I Got A Few Questions

[Stiff_Bizquette]

ok well american christianity is really off i think. here are some questions i have.

1.) Why do we condemn satan when not even the Arch Angel Michael would not do this?

2.) Why do we look at homosexuality so harshly but pardon adultry when homosexuality is condemned a few times and adultry is one of the ten commandments?

3.) Why do most christians not read there bible at all it seems? i dont read mine near enough but i know more than any of my sunday school teachers, this is not good.

4.) How have we come up with 21 THOUSAND different denominations in this ONE religion?

5.) How can we have so many different versions of a bible in just one language?

6.) Why have parts of our bible ben cut out? Why do the protestants not inclue all of the books of the bible?

These are just some of the major questions im sure someone will ask why are christians hypocrites and that is common sense, they are humans and i have yet to meet a person w/o a pinch of hypocracy.

[Epiphany]

ok well american christianity is really off i think. here are some questions i have.

1.) Why do we condemn satan when not even the Arch Angel Michael would not do this?

It's not that Michael didn't condem satan, it's that he didn't dare speak slander against him. All he said in the end was, "I rebuke you in the name of the Lord". He didn't say, "I accuse you", he didn't say, "You were wrong because", all he had to say was that he rebuked satan in the name of the Lord. When satan was tempting Jesus while he was fasting and praying, instead of Jesus making accusations, he said three times, "It is written".

2.) Why do we look at homosexuality so harshly but pardon adultry when homosexuality is condemned a few times and adultry is one of the ten commandments?

Not sure.... you can't really condem people of one sin, and let another pass by the wayside. A sin is a sin regardless. Those who walk in truth know that anything that God says not to do is wrong, and they don't condem one sin over another


3.) Why do most christians not read there bible at all it seems? i dont read mine near enough but i know more than any of my sunday school teachers, this is not good.

Several religious people claim to know God, but don't read his word. I find it interesting that one would even be allowed to teach God's word without knowing the word themsevles.

4.) How have we come up with 21 THOUSAND different denominations in this ONE religion?

Religious factions are due to the will of man. Every one wants to put their own perspective on what God says. They want to add their own traditions, their own rules, and their own laws. People drive themselves further and further away from God in their own personal quest rather than following God's will.

5.) How can we have so many different versions of a bible in just one language?
The truest form of the Bible is probably the Hebrew-Greek edition. It comes with it's own translation dictionary and nothing has been watered down, or changed.

6.) Why have parts of our bible ben cut out? Why do the protestants not inclue all of the books of the bible?

Revelation 22:18 says, "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city which are described in this book".



These are just some of the major questions im sure someone will ask why are christians hypocrites and that is common sense, they are humans and i have yet to meet a person w/o a pinch of hypocracy.
People make these assumptions that someone is not a christian if their not perfect. They assume that a christian never sins, stays quiet, and never does anything wrong. Humans aren't perfect. We are all born with sin. However, even though everyone will continue to make mistakes, a true christian knows when their wrong, and they try not to continue the behavoirs of their past. James 1:22 says, "Do not merely listen to the word, and so decieve yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forget what he looks like". Though a christian will never be perfect, you will know the true ones by their nature.

[POPthree13]

I don't think stiff bizquette is assuming all christians are perfect. I think the statements reflect that the overall product of the religion has some very serious issues. I have been to countless churches throughout the years and I do find many enlightened people who are searching for a relationship with God and trying to live a good life based on the teachings of Jesus. But I would agree that the overwhelming majority of those i have met are judgemental, pious, and act as if they have the moral advantage - even though they more or less just pay lip service to the religion without truly addressing issues like greed, judgmentalism, acceptance and really being a good human within their own lives.

Condemn satan? I agree this is too prevalent in the church. I say, judge not, and God makes the rain fall ont he unjust and just alike, and love your enemy... anyone can love their friends. A kind word turns away anger but a harsh word... blah blah blah... Love in all things, this is the enemy of our enemies.

The adultry issue vs. homosexuality is a good point I think. I'll have to remembver that one. Judge not...

The bible is a great source of spiritual enlightenment. There are many others too. If you are going to be a teacher your responsibility to know what you speak is ten fold.

Spirituality is individual. The true goal of any religion is to foster a relationship with God. There is no such thing as two relationships that are the same. So, there are as many paths to God as there are people on this planet. That is not only the reason we have so many denominations it is also the reason we have so many religions.

The reason there are so many versions of the bible and so many books which vary from variety to variety is that the bible is not a book. It is a collection of many books. These books have a variety of sources (which are written in different languages at different times in history). This book as a collection is almost surely the most translated, studied, and researched volumes on earth.

The bible itself never proclained it's infallibility or it's uneditability. The Roman church did that to make the religion seem more concrete. Many hundreds of relevant works were left out. God does not only talkt o a few and he did not stop talkign 2000 years ago. I would like to see more writing, more resources. I think the bible is only a starting point for someone who is REALLY interested in discovering what God is all about.

PS: The book John is reffering to in Revaltion 22:18 is the book of revelation. The bible did not exist for another 200 years. I am sure he was aware that throughout history well-meaning religious folks had produced dozens if not hundreds of variant copies of scriptures. When the bible was assembled they picked and chose what fit together nicely and dropped the rest. I am sure John was attempting to scare those hwo might edit his text into leaving it alone.

[ChiefCowpie]

1. cuz archangel michael knows that what you condemn persists and what you love evolves

2. true christians embrace homosexuality...nuff said

3. its easier kicking back and listening to a preacher tell you what to think

4. because folks didn't listen to james

5. language is slippery stuff...especially when it starts getting translated from ancient dialects that aren't spoken anymore

6. emperor constantine wanted to make christianity a state religion so he cut out parts that impeded this and fabricated or emphasized parts that helped this angle

[Stiff_Bizquette]

2. true christians embrace homosexuality...nuff saidi think u got some of the modern twist of christianity in you.

4. because folks didn't listen to jameslmfao i love that one and must agree.

6. emperor constantine wanted to make christianity a state religion so he cut out parts that impeded this and fabricated or emphasized parts that helped this anglety, didnt know that gonna have to do some research

I don't think stiff bizquette is assuming all christians are perfectcorrect

nice responses so far.

[YankeesChic88]

Well I think a lot of answers to the questions involve personal interpretation, and we could probably disagree about the answers for hours. But if I understood correctly in a class I had, the answer to #6 is that the Protestants accepted only the original books of the Bible that were around before the destruction of the Jerusalem, while people of other religions(ex. Catholics) accepted others(ex. Judith, 1&2 Maccabees, Tobit, Wisdom, Baruch, Sirach) that were found after the destruction. I think that's the correct answer to your question, if not, many apologies!! :-D

[Alsharad]

2. true christians embrace homosexuality...nuff saidUmmm... no. True Christians embrace homosexuals, while recognizing, in love, that the lifestyle is sinful.


5. language is slippery stuff...especially when it starts getting translated from ancient dialects that aren't spoken anymoreLike what... Greek? Languages do change, but the basics generally do not. Even English, with all it's variations follows a set of rules regarding subject/object placement, verb voices (no English verb has a middle voice, for example), and more. The words change and the definitions change, yes, but in a time when communication was NOT lightning fast or global, changes would happen far more slowly. So is it difficult? Only in that you have to have a good knowledge of history in order to understand the cultural and historical circumstances surrounding the text. Impossibly tricky? Not at all. In fact, there is an entire country that still speaks Greek. :) To the best of my knowledge, they can read the new testament in the original greek and not have TOO much difficulty. However, I am neither linguist nor Greek scholar, so I freely admit I could be way off.

6. emperor constantine wanted to make christianity a state religion so he cut out parts that impeded this and fabricated or emphasized parts that helped this angleThat is pure speculation without a shred of historical evidence. You can point out the circumstances and then say "Wouldn't it make sense that they 'edit' the Scriptures to reinforce their views and strengthen their political position?" However, there is no documentation which backs up this assertion. It is pure opinion with no basis in fact. It is loaded with presuppositions concerning the nature of men and smacks of conspiracy theory. The thing is, history disagrees with you.

Marcion was excommunicated in 144 AD. Why? Because he claimed that Jesus was not God and that none of the four NT Gospels (save a version of Luke that he had edited) were authoritative. The church, by 144 at the *latest*, already considered the Gospels (and the Pauline epistles) to be authoritative. This is over 100 years BEFORE Constantine. Still, the Church held several doctrines to be absolute. The most important - Jesus is GOD.

The history of the early church disagrees with you, Chief. Also note, it is just as pheasible (actually greatly moreso) that the Niceans simply clarified what most already believed. There were some books that were in dispute, yes. Some of them made it, some did not. But the four NT Gospels and the Pauline Epistles were ALWAYS a part of the scripture. They were accepted from the beginning as authoritative and inspired. So did Constantine and his Nicean "cronies" edit the NT to strengthen their own position? Not likely. In fact, at the council of Nicea, only about 1/3 of the NT was up for debate. The 4 NT Gospels, Acts and the Pauline letters were already 'in'.

There is a lot of good information here:

http://www.ntcanon.org/

Give it a look.

[Lilyrayne]

It's not the Christianity that's off. It's the Christians. Humans aren't perfect and were never meant to be, not even Christians. So it doesn't matter what religion it is, you are going to find crackpots and crackpratices in all of them!

[Brocktoon]

ok well american christianity is really off i think. here are some questions i have.

1.) Why do we condemn satan when not even the Arch Angel Michael would not do this?
Im not sure I follow you on this one. God alone will condemn Satan to the eternal abyss.
That being said, we can probably safely assume 'condoning' Satan or even listening to him is a 'bad idea'.

2.) Why do we look at homosexuality so harshly but pardon adultry when homosexuality is condemned a few times and adultry is one of the ten commandments?
As a Nation, you do NOT have a harsh condemnation of homosexuality. Few other nations on earth (and in history of the planet) have as free and open a homosexual lifestyle as the USA.
Gays are extremely popular on television and gays are elected to many offices.

Adultery is much more prevalent and certainly more destructive on the whole (because children are often innocent victims)
I agree more Christians should be worried about that.

3.) Why do most christians not read there bible at all it seems? i dont read mine near enough but i know more than any of my sunday school teachers, this is not good.
I agree with you entirely on this. .. although Ive never met your sunday school teachers.
Many who do read their Bible often make simplistic assumptions and simply read (ie James) with a legalistic understanding and no ability to see how it meshes or dovetails with other scriptures (i.e. Galatians)

4.) How have we come up with 21 THOUSAND different denominations in this ONE religion?
Its probably closer to 211, you could put those into about 21 categories.
Its not necessarily a 'bad thing'.
Different cultural backgrounds can worship against those backdrops.

5.) How can we have so many different versions of a bible in just one language?
Because translators are responsible and know that there is no 'word-for-word' way to translate every word.
They can give you a 'strict' interpretation or one that is 'flexible' and gives the overall meaning.

Addition to that - the english language has changed (degenerated) in the last 400 years.
Bible translators have to keep up with that.

Again, this is not a 'bad thing' at all.

6.) Why have parts of our bible ben cut out? Why do the protestants not inclue all of the books of the bible?
The Apocrypha is not necessarily considered 'on par' with the other books, even in Catholic teachings.
If you want to read Apocrypha books then feel free.
The Gospel will still remain the Gospel.

These are just some of the major questions im sure someone will ask why are christians hypocrites and that is common sense, they are humans and i have yet to meet a person w/o a pinch of hypocracy.
Christians are hypocrites. To become a Christian you are asked to admit that.
This is WHY WE ARE Christians.
Because we acknowledge and seek to repent of hypocrisy - which is part of human nature, sadly.

Many 'Hypocrite hunters' do not choose to acknowledge they are hypocrites as much as anyone else.

Unfortunately, the word 'Hypocrite' has been so misused, abused over the last three decades that it has no real meaning anymore.

[Stiff_Bizquette]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefCowpie

2. true christians embrace homosexuality...nuff said

Ummm... no. True Christians embrace homosexuals, while recognizing, in love, that the lifestyle is sinful.embracing would mean accepting. love would attempt to correct the flaws. love while it covers a multitude of sins does not allow blatant sinning when it knows the right and wrong ass u stated it is sinfull.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiff_Bizquette
ok well american christianity is really off i think. here are some questions i have.

1.) Why do we condemn satan when not even the Arch Angel Michael would not do this?

Im not sure I follow you on this one. God alone will condemn Satan to the eternal abyss.
That being said, we can probably safely assume 'condoning' Satan or even listening to him is a 'bad idea'.
[/quote
i never said listening to him wasnt a bad idea. i said we should not condemn someone that not even God's Arch Angel would not condemn. God created him he is allowed to do so, man is creation and we are a stupid creation when compared to satan.

[quote]
Quote:
2.) Why do we look at homosexuality so harshly but pardon adultry when homosexuality is condemned a few times and adultry is one of the ten commandments?
As a Nation, you do NOT have a harsh condemnation of homosexuality. Few other nations on earth (and in history of the planet) have as free and open a homosexual lifestyle as the USA.
Gays are extremely popular on television and gays are elected to many offices.
once again i think that is something the USA wants us to think and everyone else, but name a sports figure that is gay(male) and is still in his career. Name a gay president. do we even have ne gay senators or representatives? any gay vise presidents? any gay marriages allowed? why are we making such a big deal about gays preaching but we let adulterer's preach (to mary a divorced woman or be divorced and remary is adultry*)


Quote:
5.) How can we have so many different versions of a bible in just one language?
Because translators are responsible and know that there is no 'word-for-word' way to translate every word.
They can give you a 'strict' interpretation or one that is 'flexible' and gives the overall meaning.i mean things like there is a verse on my mind it originaly said "he that spares the rod hates the child" now in most bibles it says "he that spares the rod spoils the child. Biiiiiiiig difference there. we have bibles that dont offend certain sexes also.


Quote:
4.) How have we come up with 21 THOUSAND different denominations in this ONE religion?
Its probably closer to 211, you could put those into about 21 categories.
Its not necessarily a 'bad thing'.
Different cultural backgrounds can worship against those backdrops.
no not 211, 21 thousand. it is a bad thing and a different culture should not have such an affect on the religion that it needs to change its denomination. majority of these are people that agreed with no one so went and made a church of there own.

[ChiefCowpie]

didnt know that gonna have to do some research


The Players

Alexander of Alexandria: Bishop of Alexandria. Said Christ was the 'same substance' as the Father. Convened a council of bishops from Egypt and Libya to anathematize Arius and excommunicate him and his followers.

Athanasius: served as a deacon at the Council of Nicaea. He was strongly opposed to Arianism. He helped the Council decide against Arianism, and was later exiled. Also see Arianism (http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/arius.htm)

Constantine: Emperor of Rome. He called the Council of Nicaea to settle the dispute over Arianism. He was the Emperor who recognized Christianity as a legal religion and later tried to make it the state religion.

Eusubius, Bishop of Nicomedia and a supporter of Arius, would later baptize Constantine. Contrary to popular Christian myth, Constantine was a pagan and was baptized on his deathbed. He also never really made Christianity a state religion because Christians couldn't even agree on anything. The power grab of the pagan Trinitarians would be completed after his death.

From Brittanica.com,

"In his theological interpretation of the idea of God, Arius was interested in maintaining a formal understanding of the oneness of God. In defense of the oneness of God, he was obliged to dispute the sameness of essence of the Son and the Holy Spirit with God the Father, as stressed by the theologians of the Neoplatonic influenced Alexandrian school. From the outset, the controversy between both parties took place upon the common basis of the Napoleonic concept of substance, which was foreign to the New Testament itself. It is no wonder that the continuation of the dispute on the basis of the metaphysics of substance likewise led to concepts that have no foundation in the New Testament--such as the question of the sameness of essence (homoousia) or similarity of essence (homoiousia) of the divine persons."

It was 325 A.D. at Nicaea that the doctrine of the Trinity was rammed through by Athanasius (using Mafia tactics) in a Council that was overseen by the Emperor Constantine who, ironically enough, thought of himself as God-incarnate. (Constantine was a Sun Worshiper and only made an official conversion to "Christianity" on his deathbed). Roman coins of the period still portrayed the image of the sun God despite the alleged sudden adoption/conversion of Christianity. Many of those present at the Council Of Nicaea were opposed the doctrine of the Trinity, siding with Arius. Even after the Nicene Creed, the Trinity was still hotly debated for decades and centuries after.

A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE CHURCH AFTER NICAEA 325 AD - Constantine convenes the Council of Nicaea in order to develop a statement of faith that can unify the church. The Nicene Creed is written, declaring that "the Father and the Son are of the same substance" (homoousios). Emperor Constantine who was also the high priest of the pagan religion of the Unconquered Sun presided over this council.

[Brocktoon]

I agree that Constantine is given way too much credit as some kind of UberChristian Convert who single-handedly switched Rome from Pagan to Christians.

Constantine aside, Christianity was well on its way to establishing itself and growing in leaps and bounds.

Its pretty clear Constantine was converting to Christianity and this is far more than some 'myth'. You simply dont arrange Councils and endorse positions unless you have some conversion (or at least HE believed he was converted).

But all that aside. Here is the opinion which you added to the end of your post:

"It was 325 A.D. at Nicaea that the doctrine of the Trinity was rammed through by Athanasius (using Mafia tactics) ..."

I noticed you say 'Rammed' which implies it was rejected or resisted by the majority?
You also credit Athanasius with doing this using 'Mafia Tactics'.
Please explain why you imagine this happening and how?

Do you imagine the scriptures were changed so that homoousia would now appear as the clear truth over homoiousia?

[TheProphetoftheWord]

Listen to the whisper of arrogance in the speech present.

Nearly all argue the interpretations of man as if they were themselves the teachings of Jesus. Read the words and feel their meaning, but see Jesus in all his splendor, for the life of Jesus was itself the lesson you must learn to enter the Church of God as a Christian.



It is pleasing to hear such wisdom from one so young. “Christians, not Christianity”. You will provide shelter during the coming storm.