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#1 peacelovebarefeet

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Posted July 06 2005 - 10:22 PM

alright, so i am not homeschooled, but most of the people in my 4-H troop are.. and they really do not have social skills. i am open to everyone, and i accept them as people, but i dont think i would want to hang out with them on a regular basis, outside of 4-H. they just have problems making friends, and doing pretty simple things like sharing, and leadership skills.

this is why i am not so sure about homeschooling. i think if you are going to homeschool your child, you need to get them into playgroups (depending on the age, of course), recreational classes, you know, that sort of thing. but a lot of parents dont do these things, and their kids end up very antisocial with no "life" skills. i know i learned a lot in elementary school when i stood up to that bully, or i helped that girl with cerebal palsy get her school lunch. i know i am learning a lot in high school, about not gossiping, and respecting and standing up for the gays in my school.. i dont know.. i think its possible that homeschooled children are missing out on a lot. maybe not. i'll have to research it more.

i think seeing these girls makes me... a little apprehensive about homeschooling. i mean, i am only 16 years old, and i am NOT planning to have kids anytime soon, but when i do, i will have to weigh out the pros and cons of homechooling vs. public school.

but, for no reason think that i am against homeschooling.. i think it works for many many parents and children, but i also know that public school works pretty well too. i mean, im turning out okay, right?

i dont know, i just wanted to say that, see what you guys think. its basically just a bunch of ramblings...

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#2 Hipmoon

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Posted July 07 2005 - 07:17 AM

Hello.

Homeschooled kids can get just as much socialization as public schooled kids. It all comes down to the parents. What bothers me the most by your post is that you state that you wouldn't hang out with those girls outside of 4-h becuase they have trouble making friends. Well, that is part of the problem right there. I'm sure the trouble comes down to the fact that people assume things about them (like you did) and then don't give them a chance. If you never give people the chance, you'll never know what sort of friendships you miss out on. This goes both ways.

Socialization isn't about being stuck in a building with people your age for 7 hours during the day, it's about meeting all sorts of people throughout life and getting to experience a wide range of friendships with people of all ages. In public schools, kids tend to gravitate towards cliques and segregation. Homeschoolers tend to be more open about their friendships. This is just an observation I have made in my experiences.

#3 papabear

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Posted July 07 2005 - 07:44 AM

Our kids seem to do well, they have lots of friends, both homeschooled and public schooled. They play sports and take music lessons. We have been involved in homeschool groups before, though not currently. I think that my kids get more real socilization sice they are exposed to people of all ages and walks of life. However some hardcore christian homeschoolers do I think maybe shelter their kids too much and don't allow them to see other walks of life, but that is just my opinion based on what i have seen.

#4 persephonewillow

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Posted July 07 2005 - 08:11 AM

I'm sure the trouble comes down to the fact that people assume things about them (like you did) and then don't give them a chance


i was going to say the same thing :)

you know, the socialization issue is ALWAYS brought up. my kids have become MORE social since leaving public school. they've become more comfortable socializing with adults than they ever were before, they have friends of all ages they play with daily.

about the leadership issue... some people just aren't leaders. i'm not. i went to public school and i never learned to be a good leader. it just isn't in my personality.

and the sharing issue? i think that has nothing to do with homeschooling or public schooling... or any schooling at all. i think it has to do with how people are raised and taught at home AND the individual's personality. i know plenty of publicly schooled kids who have trouble sharing. my daughter has no trouble sharing... but my son can be territorial about his stuff, especially with people he doesn't know well enough to feel comfortable sharing with yet. i think as long as a person is polite in saying 'no, i don't feel comfortable sharing right now', they have every right not to share... as long as they are aware that by not sharing, other people probably won't be terribly open about sharing with them either. :) no one is obligated to share everything with everyone all the time.

and as i said in another post, i don't remember school being a place to socialize. i was always told 'you're here to learn, not socialize'. and when my daughter was in public school i had complaints from teachers that she was being too 'social... she needs to concentrate on her school work, not her social life'. the recess breaks she had in her school were barely time to do any real socialization either. the only socialization i see happening in schools is in the form of people learning their place in a social system.

and as a side note... there is a family of 4 here (three kids, one parent) that has forbidden my kids to play in their house or backyard (but they can play together at the park, go figure). why? because my kids are homeschooled and the mother doesn't want my kids to influence her kids in any bad ways because my kids aren't getting the proper social skills her kids are getting at public school. it isn't the first time we've been shut out when people learn we homeschool and it probably won't be the last until people educate themselves more on what homeschooling is all about and let go of stereotypes that are going around.

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#5 peacelovebarefeet

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Posted July 07 2005 - 09:53 AM

well, i only said i did not want to hang out with them outside of 4-H because 1) many many times i have had an item, and they just grab it from my hands, expecting me to just give it to them. if i resist, they say "we dont know how to share!" what the hell?!
2) they are VERY VERY christian, and they are always trying to force their beliefs onto me, and i definately dont like that.

that being said, i HAVE hung out with them outside 4-H before, and it was... not good. they didnt know how to not be rude while asking questions. for example, my oldest brother, a few years ago, commited suicide. they know this, and at a quiet point in the conversation, in the middle of a restraunt, they shouted, "how did your brother commit suicide!? was it a gun to his head?! or perscription pills!?" i was outraged and embarassed. it is MY business, not the entire restraunts!

i dont know, ive always had the theory that their lack of knowing how to act in the "real world" stemmed from their lack of socialization skills from homeschooling. \

but who knows. maybe these 2 girls are just not the norm....

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#6 HADLEYCHICK

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Posted July 07 2005 - 11:33 AM

I would respond to this last post by saying, "There are rude people everywhere." Just because these kids are homeschooled doesn't mean that they are thoughtless and tactless because they are homeschooled. I went through public school with a very embarrassing medical problem. All through school I was teased and ridiculed and people called me obnoxious embarrasing nicknames for the duration of my school career- even after the problem stopped. These kids were socialized so-to-speak but no one had taught them to be kind, polite, and accepting of others. In addition many who were kind when they were alone, went with the herd when they were part of a group. I believe that schools do very little to socialize kids into correct behavior. I worked in public school for a long time and teachers have this attitude that the mean kids are just mean, you can't stop it. They will continue being mean because it is who they are and there is only so far educators can go to quell the group think. If they do or say anything to change it it might make it worse for the ridiculed kids when teachers aren't watching, so for the most part, they shut up.
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#7 ladybirdhawk

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Posted July 09 2005 - 10:21 PM

There is not a problem with not enough socialization, as all of our homeschooling mainly invovles others such as our volunteer work, our groups that we participate in etc.
Sometimes we find that there is "too much socializing" for our comfort level and we feel the need to retreat and spend some quality time for ourselves.
We find where we are and the folks that we chose to hang with that they are pretty respectful of our choices in life and encourage my kids to grow and do what they are wanting to do.
Sometimes we find that there is folks in the "public school system " that are not as polite but we just make choices not to hang with them.

#8 mosaicthreads

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Posted July 11 2005 - 05:19 PM

well, i only said i did not want to hang out with them outside of 4-H because 1) many many times i have had an item, and they just grab it from my hands, expecting me to just give it to them. if i resist, they say "we dont know how to share!" what the hell?!
2) they are VERY VERY christian, and they are always trying to force their beliefs onto me, and i definately dont like that.
...
i dont know, ive always had the theory that their lack of knowing how to act in the "real world" stemmed from their lack of socialization skills from homeschooling. \

but who knows. maybe these 2 girls are just not the norm....


I don't think this rude behavior has anything to do with homeschooling. I think that these girls are just rude. Maybe thier parents haven't taught them manners, and I'm not sure that they would have learned them in school either, if they are still acting like this as teenagers. Sounds more like toddler behavior to me. *rolls eyes*

We were in a Christian homeschooling group and found some rude children, and some rude parents. I don't think it had anything to do with them being Christian, or with them being homeschooled. I think it had everything to do with parents that didn't value teaching manners. Please don't judge the majority of home educators (or Christians) on these examples.
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#9 WHorseTurtle

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Posted July 23 2005 - 01:38 PM

When I was younger, like 10, I went to a party and encountered a home schooled child there. He was so sure of himself, so outspoken and outgoing. He was like a 20 year old in a 8 year olds body. No lie. Made me jealous as that's the type of person I would have been and would be now if I had had the right kind of upbringing and nuturing enviroment.

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#10 squawkers7

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Posted July 25 2005 - 10:20 AM

When my oldest daughter was in 2nd grade in public school, she was always in trouble for being a "social butterfly"...very outspoken,loud, leader type in her little group...always getting the other kids going.
When we decided to homeschool her she became a cooking teacher in her 4-H group, she helped out in a special olympics group and she had no problems talking /or just helping others in public. Alot of elderly would comment about how polite & helpful she was.
No matter where you get your education, you end up in the same place....out in the real world. Some parents & kids just aren't comfortable or just don't know how to deal with it.
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#11 squawkers7

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Posted August 18 2005 - 01:59 AM

:sunglasse This is an old article from a magazine called "The Teaching Home"

Myths About Socialization

By Rick and Marilyn Boyer



Of all the objections raised to home education, the most common is the question of social development.

"How can children learn to relate to other people if we don't send them to school?"

The answer: Naturally and successfully!

The fact is that the age-peer social grouping of our schools is unnatural and often destructive of home-taught values. Home educators can protect their children from the effects of this social aberration if they recognize it as such and are prepared to refute its surrounding myths.



Myth:
Schools provide children with plenty of healthy social experience.

Fact: Schools isolate children from normal social situations and expose them to negative socializing factors.

My early years in school contained little social experience at all. I recall sitting in a desk in a roomful of children all the same age and not being permitted to socialize to any significant degree.

Except for a few minutes of hyperactivity at recess and a half hour at lunch, we were anything but social. Class discussions were initiated and guided by the teacher. We didn't select the timing or the topic. Nor did we feel free to say exactly what was on our mind.

Compared to the real world of home and neighborhood, school was social deprivation. We were actually removed from what really goes on in society by being placed in the artificial environment of a classroom.

The school setting not only lacks positive social experience, it contains some very negative socializing factors as well.

Peer pressure is the most commonly recognized of these, but it is not alone. A child is deeply influenced by his teacher, too, and the younger the child, the greater the teacher's degree of influence.

This is a sobering thought to a person of my age, because the generation who were students in the sixties are now the teaching and administration cadre of the public schools. The moral relativism of the Vietnam generation now guides many of our teachers.

The curriculum has now become social as well. Sex education encourages students to use others for selfish pleasure. The only obligation is to "protect" themselves and their partners from pregnancy and/or disease. (This, of course, can only be guaranteed by monogamy, an overlooked detail.) Death education (along with abortion) is mental preparation for euthanasia.

"Values clarification" is teaching children that some people are more valuable than others: if there is one too many in the bomb shelter, take a vote and eject one.



Myth:
Home educators should involve their children in social activities with their own age groups to compensate for their "lack of social contact."

Fact: Age-segregated groups foster negative social attitudes while age-integrated family groups encourage mutually beneficial interaction.

Research, experience, and logic all confirm that an age-peer social environment is destructive of healthy attitudes toward self and others.

A situation in which children are constantly compared to each other teaches them that success comes not by doing one's best but by being like someone else.

Another argument against age segregation is the need of the different age groups for contact with each other. This certainly applies to consecutive generations but also to groups closer in age as well.

An experiment was conducted in which 6th graders with reading problems were assigned to teach 1st grade children how to read. The result was that the 6th graders greatly improved their own reading, and the 1st graders learned to read better than their peers taught by the teachers. That experiment illustrates our point: children benefit from interaction with others who are either older or younger than themselves.

Family bonding, so desperately needed in our day, is also frustrated by the segregation of age groups. It is common knowledge that to an adolescent among his peers it is not acceptable to treat a sibling with affection or to respect and appreciate a parent's advice. In most traditional societies, grandparents help their children rear the grandchildren, giving old age a purpose, children the benefit of wisdom, and young parents relief from shouldering the whole burden. Age-peer oriented mass education with its ever increasing demands on a child's time has made this concept a faded memory in America. We are a poorer and shallower society for it.



Myth:
One of the important things children learn in school is how to get along with all types of people.

Fact: Children in school are more likely to develop habits of unkindness and disrespect for anyone who is "different."

School children spend much time in the presence of other people, but it is an unnatural, contrived environment where students are separated from the rest of society and have little meaningful communication even with each other.

And they certainly aren't learning to "get along." Even well-meaning attempts by teachers to encourage tolerance of others' differences cannot withstand the strong peer pressure to conform and the cruel rejection of those who don't, both of which come naturally to children in non-family groups.



Myth:
Children learn to stand up for their beliefs by dealing with their peers antagonism in school.

Fact: Almost all children and adolescents are unready to stand against the overwhelming pressures they face in school.

Do they stand? Does the average 4th grader take issue with his teacher when told that man evolved from monkeys? Does the average high school athlete tell his buddies to spare him the locker room jokes because he's a Christian? Surely some do, but not most.

Younger children especially revere their teachers, or at least the teacher's authority. Students of high school age have lost much of their starry-eyed trust of adults, but for them peer pressure is almost irresistible. Certainly there are notable exceptions, but it is unusual for a high school student even in a Christian school to take a clear stand apart from his Godless or lukewarm fellows.

People tend to become average for the group they are in. As the Bible says, "Bad company corrupts good morals." (I Cor. 15:33, NAS)

Another factor to consider is readiness. When I say that children face too much pressure in school, someone often objects, "But they have to learn to deal with it sometime." True. They will have to learn to drive, too. But not at five or six years of age!

As adults we often forget just how much pressure is on children in school. Children and adolescents in peer groups often say and do things to each other that can only be described as vicious. And it is usually the shy ones, the small ones, the insecure and backward children, in short, the ones who are least able to "deal with it" who get the brunt of the bullying and ridicule.

This is a pressure adults do not have to face. When I was in school, I was one of the smallest boys. This and my insecure personality made me the target for bullying, ridicule, and social exclusion.

I have never been subjected to such treatment anywhere else. Even with years of experience in construction, I have never known adults to treat each other the way children treat their peers. School is a pressure cooker to which no child should be subjected.

The damage done by the philosophy expressed in these four myths is unfortunately not limited to children in schools.

Many home educators still equate social development with segregating children to their own age group. These parents contrive all sorts of "extracurricular activities" for their children to be involved in for the sake of "normal socialization."

What children really need is their natural habitat. They need to spend time with their families in the real world: home, church, neighborhood, market, and work. They need to see others of all ages going about the real business of living

Further, they need guidance from parents, grandparents, and siblings rather than being thrown into an indiscriminate mix of companions. Proverbs 13:20 is the answer to the myths of socialization: "He who walks with wise men will be wise, but the companion of fools will be destroyed."


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#12 squawkers7

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Posted September 01 2005 - 05:46 AM

This was part of a looong e-mail I got this morning....seems to be from "The Teaching Home" magazine

B. Social Benefits
Your home and family provide the first and best context for
your children to learn effective and godly ways of relating to others.


1. Family Unity
God wants us to have a home filled with love,joy, and peace
where each member of the family relates to the others as He
intends.

• Your family can experience unity, closeness, and mutual
enjoyment of one another as you spend more time together working,
studying, and playing.

• Flexible home-school scheduling can easily accommodate
parents' work and vacation times and allow time for more family
activities.

• Your family can learn teamwork as each member of the family
makes a contribution to the success of your home school.

• Your children gain respect for you in a new way as youteach
them a wide range of knowledge.



--------------------------------------------------------------

2. Social Skills
Social skills are those that enable your children to show
love to and serve others. These skills include understanding
others, communication, cooperation, managing conflict,
leadership, and lovingly meeting the needs of others.

• There are many opportunities to practice social skills in the
context of normal family life and under yourguidance in groups
of friends, families, and your local church.

• Negative socialization by peer pressure from classmates can
be avoided through home schooling.

"Do not be misled:
Bad companycorrupts good character."
I Corinthians 15:33 • Your child can develop confidence in interacting more often
with people of all ages and stations.

#13 mynameiskc

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Posted September 19 2005 - 06:28 AM

well, say what you like, but our neighbor's girls were both home schooled, and neither had any friends to speak of. i thought both were bright, down-to-earth girls, but neither could stand other people much. they were pretty rigid in how they wantd things to be done, socially speaking, and were unable to bend.
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#14 purplemoonbeams

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Posted October 23 2005 - 05:04 PM

"Their kids end up very antisocial with no "life" skills."

I've been public schooled my whole life and I am very antisocial and can't REALLY talk to anyone other than my dad and maybe two other people. When was was young, before going to school, I was very talkative and would say hi to people I didn't know. As soon as I started going to school, I became extremely shy and was made to feel my thoughts and opinions are worthless because I tend to not agree with most of my peers.

Meanwhile, all of the homeschooled kids I've ever known make friends quickly, are more confident, and don't get terrified at the thought of speaking in class.
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