"The Spiritual Evolution of Animals"

[Scholar_Warrior]

oh shit! I'm thinkin' about being more vegetarian....


http://www.stuartwilde.com/Articles/SW_articles_spiritual_animals.htm#read

[luvndrumn]

And what of the lion or the cheetah or the wolf? They certainly are animals that prey on other animals. The whale, the shark, the blue fish. The hawk, the eagle, the falcon.

The People revered the animals and prayed (funny how "pray" and "prey" are pronounced the same, eh?) to the animal's spirit once they killed it for food, thanking it for the sacrifice. And they let nothing go to waste. Necessity, practicality, and respect(?).

I don't know about the group soul versus the individual soul, but I do believe animals can talk. It's us dumb-assed humans that can't talk back properly. And we have the balls to think our brain is best! Phah!

[HoneySuckleBlue]

The bible actually has a list of stuff we are'nt supposed to eat.

I thought when we ate something we accumulated it's soul like the water droplet running down the window on a rainy day, getting bigger and gaining more momentum as it grows...

...but I definately agree people are neurotic creatures.

[Scholar_Warrior]

I don't really think I can be vegetarian again, but I think I may reduce my meat intake; at least commercially raised meat.

anyway, chickens are pretty stupid animals. if they can talk it's pretty simple thoughts they convey, like danger! and probably not many other thoughts are expressed. I used to raise chickens, so I know they are not too bright.

as for the Bible, I have eliminated pork and shell fish from my diet, tho' they are two of my favourites as far as taste goes.

[HoneySuckleBlue]

We grew up not eating any of the 'unclean' animals, but I do like smoked pork chops once or twice a month...and I looove crab legs but I only eat them mebbe once a year.

I luv dumb chickens:D they are sooo very useful for the bug control! They taste good on the grill too...

Does that mean I have a stoopid collective chicken spirit?

[nirgal]

Chickens are cool with me;)

I am what I ate.

[luvndrumn]

Just don't start scratching in the front yard.:p


BUAWK!:D

[Scholar_Warrior]

Your collective chicken spirit is stoopid, Kim!!! *nails her right between the boobs with a waterballoon and runs>>>>>>>>>*

[HoneySuckleBlue]

Oh! Now my white tank top is all wet!!

*does best vacant blonde impression*

Your gonna get it GIL!!

[nirgal]

Now now us blondes can hear the wind....

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid10/pa189d92214055ab8434b0eae98aa94b3/fe01bb6f.jpg

[HoneySuckleBlue]

...musta beent he bean burritos:p

[nirgal]

...and a mighty wind it was!

[nirgal]

Mr Butch the cat (highly evolved) sets off the propane detector sometimes...while sitting by the door waiting to go out

[Scholar_Warrior]

are suggesting that Mr. Butch the cat can fart at will?

[nirgal]

It's quite possible.
I awoke one night to hear him speaking outside of the window......He said:
Jedidiah, Jedidiah, Hello, Jedidiah....... I opened the screen and looked out and he was looking straight up at me
...... it might be random, since I don't know anyone named Jedidiah

He talks all the time, a few english words, but he definately communicates. I live with Parrots, too.
Ever listen to crow language? very intricate......

Beware! the cat farts at will!

[Moominpappa]

Why does everyone have it in for Will - and if the cat's farting at him, I'm definately not sitting next to him.


Hmm - The Chicken Collective - thats got to be a band somewhere - and it would definately be .....a co-op

Chill out to the drum-stick and bass sound of the Chicken Collective featuring KFC - (bear with me folks - I've had to be serious for the last month, I'm not at my best - I can make much worse puns than this!)

Animals - in my opinion the next step up on the evolutionary ladder - at least they only kill from necessity - cats excepted, but then what would expect from an animal that makes up the name of Old Testament prophets.

And the winner of Wet T-shirt 2004 in the Big Green Field is................

[nirgal]

The Chicken Collective
Now appearing nightly in The Big Green Field
Wet T shirt contest at midnight, followed by creamed Corn wrestling and Banshee riding
Cold Beer and Munchies provided by the Farting Cat.
Monkey Sex 'till dawn.......

[Scholar_Warrior]

.... and after dawn, mud baths for everyone! :)

[paintedjames]

actually, back on topic a little, in Acts it explains the new covenent...somewhere Peter says, Lo, Lord I have never eaten anything common...and the Lord said Peter, behold, i have cast this net upon all the animals upon the earth...who are you to say what is common...now eat...

but the whole thing about the split hooves (diet of the animal) and such i beleive to be true anyway in the sence of health....as eating pork will give you high blood pressure...but it is perhaps OK to eat a little...as i do from time to time...
basiccally it's like this....
animal has split hoof-don't eat
animal has no split, but eats of the flesh-don't eat
animal with no split and eats of the grain...for us (cows, buffalo, ect)

does anyone know where in the bible it speaks of these matters...i mean where it "lists" the "unclean" animals...? I have read the split hoof thing but forgot where twas...

[HoneySuckleBlue]

Leviticus 11 it starts in verse 3 with the hooves an whutnot....I read the whole deal behind that was those animals ate rotting and nasty stuff, they were the cleaner upers of the earth.

*Offers PF a complimentary monkey for some hot monkey luvin'*

[paintedjames]

thank you m'dear...i do thank you kindly...i've been looking for that verse for some time now...

yes...shellfish are big clearner upers of the sea as crabs, and as the pigs are to the land (right?)...THE main ones...like limestone to a pristine vermont creek

[paintedjames]

i don't like monkeys but i like gorillas

[HoneySuckleBlue]

All behold the power of Googling:)

I hav'nt seen any gorillas round these parts lately...I still have my ballerina gorilla halloween costume though, I bet with enough creamed corn we could entice somebody into putting it on for you;)

[Moominpappa]

So to follow the logic - non-split hoofs and vegtarian makes Gorilla's good eating. And how do we draw the line when it comes to birds - southern fried penguin party buckets has got my juices going, but how does one prepare a vulture - surely the shellfish\pig equivalent.

That's the problem when you to take a "how-to run a semi-nomadic eastern-Mediterranean pre-Christian society survival manual" too seriously - it can't readily cater for those animals out-side the experiences of the men writing it. (Sorry - vultures are a bad example - they would have been known in Israel\Palestine - lets go for Condor's) So modern apologists, starting from the position that the ancient prophets were writing down God's word, then tie themselves into knots trying to explain how these other animals fit in. And don't even mention dinosaurs And in doing so they fail to realise how they undermine their own case in the eyes of the undecided. Push too far and you start being accused of being a heretic, or an agent of Satan deliberately sent to tempt the faith of true believers.

Two Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door earlier this week, and brought me glad tidings of some specially chosen words of God. I politely said no thank you, but in my heart I wanted to say yes - if you read them in the original aramaic\ancient hebrew, and then explain the subtle nuances of the language as it would have been understood at the time, with metaphors and allusions expounded upon and explained. Not some version that had been passed down by word of mouth, mis-translated through various dialects before being garbled into greek which was mashed into latin, revised, revisited, re-phrased by men on a Diet of Worms, butchered into High German, revamped into Middle English just in time for the introduction of the printing press when it then became a poltical pawn for the protestant powers to prove their divine right, and then taken to the "New World" to be set in stone before being brought back to my door-step 400 years later.

Yes, I wanted to shout, (although the children were already abed), there are some very good words in the bible. But I'm a fellow way traveller, I think, with Nirgal and Luvndrum - I'll take the good bits and drop the dead dogma. I will love my fellow man, I will worship the one true God, (no thank-you, I don't need a name for him\her\it - the only true holy trinity),and, to slightly amend holy christian scripture, I believe that wherever one or more is gathered in God's name, that is a place of worship.

(Kim - apologies for blowing off steam in the field - its been five weeks now without regular access to the internet at home, I've just spent an hour putting down everything that's been tried to put things right, and then saw it garbled and lost by the dial-up server, and I did badly in my exams, plus I was told afterwards that I've got to re-do a whole year as the two modules I've passed, (I need to get six out of 14 possibles), have now been dropped from the course - I is not a happy Moomin!):eek:

[paintedjames]

well, Jack, gorillas don't even have hooves in the first place...obviously gorillas are a supreme animal and should be treated with reverence and respect...

i like how you comicly expound "heretical" viewpoints hereticlly, doesn't really do much good for the greater good

yes the bible isn't a perfect book, but if you lose all the preconceived notions which you profess so profussly, you would just be able to sit down and read it and let IT move you, for God truely does talk with you when you read the bible, and all your questioning is ceased..
tis' true that I am a TaoJewHinduChristianZorastrianBuddhist (did i forget one?), becuase i see all these marvelous books written by all these wonderful people, and i think to myself, what a wonderful world...

i really can't understand where all the confusion is either, you should be thankful the loving God wants you to know what is clean unto you, and what is poisen (and what can be proven). take it for what it's worth to you though, and you will live a happy person (though perhaps a bit shadowed in Maya)

[Moominpappa]

Concede you gorilla's, swop you giraffes & lama's.

Funnily enough, I don't feel at all confused - I believe there is a spark of god in everything, (but then I've been hanging around with Quakers for most of my adult life - Moominmamma is one). I am really in awe of the wonder of God - I just personally don't need the bible or any church hierarchy to stand in the way and cloud the vision.

I'm glad someone concedes the bible isn't perfect when putting forward an educated and cogent defense of their beliefs. I concede that a lot of the timeless concepts are just as relevant as most of today's self-help manual. Would I read the bible again from cover to cover - last time was with the eyes of a teenager who slowly became more and more disllusioned with inconsistancy after inconsistancy. Time has taught me that that is what happens when human beings are involved - each one of us is normally a walking mass of contradictions - but that rather belies the belief that the authors were merely acting as vessels for the word of god.

As far as the language thing is concerned, when I was at University in the distant mists of time, studying politics, I took courses on diplomacy and international law. Many international bodies, like the UN, had copies of their founding treaty in the major languages of diplomacy, plus a few others as expedient. There would always be one language that would be specified as definative should there be any dispute over the meaning of a particular clause - somethings just don't translate. I can't help but believe that far too many people assume that English is the definative language of the bible. Thats quite a pre-conception.

Well I don't want to convert anyone to anything, so I'm just going to wait until the end and find out what the right answer is. In the meantime I too will enjoy the many wonderful people who I meet, both here and in the "real" world.

And thank God.

MMP

[paintedjames]

Well, thank you for keeping this conversation civil, as I should try to do more. I guess I just think and write and DO so fast, I have little time for courteseys.
I will try as I get older and wiser to see things with patience and acceptance, and live a much more complete and happy person.

Well, a big point I forgot to mentin is that this particular verse we've been discussing is only in refrence to 4 legged beasts of the earth, where the split hooves are concerned. Do lambs have split hooves? Hmm...been wondering if veal is supposed to give such a bad heartburn?
YES truley there are many inconsistincies, as the Bible was compiled by a bunch of half wit hooligans at the Council of Carthage, nearly what, 600 years after the death of Christ...so yeah, there is a lot of room for error. People say the Bible was written by the Devil, but this is absurd. Perhaps however, though, the Book was compiled by the Devil...meant to be confusing and contradictory for the mere purpose of disallusionment...seems pretty convincing considering how fucked up this world has become, and how WE have stood idly by and takin the stick up the ass.

I stand by the BIble with conviciton though, becasue as we all should know, the Lord is in control of both the Good and the evil, although free will is involved, destiny ultimitley has already been decided, and that is Good will always prevail because of the timeless splendid glory of It's nature, while evil is always attached to some worldy though or desire, and becomes feathers fluttering in the void, soon to become dust...Good is the WOrd, and the Word was Good.

[HoneySuckleBlue]

Still I'm not sure what I want to add to this...and I've been thinking on it for days. I know I do want to commend you boys for not loosing the meaning of this thread in personal attacks, it happens way to often and is very tiring.

All views are relevant even if they contradict our own.

I agree with what has been said about the laws being guidelines for healthy living in a time an place that is not like our own. Like just about everything in life to understand the laws and why they were made helps us to know when and how to break the rules properly.

Thus Understanding is next to Godliness:)

I also read the bible, like i read Aesops fables and many other parables and stories that shed light on the human condition and feel that anything approached with the right attitude can be learned from.

[showmet]

My friend always used to say, "Nothing with a face."
"But," I would reply, "you can get them with faces already taken off."
That told him.

[paintedjames]

if that's what you call personal attacks, i have a lot of anger management classes to attend (te he). sorry for being uncivil though, (te he)

and yes, lambs do have split hooves, i found out. funny how ya don't even need a bible to tell ya what is healthy for you and what isn't...it just is kind of common sence.

if you eat pork, you'll get high blood pressure (and fat), not to mentino just feel unhealthy just eating the stuff
if you eat veal, you'll get bad heartburn
if you eat shellfish, you could quite possibly die or at least get the sickest you've ever been in your life
eat tuna, makeral, shark, ect (fish without scales, as is also said in the bible), you'll get mercury poisening
it's just good sence but i am thankful that somebody took the time to figure it all out for me

[HoneySuckleBlue]

No, no, no dear boy, what I meant was there were no personal attacks and was happy about this.

That people can't figure out what is good to eat and what is not on their own dumfounds me.

Sorry, I'm just one of those stubborn people who likes to figure it our on me own...where's the fun in having all the answers??

[nirgal]

I figure It's ok to eat anything you want. We are all going to be food for something else anyway. Besides, who am I anyway? My body is a collection of living cells, bacteria, fungi, viruses, mold all living, dying, eating and reproducing continously (hmmm so there is orgasms going on all the time, somewhere?!)... even my DNA has viral codes integrated into it, sort of a farm or a cooperative ... It's not mine, I'm just using it as a base to work from while I'm here....
It's a group effort :p

Hang on I'm driving, this time :D

[HoneySuckleBlue]

You really are what you eat I suppose...*looks around suprised*

[Scholar_Warrior]

so I shouldn't be insulted if someone calls me a Pussy!?

[paintedjames]

You really are what you eat I suppose...*looks around suprised*
lol, you have a way of cracking


me up :)


yeah, well anyway, it's just that some things are unhealthy for you, but as the new covenant with Peter (if you trust this) says, actualy 2 or 3 times in there, as i said earlier, in the Acts thingy yeah, so more matza to ya!

[HoneySuckleBlue]

:)

Man I looove me some matzos, my favorite is the egg and onion and was the closest thing to white bread we ever got when I was a kid.

My parents were very strict when I was growing up about what we could eat.

[paintedjames]

wait matza is veal isn't it?

or are they veal-balls ?

[HoneySuckleBlue]

I googled for Matza, matzah and matzo and came up with the cracker used for days of unleavened bread...
http://www.jewschool.com/matzah.gif

I'm kinda curious now...what would you use for keyword...cow balls?

[nirgal]

Those would be Mountain Oysters.....

Matzah Balls are like dumplings... dump 'em in the chicken soup.
My Jewish ex motherinlaw made some good ones :sunglasse

[HoneySuckleBlue]

What language is that...I tried the hebrew thesarus, haha, but all I got where those strange characters...I shoulda seen that coming.

[nirgal]

For future reference :p
http://www.funlinked.com/testicle/recipe.html

[HoneySuckleBlue]

Baaahaaa!!! SWingin' beef!!! ROTF

[Moominpappa]

Well, thank you for keeping this conversation civil, as I should try to do more. I guess I just think and write and DO so fast, I have little time for courteseys.
I will try as I get older and wiser to see things with patience and acceptance, and live a much more complete and happy person.


Painted, (or is it James) - just wanted to say thank-you right back, for respecting the vibe in the field -perhaps you are further along the path you seek than you thought. Must warn you though - wisdom doesn't come with age in my experience, (unless you're Nirgal). and sometimes ignorance is bliss.

In respect,
Moominpappa

[themnax]

i make knadlach myself fairly often. you can get already ground up matzoe meal in the stores in a lot of places now a days. i remember when i was little they didn't but now they all seem to.

all you need is an egg and a little oil and some water and the matzah meal.

which you just kind of mash togather till it's all blended in and doesn't stick to the side of the bowl you're mixing it in. then take a little glob like about three tablespoons size and roll it arround in your palms like you do cley or fishballs or something to make it spherical and drop it in the boiling chicken broth.

=^^=
.../\...

[paintedjames]

i am a completley different person today, and every day hereafter. i have had a few very profound reveleaitons reveiled...a few quite many veils dropped, if you will. yes, to overzealously adhere to a religion perpetuated by hearsay alterations prevaded by corrupted dogma will only zealously adhere perpetuated dogma to ones psyche, and breed contempt for the very people they are supposed to be loving, instead of judging ...much better to just be invested in the present, (and the future is already here)...than to be subconsciouncly dwelling on an egotistical pedistol, as if better than the Gentile's or as defined in the dicitonary, 'country dwellers'(and it's their job as it were, mercenaryes oh wait thats right har har missionaries

we have been finding that this corporate slang even prevades the very websters dictionary defining these supposed "great" books,
yes, the dictionary is tainted with prejudism and labels (are the two different ) (funny how Judism is in the word prejudism, eh?)


Painted, (or is it James) - just wanted to say thank-you right back, for respecting the vibe in the field -perhaps you are further along the path you seek than you thought. Must warn you though - wisdom doesn't come with age in my experience, (unless you're Nirgal). and sometimes ignorance is bliss.

In respect,
Moominpappa