onto the Temple Mount. I was not aware that it was sealed, nor did I know that its opening was in any way biblically linked to the return of the Messiah.

A Remarkable Prophecy

I decided to do some research on the matter, and that decision initiated my study of Bible prophecy. I had been attending church for 30 years, but like most Christians, I knew nothing about Bible prophecy. The topic was generally ignored by the preachers in the church I grew up in.

My concordance quickly directed me to the passage that the Orthodox Jew had alluded to. I found it in Ezekiel 44. The context is a supernatural tour the Lord is giving Ezekiel of the future Millennial Temple (40:1-3).

In chapter 43 the Lord gives Ezekiel a vision of God's glory entering the Millennial Temple from the east, through the Eastern Gate. The Lord then says to Ezekiel: "Son of Man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of my feet where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever" (43:7).

The Lord then reveals to Ezekiel that the Eastern Gate will be closed and will not be reopened until the Messiah returns in glory (44:1-3).

A Momentous Decision

This prophecy was partially fulfilled more than 400 years ago in 1517 when the Turks conquered Jerusalem under the leadership of Suleiman the Magnificent. He commanded that the city's ancient walls be rebuilt, and in the midst of this rebuilding project, for some unknown reason, he ordered that the Eastern Gate be sealed up with stones.

Legends abound as to why Suleiman closed the Gate. The most believable one is that while the walls were being rebuilt, a rumor swept Jerusalem that the Messiah was coming. Suleiman called together some Jewish rabbis and asked them to tell him about the Messiah. They described the Messiah as a great military leader who would be sent by God from the east. He would enter the Eastern Gate and liberate the city from foreign control.

Suleiman then decided to put an end to Jewish hopes by ordering the Eastern Gate sealed. He also put a Muslim cemetery in front of the Gate, believing that no Jewish holy man would defile himself by walking through a Muslim cemetery.

A Prophetic Symbol

The Gate has remained sealed since that time. The Muslim cemetery still blocks the entrance. The old walled city has eight gates, and the Eastern Gate, and it alone, is sealed — just as prophesied in Ezekiel 44. The world would call that an "amazing coincidence." I call it a "God-incidence."

The Eastern Gate is proof positive that the Bible is the Word of God. Its sealing is clear evidence that we are living in the end times. The Gate awaits the return of the Messiah. Then and only then, will it be opened.

[ShimonOmer]

Right

[Colours]

or perhaps its pure coincidence? Even if prophecies are fulfilled, this doesnt mean God is good, or a loving God

[JesusDiedForU]

or perhaps its pure coincidence? Even if prophecies are fulfilled, this doesnt mean God is good, or a loving God
It confirms the Bible as the word of God which in turn show that He is a loving God. However, even if He wasn't a loving God we know He is the true God based on the fulfilled prophecies.

[Colours]

whats the initiative for worshipping a not so loving god?

[JesusDiedForU]

whats the initiative for worshipping a not so loving god?
How can you say that God is not loving when He came to earth in the flesh just to feel our pain?

[Colours]

he was the cause of the pain, in the first place

[JesusDiedForU]

he was the cause of the pain, in the first place
The cause of the pain was evil. It was the rebellion towards God. We are part of that rebellion.

[Colours]

pff...if god told me not to eat an apple, i wouldnt eat it. plain and simple. im not responsible.

[campbell34]

pff...if god told me not to eat an apple, i wouldnt eat it. plain and simple. im not responsible.
If God told you, that you needed to be Born Again, would you?

[ShimonOmer]

The cause of the pain was evil. It was the rebellion towards God. We are part of that rebellion.

That's ridiculous. To impy that there is ANYTHING seperate from G-d is blasphemous and denies the omnipotence and omnipresence of G-d. You say that evil is the cause of pain. What is the cause of evil? The answer: G-d. He made everything, and he is the cause of everything that happens, even pain.

[JesusDiedForU]

That's ridiculous. To impy that there is ANYTHING seperate from G-d is blasphemous and denies the omnipotence and omnipresence of G-d. You say that evil is the cause of pain. What is the cause of evil? The answer: G-d. He made everything, and he is the cause of everything that happens, even pain.
God created beings with free will that chose evil. Sin is what seperates us from God. Whosoever says that they are without sin is a liar and there is no truth in them. If there is no such thing as sin why did the Jews practice animal sacrifice as the covering of sin and now the Jews no longer do such a practice. If Jews are no longer doing animal sacrifices, what is covering their sin?

[Quest_techie]

144,000, we're still way off from that.....

[IntenseHeat]

what ever is jews,christians or moslems all 3 book are full of quackery.

[Quest_techie]

pff...if god told me not to eat an apple, i wouldnt eat it. plain and simple. im not responsible.

even if you were completly innocent, i.e. no distinction between good and evil and a serpent who frankly does know good from evil and is capable of the latter is tempting you?


you have the benefits, you pay the price, you have a sense of good v. evil.....

[Colours]

i dont get your question. If an allmighty god told me not do something, i wouldnt do it.

[ShimonOmer]

I never said sin doesn't exist, and I won't say it now. I will say that sin doesn't "seperate" you from G-d, as there's no such thing as "seperate from G-d"
It's more like a relationship... every time you sin, it hurts your relationship with G-d, and it's harder- though not impossible- to communicate with him, to "see" him in the world and have his protection and blessings, etc.

[JesusDiedForU]

If an allmighty god told me not do something, i wouldnt do it.
But if God told you that you needed to be Born Again, would you?

[IntenseHeat]

The fuuny part is no one have seen him since TV was invented or the film camera.

[Colours]

But if God told you that you needed to be Born Again, would you?

im not totally sure what born again means

[drumminmama]

Born right the first time.
Born again sounds sort of sick and kinky. crawl back in and start over?

[the dauer]

You mean like rebirthing? I've heard of that. It sounds intense. Not sure it's something I'd like to try. A bit much.

Dauer

[JesusDiedForU]

It isn't a physical rebirth but a spiritual one.

[the dauer]

Rebirthing is spiritual. Check it out:

http://www.breathaware.com/rebirthing.html

Is it something like that?

[Colours]

are you kidding around? hes talking about finding God again, being reborn.

[the dauer]

I know what he's talking about. Yes, I'm just joshing him. Actually, if what he means is taken as plainly as you say, and all of the Christological concepts are removed, then I have been reborn. I once was lost, but now I'm found, a liberal, non-fundamentalist, agnostic, experientialist, Jew who can still see. Of course I don't think I was ever lost. I think I was always exactly where I was supposed to be. But my experience of the world was subtly different.

Dauer

[JesusDiedForU]

I know what he's talking about. Yes, I'm just joshing him. Actually, if what he means is taken as plainly as you say, and all of the Christological concepts are removed, then I have been reborn. I once was lost, but now I'm found, a liberal, non-fundamentalist, agnostic, experientialist, Jew who can still see. Of course I don't think I was ever lost. I think I was always exactly where I was supposed to be. But my experience of the world was subtly different.

Dauer
Do you still do animal sacrifices?

[the dauer]

Nope. Since the Temple is gone, all Jews give offerings of their lips. The theological understanding is that God would supply a way to draw close to Him at all times, and it is actually explained in the books of the prophets, that God does not really desire sacrifices, and what He does want is acts of lovingkindness and prayer. None of this really matters much to me since I don't consider the Torah uniquely divine, but it probably matters more to you. Actually, if I did still do animal sacrifices, that would be extremely fundamentalist.

Dauer

[drumminmama]

do you still require that women not speak in your house of worship, or at least not teach the superior beings, men?

[I have leprosy]

Are you asking about female rabbis?

[JesusDiedForU]

Nope. Since the Temple is gone, all Jews give offerings of their lips. The theological understanding is that God would supply a way to draw close to Him at all times, and it is actually explained in the books of the prophets, that God does not really desire sacrifices, and what He does want is acts of lovingkindness and prayer. None of this really matters much to me since I don't consider the Torah uniquely divine, but it probably matters more to you. Actually, if I did still do animal sacrifices, that would be extremely fundamentalist.

Dauer
What authority has given the Jews the right to decide what God would want them to do, especially when He already commanded them to do animal sacrifices? Also, it does not require the Temple to do animal sacrifices because they offered sacrifices to God prior to the Temple. By whose authority did the they decide to drop that practice?

[JesusDiedForU]

do you still require that women not speak in your house of worship, or at least not teach the superior beings, men?
Women can do anything except be the head of the church and that is because the order of who sinned. Eve first, Adam second--a woman was the first to be decieved.

[the dauer]

Jesus,

You have to understand I don't believe that God ever commanded the Jews to do anything. I view the Torah as a historical document, albeit one I consider sacred. But according to the Jewish religion, we have this passage:

"1. Moses received the Torah from Sinai and gave it over to Joshua. Joshua gave it over to the Elders, the Elders to the Prophets, and the Prophets gave it over to the Men of the Great Assembly. They [the Men of the Great Assembly] would always say these three things: Be cautious in judgement. Establish many pupils. And make a safety fence around the Torah."

http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=2165

And it keeps being given down through the generations of all the people in the Talmud. This is referring to the Oral Torah, which was handed down with the Torah according to traditional Judaism. The Torah cannot be understood without it according to that view. And it allows a person to make interpretations for new situations as they arise.

You come across as very ignorant when you come to the Jewish board and tell us we are wrong based on your religion's beliefs. If you want to have a civil discussion, please conduct yourself like a mature adult.

Dauer

[myrtje]

Why is God so eager on fear? In a lot of those prophecies it says God wants His people to fear Him. Its about His wrath. Why is that? It says He wants them to fear, so they wont turn away from him, but if it were me, thats exactly what i would do. Fear is the opposite of love, i doubt you can truly love what you truly fear.

[the dauer]

yirat hashem might be better translated as awe, like what you feel when you come to the edge of a cliff after hiking and get that view and it just hits you.

Dauer