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Old 01-02-2012, 05:24 PM  
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Skip Skip is offline
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Exclamation Iraq War Vet Shoots Five, Kills Ranger, on the Lam in Nat'l Park

An Iraq War veteran with PTSD is suspected of shooting four people in the city of Skyway, as well as a female Park Ranger in Mt. Rainier National Park. There is a huge manhunt underway for Benjamin Colton Barnes in the park.

The entire park was shutdown and 125 visitors and 17 staff members were held in lockdown at the park's Jackson Visitor Center. The visitors were eventually evacuated in the early morning. Here's a pic of Mr. Barnes who allegedly shot four people at a gun "show and tell" party which turned into a shootout.



http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...yndication=rss

 


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Old 01-04-2012, 05:09 PM


jo_k_er_man jo_k_er_man is offline
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Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post
Indeed Skip and when they wake up and realise what they have done,THEY CANNOT HANDLE IT
I wish I could go a head and say "yeah that's the reason" but we are not drafted.. we sign up.. meaning we're doing it on our own free will... the army doesn't turn people into killers.. it allows people who want to be killers to kill legally...

Grandpa was in WWII.. never was there a time in my life where he seemed "off".. he was well aware of what was going on in his day to day... also have had cousins/uncles that have served and they have all come back fine.. friends that have gone off.. one did come back messed up.. be he signed up to do sniper duty... he was crazy before he left too...

Bottom line is.. Don't make excuses for these folks.. A killer is a killer.. whether he's served duty or not..
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:42 PM


Tyrsonswood Tyrsonswood is offline
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It's always a case by case situation, every body's different. Different reasons for signing up, different outcome when they get home (if they get home) But as a rule you can't really compare what happened with those that fought WWII with anything that came after that. There was a clear cut reason for involvement in WWII with a clear cut goal and the goal was achieved.

Any war after that time.... not so much.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:13 PM


Comfortablynumb11 Comfortablynumb11 is offline
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Originally Posted by jo_k_er_man View Post
I wish I could go a head and say "yeah that's the reason" but we are not drafted.. we sign up.. meaning we're doing it on our own free will... the army doesn't turn people into killers.. it allows people who want to be killers to kill legally...

Grandpa was in WWII.. never was there a time in my life where he seemed "off".. he was well aware of what was going on in his day to day... also have had cousins/uncles that have served and they have all come back fine.. friends that have gone off.. one did come back messed up.. be he signed up to do sniper duty... he was crazy before he left too...

Bottom line is.. Don't make excuses for these folks.. A killer is a killer.. whether he's served duty or not..
Well according to a friend I have who's retired from the military. He figured it was the right thing to do and then it just became a job he had to do. That does not really indicate to me that his reasoning was wanting to legally kill people. So I think it varies you can't really say its about being able to legally kill in the majority of cases.

a killer is still a killer but not all are the same.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:29 PM


RooRshack RooRshack is offline
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Originally Posted by jo_k_er_man View Post
I wish I could go a head and say "yeah that's the reason" but we are not drafted.. we sign up.. meaning we're doing it on our own free will... the army doesn't turn people into killers.. it allows people who want to be killers to kill legally...

Grandpa was in WWII.. never was there a time in my life where he seemed "off".. he was well aware of what was going on in his day to day... also have had cousins/uncles that have served and they have all come back fine.. friends that have gone off.. one did come back messed up.. be he signed up to do sniper duty... he was crazy before he left too...

Bottom line is.. Don't make excuses for these folks.. A killer is a killer.. whether he's served duty or not..
I don't think WWII has much to do with this.

We fought to save the world. We STILL didn't always do the right thing, (we may well have entered the war based on false flag operations, in fact, or things that we allowed to happen, just like we did with 9.11) but we still realllllllly had to get that shit done.

Today, even those who scream the loudest about protecting your liberal ass know that that's not REALLY the case, they know they're signing up to kill and to destroy the lives of people unlucky enough to have been born into a shitty nation that the US feels like stomping on. And then the PTSD and other problems encompass that. If you made it out of D-day, well you know a lot of people died, blah blah blah, but bottom line, it HAD to happen. If you make it out of iraq, a lot of people died, little children died, and it wasn't at the hands of our enemies, it was as a result of our policies, with contaminated water, food, radiation all over everything from our depleted uranium, etc. We're the ones doing the killing, and then killing to defend those dieing.... wait, what?

Viet nam vets got drafted, they're some of the most fucked up. Modern war uses chemical and radiological weapons, to even go into a lot of places you're first buffed up against nerve agents and things with all sorts of improperly tested, save you in the short term gulf war syndrome in the long term style meds, all that sort of thing. From nam to the present, those are fucked up vets because of chemical weapons combined with a false, desperate sense of accomplishment and right, because they go and kill and realize it's NOT right and they're NOT defending liberty.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:06 AM


Dude111 Dude111 is offline
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:47 PM


junglejack junglejack is offline
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http://www.ptsdsupport.net/ptsd2.html

After 13 months , I thought it wouldn't be any problem adjusting when I came home- I was wrong**
Its a story way too long to get into- but I now do lots of volunteer work with younger vets that have issues upon their "re-entry"- -
I definitely recommend anyone that is having trouble adapting to civilian life after thier tour- to reach out for help- Unlike 40 yrs ago, PTSD is now an accepted problem with many compassionate vets at your local VA center willing to help
-----------

like was mentioned ,many times its more than that, but feelings of anger ,hostility,depression.. etc... need to be worked out before something snaps*
not just used as a courtroom defense- -Too many times PSTD is used as an excuse for a fucked up senseless killing

PSTD is very real and very scary & it pisses me off when every nut job wants to use it for their defense


jjack
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:31 PM


ozrics ozrics is offline
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nob head
with guns
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:47 AM


Logan 5 Logan 5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jo_k_er_man View Post
I wish I could go a head and say "yeah that's the reason" but we are not drafted.. we sign up.. meaning we're doing it on our own free will... the army doesn't turn people into killers.. it allows people who want to be killers to kill legally...

Grandpa was in WWII.. never was there a time in my life where he seemed "off".. he was well aware of what was going on in his day to day... also have had cousins/uncles that have served and they have all come back fine.. friends that have gone off.. one did come back messed up.. be he signed up to do sniper duty... he was crazy before he left too...

Bottom line is.. Don't make excuses for these folks.. A killer is a killer.. whether he's served duty or not..
Some of the guys I was with were there so they could learn about killing. I can't say it's typical teenage boys, but I knew so many that thought to be a man you have to kill in the name of *something*. For some, their country. For others, their gang. Kill kill kill. That's all that's going through their minds until they do it.

When they do, some can't stand what they have become, and they want out. Some now understand what it is they did, and they actually do well in adjusting (though these really are fewer than you may think). And some don't want to stop. Or worse, can't. There's a soldier on trial now, USMC IIRC, for going out and killing 20-25 innocent Afghan tribals. I don't recall the details. I really don't care, either.

I served, but never went overseas and never saw combat. My PTSD is severe, but from civilian ops. EEG Neuro-feedback helped an awful lot, but nothing can cure it. Even the doctors said no meds can help. The EEG-NFB would take decades. EMDR, no chance.

With that said, I have discussed this stuff with vets, different engagements, some 'Nam, one or two Korea, one or two WW2. I express my condolences to those that went through the hell they did no matter if they were drafted or volunteered. But in the end, if they signed up, they weren't there for a tea party. You sign up and the recruiter tells you what you're getting into. If you don't remember, you should have paid attention. Because when you signed on that dotted line and took that oath, brother you became Property of the United States, for them to use in whatever ways or means for whatever goal they so wish. They don't care if you don't like it, you're trained to do a job, and you're gonna do it without complaining. If you complain, they will deal with you and you ain't gonna like it.

It sucks, but that's life. Remember that when you hear of a kid going off to sign their life away. AFAIC they have no right to take a life until they have watched one being brought into this world. The majic of watching a baby being born.

I recently moved to a town I haven't lived in, in decades. I saw a beautiful young woman the other day working at the local grocery store. 19 and hotter than a $5 pistol. I'm 42 & I'd fuck her. That evening I found out something else- 19 years ago she was also the first human child I ever saw born. Way different than watching a dog, a cat or even a horse or cow being born. Now, to me she's just a baby still. I couldn't do her if you put a gun to my head, now. Such is life.

That is what so many kids are missing. Understanding the value of life before having the choice of taking it from someone. I can't do it. I can't stomach taking away from someone what I cannot give back. I just can't do it.

Maybe that's why I spent over 12 years as a firefighter.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:04 PM
war is war


Paisley Skye Paisley Skye is offline
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back in the day, i saw loadsd of dudes come back from 'nam who on the surface seemed okay but you could sense something wasn't quite right. they didn't respond normally in what would normally not be called "out there". and they'd be abnormally quiet and unhealthily withdrawn. a number of them comitted suicide, while others drank or doped themselves into oblivion. things don't change...war is war. the geography may differ, the culture and the people might be different, but the dynamics don't change. people shoot, people bleed, people die. and sometimes i wonder if dying is a welcome substitute to coming home "damaged goods." peace(i mean it), paisley skye.
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