No comment from you guys about London, I see

[IronGoth]

So, are you lot chanting "Allahu Akbar!" and dancing in the streets, or trying to figure out how you're going to continue to convince people "Jihad" actually means "personal struggle" - or what?

Another blow by Dar-As-Islam against Dar-As-Haram, right lads?

Any comment at all? Hm?

[IronGoth]

Several hours, and not ONE response from you lot?

Wow.

[seamonster66]

Don't be an idiot..I doubt any muslims on this site would celebrate that

[IronGoth]

Don't be so sure. They haven't been very quick to denounce the violence, either. Only thing we've heard from em is "stay indoors! They could start fighting back!"

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

::rolls eyes:: Ever hear the expression, for the thoughts/deeds of many, judge not the whole....

Just because there is a group of extremists who misinterpret the Qu'ran does not make the entire religion of Islam or the entire world full of Muslems bad...

There are many people who misinterpret Christianity (hello Crusades!)...but does it make Christianity wrong...no...

Both religions teach peace...its just how others interpret it....so regardless of who caused the attacks on the underground today (Prayers to our brothers and sisters in London)...please do not stereotype and attack people as a whole.....there are good people in this world of all walks of life...they just never make the papers....

[IronGoth]

RE: Just because there is a group of extremists who misinterpret the Qu'ran does not make the entire religion of Islam or the entire world full of Muslems bad...

Excuse me?

Have you read the Koran?

And BTW Jesus' first act in his ministry was not to rob a caravan at swordpoint and say "believe as I do or die."

[Zoomie]

I love the way the rest of the world (people, not governments) could give two healthy shits when this happened in the US. But it's a fucking emergency when THEY get blown to hell and back...

[Random Andy]

The rest of the world didn't get blown to hell and back. It was just London. Is London the only other place you know of in the world?

There are many people who misinterpret Christianity (hello Crusades!)...but does it make Christianity wrong...no...
I disagree, I think all religion is wrong, so there. Philosophy is ok.

[IronGoth]

Spain did, as well. I can't wait for Paris to get bombed. It'll be interesting to see them NOT demand the USA goes in and kicks tail for them after all their verbal diarrhoea about peace before...

[seamonster66]

quote: I can't wait for Paris to get bombed

nevermind, you are now and idiot.

Other countries gave a lot of support after 9-11.

You and Zoomie get too involved in politics and too wrapped up in an us vs them mentatlity...these are just people going to work and getting killed, people don't deserve that no matter where they are.....

which in the case of England, is along side our troops fighting in Iraq.

[cabdirazzaq]

When a few westerners die we cry immediatly but who cares about the bombs the uk dropped upon the market places in iraq.... I am not supporting what happened but Im shour suprised over your way of judging life.

(for instance, if a) plane crashes in africa, the reporter(in sweden, I guess theres no real difference in the U.S) says: A plane crashed today in the eastern region of Libia. Two americans are reported dead, 4 germans and several other nationalities(the "unimportant" ones, such as africans, asians etc) Then she always finishes with saying : No swedes died on the plane (puhh what a relief, who cares about all those africans, atleast no swedish person died)

Perhaps I should send you a private message every time american or brittish soldiers kill innocent civilians in iraq blaming you for what they are doing???

[IronGoth]

RE: nevermind, you are now and idiot.

With the exception of France, which bleated on about how we should be into peace, America sucks, etc.

RE: When a few westerners die we cry immediatly but who cares about the bombs the uk dropped upon the market places in iraq.... I am not supporting what happened but Im shour suprised over your way of judging life.

Guerilla war sucks, doesn't it? Maybe if they wore uniforms and didn't do things like terrorism, we wouldn't have to pop every kid that makes a sudden move, because in a place like that, sometimes it really IS the six year old with the rocket launcher.

But this isn't about the US or the UK. This is about the Islamic folk here having NO COMMENT on the Jihad striking again at the corrupt Daram-Al-Harb

[seamonster66]

quote: With the exception of France, which bleated on about how we should be into peace, America sucks, etc.

And here some people say "France sucks" when it comes down to it people are stupid and their governments play them like fiddles.
I would not want to be judged as a person by what the US govt. does, maybe some people do, but they are idiots and I wouldn't be like them.

[IronGoth]

R: nd here some people say "France sucks" when it comes down to it people are stupid and their governments play them like fiddles

Er, I was IN FRANCE for two months after all this. Nearly got into a bar fight simply over my accent because some Bretonnais didn't like people from our country, never mind the near-constant lectures about our way of life.

And of course, the "rip your garbage out of our soil" spraypainted on the graves of those US servicemen who died in WWII was charming too.

I'd like to see Chirac NOT demand that Bush go in and kill on France's behalf... AGAIN. ... when the Tour Eiffel goes foom. Mind you, I don't think it will. Paris is almost half Arab anyway, and they don't want to risk bombing their own.

[seamonster66]

quote: Er, I was IN FRANCE for two months after all this. Nearly got into a bar fight simply over my accent because some Bretonnais didn't like people from our country, never mind the near-constant lectures about our way of life.

Well of course there will be those types of people, and they are assholes no doubt about it.

Imagine a French guy going into a bar somewhere stupid like Amarillo, Texas or something.

[IronGoth]

Seamonster: I never said that people here weren't unreasonable towards Frenchmen.

I'm saying that France's stated policy is not to get involved and to pooh-pooh the US. This WILL change when Marseilles or Poissy go FOOM

[IronGoth]

I'll repeat this a FOURTH TIME

Any Muslim wanna comment on this?

You're very silent on this and it's been a day or two now.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

When a few westerners die we cry immediatly but who cares about the bombs the uk dropped upon the market places in iraq.... I am not supporting what happened but Im shour suprised over your way of judging life.

(for instance, if a) plane crashes in africa, the reporter(in sweden, I guess theres no real difference in the U.S) says: A plane crashed today in the eastern region of Libia. Two americans are reported dead, 4 germans and several other nationalities(the "unimportant" ones, such as africans, asians etc) Then she always finishes with saying : No swedes died on the plane (puhh what a relief, who cares about all those africans, atleast no swedish person died)

Perhaps I should send you a private message every time american or brittish soldiers kill innocent civilians in iraq blaming you for what they are doing???
Cabdirazzaq does have a point.....

[IronGoth]

It's been SEVERAL days and STILL no response from "the religion of peace"

sigh

[stoney69]

you should get help

[seamonster66]

There really aren't many muslims on this site, goth.

[Zoomie]

Irongoth, cabdirazzaq is a Muslim. A very educated and peaceful one. But that's probably not what you're looking for, sorry.

Seamonster, WTF is your problem? I know who was killed in London, the same sort of people killed in the WTC. People going to work. We don't like the French because they are generally arrogant assholes. I couldn't care less about Paris. And I don't really care what their stance is on imperialism in Iraq.

[Meagain]

Please read the sticky at the top of this Forum titled "Please Read".

[crystalstarr]

Respect others as you would wish others to respect you.

[IronGoth]

RE: Irongoth, cabdirazzaq is a Muslim. A very educated and peaceful one. But that's probably not what you're looking for, sorry.

And he has yet to comment, has he? He's certainly seen this thread.

[IronGoth]

Meagain - I have.

I haven't spread hate. I've simply asked if any of the "religion of peace" want to comment on this tragedy. None of them do. Now, I assume it's because by their religion they are SUPPOSED to agree with it (or die) but I could be wrong.

It's amazing to me that for a supposed religion of peace and charity and understanding and tolerance there should be almost zero response from them when one of their own decides to follow the tenets of the Koran.

If you care to enlighten me as to what you have a problem with, I'd care to agree with you. I read the sticky, it talked of hurtful words, and all that.

Telling the truth (and this is not a religious truth e.g. Jesus said vs Krishna said) is NOT per se victimising anyone.

[stoney69]

you really need to get help!

[Meagain]

IG,
I tried to direct the sticky to everyone in general not anyone in particular. Usually I have no problem with most posts in the P&R Forum as I try to view arguments and discussions from both sides (I said I try, I'm sure many will disagree as to the fruits of my effort, LOL).
I posted the sticky because I have received a few compliants scince the recent London attacks and there have been a few bans issued from within this particular forum in the last few days.

The view of the truth, I find many times, is based upon the viewer. (At least that's how I see it!)

P.S. The "religion of peace" could be construed as a sarcastic remark.

Debate away!

Stoney,
Please offer something constructive to the debate next time.

[IronGoth]

Meagain - it is a sarcastic remark. I've read the Koran, and it's all kill the unbelievers, crucify the unbelievers, strike off their hands and feet, etc.

Jihad? Hello?

[Meagain]

IG,
Noted

[stoney69]

meagain, can we really get into a debate with someone with a formed opinion who's not really after a debate, but to unleash his anger on the "religion of peace" and the members representin this religion !

it'd be like muslims DEMANDIN an apology for the actions of KKK et al from all the white americans

irongoth, you have no clue about Islam or the Koran. what you claim to have read etc is what you wanted to read. if you truly wish to understand the concept of Islam and the message it represents, you'd be better off seekin it

and oh, you aint gettin a response from any "peace lovin" muslims in here until you drop the accusatory tone!

cheers

[IronGoth]

RE: meagain, can we really get into a debate with someone with a formed opinion who's not really after a debate, but to unleash his anger on the "religion of peace" and the members representin this religion !

Not true! I am more than aware that the Islamic world is responsible for great advances in mathematics, astronomy, etc. and MANY Moslem folk I know have been cultured, educated and decent people.

I just wanted to see something other than utter silence from the Moslems here regarding the DEATH of 52 people. Other words of support have poured in. Words of support are starting to trickle in from the Gulf countries now. IT'S ABOUT TIME.

RE: it'd be like muslims DEMANDIN an apology for the actions of KKK et al from all the white americans

Really? I had no clue the KKK had a jihad against Islam. You DO have the right to demand an apology, if they do. Just as I have the right to demand just what in HELL is going when when the tube system goes FOOM in my homeland, which almost killed 4 of my relatives. Dig?

RE: irongoth, you have no clue about Islam or the Koran. what you claim to have read etc is what you wanted to read.

I was given a copy of the Koran by Muslims in my home town and took the time to read it cover to cover. It was Ali's translation.

RE: if you truly wish to understand the concept of Islam and the message it represents, you'd be better off seekin it

Where? I have read the Koran - are you suggesting there's a more direct source?

RE: and oh, you aint gettin a response from any "peace lovin" muslims in here until you drop the accusatory tone!

Oh well pardon me then. Salaam al-salayakum, would you esteemed gentlemen please elaborate for me, a troubled seeker, as to what is the Islamic interpretation of the Koranic verses as transcribed by the Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) exhorting Jihad and murder?

[stoney69]

like i said, you're angry and you need a place to vent - and its all towards the muslims! may i remind you ..we still DO NOT KNOW who did it and you've formed an opinion, you've passed your verdict

thank you for acknowledgin what the muslim folks' contribution. im also glad to know you know the 'cultured, educated and decent' muslim folks ..perhaps you should get them to apologise for every terror act that's committed in their name

perhaps you should also consider gettin every media establishment in the world and the leaders of the so-called free world to apologise to the muslims for every terrorist claimin to follow islam to be declared as an ISLAMIC terrorist, ISLAMIC fundamentalist, ISLAMIC extremist etc ..we never hear about a jewish, christian, hindu etc terrorists ! that my friend, is brainwashin ..which seems to be workin quite well, wouldnt you agree ?

you want to demand an apology from the muslims ? why dont you start apologisin to them for acts committed in your name which continue on a daily basis ..with YOUR army, YOUR politicians fuckin around with their lives and that of their loved ones

basically, my message here being ..stop allowin the media and the terrorists (politicians included) from dividin us. we are all humans, regardless of our origins, color etc. it hurts us when animals are tortured ..why should it be any less for humans!

we all have a joint responsibility of savin this planet (not just our backyards!) lets not allow the camps of terrorists run it

i'd still suggest you are far from the idea of what Islam is and what the Koran says. and its not important, as long as you do not disrespect it. whats more important is that we come together with our similarities and work with our differences

crystalstarr said it best, "respect others as you would wish others to respect you"

[IronGoth]

RE: like i said, you're angry and you need a place to vent - and its all towards the muslims!

No, my friend, this is not a vent, it's a valid question. And it's gone noticeably unanswered. You STILL have not addressed the point, you've simply attacked me.

RE: may i remind you ..we still DO NOT KNOW who did it and you've formed an opinion, you've passed your verdict

Al-Qaeda have taken responsibility.

RE: thank you for acknowledgin what the muslim folks' contribution. im also glad to know you know the 'cultured, educated and decent' muslim folks ..perhaps you should get them to apologise for every terror act that's committed in their name

No, the ones I know would gladly shop the terrorist types. It's those who cover for the bomber types I worry about. My friends have NOTHING to apologize for.

RE: perhaps you should also consider gettin every media establishment in the world and the leaders of the so-called free world to apologise to the muslims for every terrorist claimin to follow islam to be declared as an ISLAMIC terrorist, ISLAMIC fundamentalist, ISLAMIC extremist etc

Of course they're islamic terrorists. They aren't terrorists fighting for anything else.

RE: ..we never hear about a jewish, christian, hindu etc terrorists ! that my friend, is brainwashin ..which seems to be workin quite well, wouldnt you agree ?

Er, IRA are "Irish" terrorists, they refer to Basque separatists fighting for the Basque cause... the FLQ were described as Quebecois terrorists...

RE: you want to demand an apology from the muslims ? why dont you start apologisin to them for acts committed in your name which continue on a daily basis ..with YOUR army, YOUR politicians fuckin around with their lives and that of their loved ones

I thought Iraq was a secular nation... Which is why the Ayatollah wanted to invade it.

RE: basically, my message here being ..stop allowin the media and the terrorists (politicians included) from dividin us. we are all humans, regardless of our origins, color etc. it hurts us when animals are tortured ..why should it be any less for humans!

Er, you're still not answering my questions.

RE: we all have a joint responsibility of savin this planet (not just our backyards!) lets not allow the camps of terrorists run it

The question?

RE: i'd still suggest you are far from the idea of what Islam is and what the Koran says. and its not important, as long as you do not disrespect it. whats more important is that we come together with our similarities and work with our differences

If I was, you'd stab me to death with a screwdriver, right? Truth of the matter is, I don't believe in it. Doesn't mean I respect it or disrespect it. It's your life.

Dude, if I have it wrong, and I don't think I have, you need to start talking about what it is, K? You can't condemn me for not having it right but stay silent about what it is.

RE: crystalstarr said it best, "respect others as you would wish others to respect you"

And that's what I'm doing. I am not going to respect something "because" or simply out of threat. Tell me why I should at least respect it. That's not a challenge per se, just a question.

[apollo]

Irongoth, cabdirazzaq is a Muslim. A very educated and peaceful one. But that's probably not what you're looking for, sorry.

Seamonster, WTF is your problem? I know who was killed in London, the same sort of people killed in the WTC. People going to work. We don't like the French because they are generally arrogant assholes. I couldn't care less about Paris. And I don't really care what their stance is on imperialism in Iraq.You hate the French because they're "arrogant assholes." And the rest of the world hates Americans because they're "arrogant assholes."

And so it goes, so it goes, round and round we go...

[xdianax]

IronGoth, the subject of this thread was why the Muslims of this forum were not responding and condemning the bombings in London. Do you think that there should be an obligation for Muslims to do so, or do you think such silence implies that they condone it?

I believe that one cannot put the weight of others who only share religion, ethnicity, or skin color on people who otherwise have no relation to them. Sometimes I hear of racist hate crimes--including beatings and murders--committed by people "in the name of Christianity". Such events makes me angry, and I cringe when I hear of them on the news. However, I would become more than a little annoyed if any of my friends felt that I had some sort of duty to apologize to them simply because I shared the same skin color or religion as that person. Although I may abhor the act, that is a personal feeling I may not wish to share. Anyone who would bring up the subject and demand that I respond to it simply because of the circumstances of my life, though I have no connection to the murderer, is being irrational. At that moment one feels like a statisic, a stereotype, rather than an individual.

:) In Love,

Diana