"holes in your brain"

[chris]

the most common argument from ppl i hear at school against LSD is that it puts "holes in your brain"

does anyone have anything to offer about this? is it just some stupid rumor abotu acid like how ppl say acid is stored in ur spine? is there any evidence abuot acid killing brain cells?

what about the other psychedelics, do they put holes in your brain?

[derrick]

have all of these people gather around in a group, and make a big sign reading "ignorance is bliss" -- have them hold it, and take a group picture, with them smiling.

and tell them if they believe LSD does that, then they should believe that sperm causes brain damage for any male producing it.

[EllisDTripp]

About the only drug I know of that "puts holes in your brain" would be MPTP, and that's hardly a recreational drug. And even then, the "holes" aren't actually holes, but destroyed cells in a specific part of the brain.

LSD doesn't kill brain cells, accumulate in your spine (or any other body part), cause birth defects, or damage chromosomes.

[mixmaster]

In actuality, speaking from a purely toxicological standpoint, LSD is probably the safest drug you can do, specifically because of the incredibly small dosages involved, generally from 50 to 200 micrograms. At a level that small, even Cyanide probably wouldn't give you much more than a mild stomachache.
Psycologically, as we say in OZ, that is a horse of a different color!

[xaosflux]

If confronted with brain scans, one they are probally from an MDMA 'patient' and two they are not real, just have the contrast misadjusted.

[shroomman]

mixmaster...hear lots of people talk about the psychological effects...but nobody clearly explains...what has it done to you psychologically?

[Incubus]

I have a friend... or was it me... im not telling. but "they" cant talk to people in person very well because of how slow their brain is to articulate words now, they did a lot of shrooms and smoked a lot of pot. i call it stupified.

[Ocean Byrd]

Are you sure that's the cause of the speach impediment? Maybe it was preexisting...

[nimh]

lysergic rewires the brain in some ways. neurons find new paths and connect together in ways that they didnt before...that's why people say that they hear colours and see sounds

i thought it was ecstasy that made 'holes in brains" i watched a thing on oprah a couple of years ago where they were showing holey brainscans of kids who did a LOT of x

[AreYouExperienced]

Yeah, they originally said X supposedly put holes in your brain, but they later found out they "mistakenly" used crystal meth. I don't know how and where that got changed into LSD putting holes in your brain. It's like that "telephone" game that you play where you whisper something person to person around a circle of people..

[Fractual_]

actually the theory is acid allows new neurological pathways to fire and function. so supposedly you use more of your brain.

[sag aloo]

acid dont put holes in ur brain fucking plain & simple - read some medical research rATHER THAN lIstening to dickheads

[mixmaster]

Shroomman,

Regarding the LSD experience, I can only say that I would not be the person you are communicating with, but most probably one of Bushs Cabinet, (LOL), or something to that effect. In any case, my life would have been drastically different, and I mean in a bad way, not a good one. I got involved around age 17, and it changed my entire perspective on life, people, the world I exist in, the politics, everything. I have probably taken the "Good Stuff" 400 times...I am not talking about the crap that passes for LSD today-I mean real-Like 'Blue Cheer', 'Mr. Natural', 'Orange Sunshine', The famous Owsley 'Orange Barrels', 'Green Windowpane' and so on...hits ranged from 100 to 200 micrograms, and I can tell you that until you go to that level, "You ain't tripped, Man"...There is a difference between reading a travel brochure and actually winding up in that place...It is an epiphany, an unknown door opening, a new way of perceiving the world...probably the most eclectic thing you will experience, mentally speaking. Rather than dulling you, as all the anti-drug propagandists preach-it is the opposite...it increases your need for knowledge of all things. Subjects that were once mundane become fascinating, subjects once considered relevant wind up on the trash heap...However, those are MY views, not yours..it is all dependant on the individual-it affects everyone differently, generally for the better, in my opinion. I haven't taken the stuff in over 20 years because I don't need to anymore...I have gotten what I wanted out of it, and as Leary said, "It lasted for a split second and a million years, but now it's over, and it's your turn"....Mixmaster

[gnrm23]

alcohol puts holes in your brain...
(korsikov's psychosis? something bad from years of boozin' anyways...)
~
~
~
"i'll have another beer, please"

[serra]

i think that TV puts more holes in the brain than any drug ever would.

[chris]

i heard today it erodes the top of the spine killing nerves

[bradleydontpush]

that was a wonderful point. I've found that acid does really no permenant effect. Me and my friends have done a fair amount of LSD and were not really messed up at all...ok...maybe a little.

[NitrousBum]

Well, DXM can cause "holes" of sorts http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/dxm_health1.shtml.

Using LSD even a few times slightly lowers your ability to differentiate between colors. The more you use it and the more recently youve used it seems to directly correlate to how severe this condition is. It is sort of similar to HPPD apparently. It wouldnt stop me though.

[shroomman]

The chemical in "shrooms" that produces the high is c E52 alled psilocybin. When you eat mushrooms, psilocybin is converted into a chemical called psilocin. Psilocin is then absorbed into the blood stream where it is taken to the brain.

Psilocin has a chemical structure very similar to the naturally occurring neurotransmitter serotonin. Neurotransmitters are chemicals that cells in the brain (neurons) use to communicate with each other. Varying levels of serotonin will affect sleep, appetite, sensory perception, temperature regulation, pain suppression and mood.

Serotonin is taken up or absorbed by neurons at receptor sites known as the 5-HT receptors. There are various types of 5-HT receptors, but for our purpose we'll generalize. Because psilocin's chemical structure is very similar to serotonin, it is also taken up by the 5-HT receptor sites (as are many other common hallucinogens including LSD and mescaline).

After the psilocin molecules bind with the 5-HT receptor sites, little is known about what happens. As of right now, all that we know is that if the wrong molecule goes in the right receptor site, some pretty funky things happen- thus you get the effects of mushrooms. What we do know is that psilocin is NOT physically harmful to the body or brain. Psychological conditions can arise from a very profound experience, but no physical harm is done by psilocin.

In short: psilocin molecules from the mushrooms bind with serotonin receptor sites in the brain and cause the mind to do strange things… and scientists aren’t quite sure why.

[serra]

i heard today it erodes the top of the spine killing nerves

i heard today that global warming isn't real and that america truly is the land of the free.



things aren't always true, apparently.

[redgreenvines]

as any new connections grow between neurons - space is consumed.
little used braincells are sacrificed by the thousands every day to make space for the new connections.
We start with more than a billion cells there so it would work for a couple of hundred years .

LSD provides a few scary experiences and strange legends have evolved.

Holes does not explain the effect of expanded consciousness nor is it the price paid for the experience.

some of the strange new memories while entheogenized may seem unaccessible mostly due to unfamiliarity, difficulty in finding the linkages or keys to recall. They did not fall into holes, but if never recalled, eventually they will.

[charredacacia]

the only drugs which put "holes in your brain" are opiates and stimulants which temporarily shut down parts of your brain. once you are off of the drug for a while, though, those parts of the brain come back to life

[GothModernHippy]

true but you should never take hallucinogens if you have holes in your head

as for my comment on alcohol with amphedamines

alcohol thins your blood making stimulants more likely to put holes in your occipital lobe.

Juusssttt ttttrussst mememem on that one
:(

[GothModernHippy]

just call me mr. flashback

[GothModernHippy]

and opiates do not put holes in your brain they jus slow your breathing if you take to much opiates it will result in lack of oxygen that can result in braindamage but not holes

[Shaman420]

My cousin is what we like to call an acid causulty. He sounds like he has been smoking crack for 10 years and looks like it too. The only drugs he ever consumed was caffeine, acid, mushrooms, tobacco, weed, hash and opium. He really can't speak since his period of mass comsumption of these chemicals, and he doesn't do much than sit around all day and watch soap operas. Kinda sad since hes a 25 year old guy. However I use all the same drugs and more with the exception of tobacco and have had a different result, I guess its really the difference in quantity consumed that determines the severity of long term psychological affects.

[EllisDTripp]

However I use all the same drugs and more with the exception of tobacco and have had a different result, I guess its really the difference in quantity consumed that determines the severity of long term psychological affects.

Not just quantity of drugs used, but the underlying psychological makeup of the user, as well.

Some people simply SHOULD NOT take psychedelics. Anyone with a mental illness, or a strong family history of such, would be well advised to avoid LSD. Psychedelics can cause serious side effects in such people.

[LostChord]

Using LSD even a few times slightly lowers your ability to differentiate between colors. The more you use it and the more recently youve used it seems to directly correlate to how severe this condition is. It is sort of similar to HPPD apparently. It wouldnt stop me though.
I think colors are more bright and crisp.. and just so much more 'real' then they were before I ever did lsd.., but i suppose it can be different for everyone...

[BlackBillBlake]

some say it blows holes in your aura. I don't believe it, but it has been said -

[RxHEAD]

Not just quantity of drugs used, but the underlying psychological makeup of the user, as well.

Some people simply SHOULD NOT take psychedelics. Anyone with a mental illness, or a strong family history of such, would be well advised to avoid LSD. Psychedelics can cause serious side effects in such people.


This is really true. I know from experience. I mean I was always weird and all, only I did blotter acid once then it like at age 21 I think it sort of 'kicked in' my Mental Illness. Sort of like a real paranoid trip that seemed never went away.

Never have done it again since, only can not for sure say it being the reason for the trip to the Psych Ward only think it helped my Mental Illness stir up inside my brain.

So now like 10 years later I don't work anymore and the messed up thing is all the meds which are most likely worse than LSD on my brain. For some reason ever since on meds and the crazy trip I can't smoke weed any more cause it makes me paranoid bad. Only I can say I don't think I have any holes in my brain cause they have done a shit load of CAT - Scans of my brain and the Doctors have never said anything of holes being in my brain only never really thought to ask them.

Peace

[Jabbawaya]

LSD is a very very safe drug. All the negative rumors you hear about it are just rubbish.

[BlackBillBlake]

Its a fact that LSD shouldn't be taken by thoise with a history of mental illness, or who might be at risk of such. I have a freind who had life long mental problems of a serious nature triggered by it.
For most people, it is safe enough, but not everyone.

[nimh]

Its a fact that LSD shouldn't be taken by thoise with a history of mental illness, or who might be at risk of such. I have a freind who had life long mental problems of a serious nature triggered by it.
For most people, it is safe enough, but not everyone. i have to agree with you BBB. i know someone who has had mental illness triggered by the use of psychedelics. He was doing okay for a while, but for some reason took some psychedelics again, and ended up really really sick.

i also know a person who, after doing a lot of lsd and high potency pot in a short period of time, had a psychotic, delusional break that lasted for a few months. She's fine now, but doesnt go near any mind altering substances.


Some people simply SHOULD NOT take psychedelics. Anyone with a mental illness, or a strong family history of such, would be well advised to avoid LSD. Psychedelics can cause serious side effects in such people. ^^this is important and needs to be repeated. :D

[WynterFrost]

hey you only live once right?

[nimh]

yeah, but it's not much of a life if you lose your mind and cant enjoy it.

[WynterFrost]

true....

[AceAzamean]

Im not 100% on all this, but this is how 'it is' as I understand it.

LSD, does not cause any form of damage to the brain, body, or mind. In fact I've heard that LSD is actually good for your mind, in limited controled enviroments from a doctor/psych.

As for holes in the brain, I do know that alot of amphetamines cause various things to develope, always called holes but thats not what they are. They can be several different things but its safe to say that its a negatively effected area. I know that MDMA can cause those at high, frequent doses, as does PCP, special K, and other drugs that are structurally similar to those.

Mixing drugs is also a bad idea. I know that one shouldnt smoke pot on a trip drug because it tends to lead to memory problems. I know that with mushrooms especially, it leads to memory problems and to paranoia.

[LostChord]

ya smoking way too much on a trip can make it hard to remember parts of it afterwards (which isnt fun) and it increases paranoia by 100000x, trust me I know lol...

but its great during and after coming down...

but also Ive had so-so trips that got insanly intense after a bongpack..

one time lol I cleared my whole bonghead in one hit.. one breathe... my whole body felt like a big balloon (kinda made me feel like i just ate that gum in willy wonka and my body was all blown up...) it was like there was no end to where i could put the smoke/air it just kept coming in...

[eat_some_LSD]

I wouldn't bother smoking cannabis when tripping, the psychedelic's just going to overpower it. On the comedown, however, it may help "ease" you back into reality.

[EllisDTripp]

Smoking a bit of grass while waiting for a psychedelic to kick in can help mellow you out and produce a proper "set" for a productive experience, though.

[LostChord]

it all depends on the trip...

I've even smoked salvia while on acid to luanch me off into an experience... and also if your mind seems 'loud' and figgity.. and you cant get into meditation.. weed and or salvia sometimes helps me with that...

and I like to just cuasually smoke weed anyway.. so sometimes it makes me a lot more comfortable to sit back and smoke a J and relax.. or sometimes if I come out of a crazy experience and I just have a desire to smoke a lil.. even packing a bowl and taking a hit every 20-30mins..

i dont know its just a habit...

i mean if your on a strong dose the weed wouldnt be neccesary if you even remember what weed is...

[Mollyredmore]

Well, DXM can cause "holes" of sorts http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/dxm_health1.shtml.

Using LSD even a few times slightly lowers your ability to differentiate between colors. The more you use it and the more recently youve used it seems to directly correlate to how severe this condition is. It is sort of similar to HPPD apparently. It wouldnt stop me though.Where is the truth behind this. I have studied alot and eaten LSD a whole lot and never heard this. The funny thing is I am color blind and tend to not care a whole bunch about things like that. Anyway though I dont think it is true. Could be wrong though so if you can prove it please show me, im interested.

[Mollyredmore]

I think nitrous bum may truly be free-on hobo

[2cesarewild]

i mean if your on a strong dose the weed wouldnt be neccesary if you even remember what weed is...I think I've conditioned myself so much to smoking weed that even when my ego gets blown away I could probably still roll a blunt up and smoke that shit. lol...

[Mollyredmore]

ALOT of people on this thread have angered me. Let me lay it to you strait. IF you are an intelligent person with a normal functioning brain, LSD and other psychedelics will not effect you in adverse ways. They do not harm you physically so how much they effect you is pretty much up to you. One thing I have noticed is that people who have problems with psychedelics are normally uneducated, very brain damaged, stupid/retarded, or have a chemical inbalance of their own and should really know better. Any bad effects brought on by LSD or anything similar are easily mentally reversable depending pretty much on how damn sane you are. Thats my rant and it is one of the realer things you will hear about psychedelics

[2cesarewild]

While I believe that you are right about LSD and SOME other psychedelics, all drugs are slightly different, so who knows one day if there will be a psychedelic that is neurotoxic for some stupid chemistry reason.

[Mollyredmore]

I am a chemist i know dammit lol

[Mollyredmore]

Sane people are brain damage free and 99% of chems in pihkal and tihkal are completely non nuerotoxic NO certain Brain chemistry could make its toxicity change any

[2cesarewild]

Well I'm not saying that a person could change it... I'm saying a variant of a drug could. MPTP was the name of that heroin analogue that caused a parkinson's like disease after only like two uses I think?

[Mollyredmore]

YES but who in their right mind would take it
If a drug causes something like that you are going to know after a use or two. My point stands that with psychedelics being non nuerotoxic cannot cause any symptoms days or weeks after use anything that happens will happen while you are high.

[2cesarewild]

Well the scare was because they really couldn't tell til it was too late.

[EllisDTripp]

How can anyone claim that 99% of the compounds in PIHKAL are safe to use?

Only a few of them (MDMA, MDA, mescaline), have anywhere near the amount of human usage experience needed to draw a meaningful conclusion about potential long-term neurotoxicity, and a lot of them may only have been used by Shulgin and his research group once or twice.

NOBODY knows what long-term damage may be done by playing around with "research chemicals", because they simply haven't been used by enough people for a long enough period of time for any potential hazards (especially subtle, long-term ones) to make themselves apparent.

[The Flow]

Well, Ellis, isn´t this the problems with all kinds of drugs, including pharmaca?


For example, haloperidol was thought to be safe for more than 20 years, when suddenly someone found, that there may appear problems even decades after the use (so-called "late dyskinesia"). I´m wondering what researchers will find out about the psychopharmaca we use today.

Even today, some meds that are not older than 20 years seem like the stone age to me. What will future generations think about our medicine?

[Mollyredmore]

Look i gotta agree with the flow on this. I know u and I have disagreed much but, my whole love for psychedelics is based upon the fact that the government condones the use of much worse things, and thousands of them too. People take perscriptions everyday that in my mind are more of research chemicals than any psychedelic. You here about some of the horrible side effects to them. EllisDeeTripp look I have read some of your posts, and I know your smart, but I would like to correct you in the fact that I did not say 99% of those chems were safe I said Non nuerotoxic, and Shulgin himself argues this in many articles and interviews. I have attended seminars with Dr. Shulgin speaking. Clinical depression is a toxic effect caused by many drugs, many drugs that are legal as well. On T.V. you hear about all the new drugs and the crazy side effects. No psychedelics side effects will be apparent is years to come and this is because of the way they interact with our brain. the only other thing I know to say is that I personally know over four people over 65 years of age that take and have taken psychedelics for years and years and years. I am not talking about just LSD and Mescaline either. I mean all kinds of R.C.'s.

[crackforkids]

im pretty sure DXM has left some holes in my brain, i ate it WAYYYYYY to much

and the 2c-x 2x a week didnt help either