Richard Spencer

Discussion in 'People' started by Reverand JC, Jan 22, 2017.

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  1. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    6, you've honestly never heard of agent provocateurs? They were employed during the Vietnam war protests, many involved in the Occupy protests think the government made use of them, and we saw it at Standing Rock with that pipeline employee who came to Standing Rock waving a gun around.

    At this point there isnt any proof, so sure, its a conspiracy theory but not a very outlandish one
     
  2. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    No. Trump supporters may have been searching for a pretext to make anti-trump demonstrators look bad, and/or Milo might have wanted to do the same to get publicity, or the local police did it, or maybe that's what the Bilderbergers were plotting behind closed doors, or maybe it was really anarchists (who are a tiny part of the Left), or maybe Hillary , or... We just don't know until we get behind the masks. And that's the point. But you want to use it to discredit "the Left. You tell us what the masked men did. What evidence do you have about who they really were or what their plan was? Why do you think people should be arming themselves because of this incident? It's all about evidence and reasonable inference! But Trump pounced on it to threaten Berkeley's funding. How logical is that? More red meat for the base!
    BTW, I never said it was agent provocateurs, or probably was. We just don't know. Was it Leftists who started the Reichstag fire?
     
  3. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Yeah I heard of them. Lets follow the money on who really funded these groups, and their ties to George Soros http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/03/look-who-funds-the-group-behind-the-call-to-arms-at-milos-berkeley-event/

    So you don't have to look any further than Antifa Front's twitter page to know they aren't a pretend anti-Trump group.

    "The fascists of tomorrow will call themselves the anti-fascists"- Winston Churchill

    Wikileaks revealed that Hillary also hired goons at $1300 a head to pick fights at Trump rallies in Chicago. I'm honestly surprised the twats who rushed Bernie's stage weren't outed as agent provocateurs.

    I call these people, the left's useful idiots. Franklin Roosevelt even warned us of these goons:

    "It's an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting battles for them" -FDR
     
  4. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Yes, and the moon landing was a hoax.

    Really dude, you don't actually think Milo conspired all this? He's too busy spending money on his hairdo, getting his nails done, and being a race mixing kike faggot to wage war on his own support base. I suppose his Twitter banning over a Ghostbusters review that skyrocketed his fame was all done by Breitbart insiders too. Anti-Trump protesters don't need any help making themselves look bad. They are practically giving him a re-election platform for 2020 on a silver plate. Even Vox writers are tweeting to their readers to "Start a riot" if Trump shows up in their town. The left is getting into dangerous territory; hurting their chances for a victory in the near future. Especially when Tim Kaine even tells people to "take to the streets."

    Universities, especially the publically funded ones, should be welcoming of free speech. At Berkley no less. Where the Free Speech Movement began. What a shame. If they promote censorship, hell yeah cut their funding.
     
  5. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    From what I could see of the Berkeley incident, the presumably Antifa members appeared to be hitting some apparent protestors as well and they definitely disturbed the protest. This makes me think they are either not entirely in support of the protestor's actions, cue the agents provocateur narrative, or it's exemplary of the fallacy of anarchy as being any real solution to the issues which many are voicing opposition to. I'd say it's at least as disingenuous to suggest that Antifa represents the general left populace as it is the KKK represents the general Right populace, perhaps even more so as is apparent with this thread, not many even really know who Antifa are...

    However let's assume Antifa is a legitimate movement, from what I gather, I think these incidents such as destroying a Starbucks or preventing the voices of those who have recently been hoisted to positions of power from speaking, who in their views promote hateful agendas, are a railing against a perceived corrupt corporatism and a visceral surfacing of the frustrations of condescension and disaffection that many of these (mostly) kids have been hearing for several years, name calling and how they hide behind their keyboards.

    Here's an interesting article I found which if taken at face value, suggests antifa is a real movement and yet also lends some credibility to at least portions of the antifa movement having agent provocateurs:

    https://www.wired.com/2017/02/neo-nazis-face-new-foe-online-irl-far-left-antifa/





     
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  6. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Poor George Soros. He's taken the place of the Bilderbergers, the Iluminati, Despicable Me, and Dr. Evil in the minds of rightwingers as the alleged bankroller of wickednessl in the world. At the rate he's going-- paying all those women demonstrators in Washington and around the globe, sponsoring the violence in Chicago and now this--he'll soon be wearing a barrel. Right. And Hillary was behind the pedophiles in Pizzagate. Again, no evidence. Just fake news and guilt by association. So Soros provided funds for Alliance for Global Justice which, in turn, provided support for Refuse Fascism (Wait a minute. I thought Anitfa was supposed to be the culprit. Is this a switcheroo?). By that logic, does that make Steve Bannon a Neo-nazi or a white supremacist, since he'd provided space for them on Breitbart? Since the Mercers and the Koch brothers support Breitbart, I guess that makes them Neo-nazis or white supremacists, too.
     
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  7. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    You have a point that it's disingenuous to say Antifa represents the entire left. If anything, they are an offspring of the Authoritarian Left, not so much of the libertarian left (much like how the white pride nationalists are a part of the authoritarian right). I will not paint all liberals with the same brush. At the same time within the last year, left wing publications have been advocating starting riots when Trump comes to town. They've tried to legitimize the Berkley riots as if it was actually started by white supremacists when it really wasn't the case. It is actually really funny how they celebrated a victory in shutting down a Milo speech where he was supposed to dress as a gay native american stereotype and talk about cultural appropriation to a room of 200 people. Only to have it backlash and have him speak about the authoritarian left's war on free speech to millions of people on national television :D.

    Now, they are desperately trying to start a conspiracy theory that Anitfa has nothing to do with being a leftist or anti-Trump. And that it was all paid for by Milo to get more book sales. At least they are waking up and realizing that violence is only digging themselves into a deeper hole, and they are doing everything they can to distance themselves from the violent tendencies of Antifa. It seemed to me that the authoritarian left has gotten away with yelling down it their favorite buzzwords "Racist! Bigot! Sexist! Transphobe! Islamaphobe!" for far too long. So they turn to violence and censorship when they no longer know how to argue.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Bingo! And that's exactly why the twisted sociopathic fuck is fully capable of having been behind it! He's got the motivation, the pathology, and the army of devoted psychophants to pull it off. Entirely plausible. Just as plausible as your conclusion that the Left did it.
     
  9. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    The first time I've heard of Antifa was less than a week ago. I don't follow these politics threads super closely, so apologies if I've glossed over mention of them prior to that but afaik I might have been the first person to mention them on Hipforums. So I'm not sure those that have their reservations about the group's legitimacy on the left, do so out of knowing much about the group and their ideas/agenda for a long time, the way people know about the KKK. Based on his reputation for sources, I really don't think someone like Okiefreak, who is apparently unaware of this group, is doing so intentionally only to provide a conspiracy theory narrative as you perceive it.

    I was rather taken aback at what they did at Berkeley, particularly on the heels of the peaceful women marches. While in a sense, their efforts were counterproductive insofar that they are boosting Milo to more fame and exposure, in another sense, I think they are kind of smashing (no pun intended) some of the perceptions I've seen made regarding the left on here and with some of these alt-right people, for instance the lack of sense of humor they possess espoused by Milo and you. To me a meme of a freedom fighter beating up a racist frog is more funny and amusing than Milo dressing up as a Native American giving a speech about cultural appropriation. Then there is the aforementioned notion that they'll only hide behind their keyboards or go to their safe spaces when triggered or upset, where this riot that occurred on only a corner of a 1200+ acres college campus and about a block of street has prompted the likes of you to respond to take up your weapons, acting as if this was some mass shooting incident.

    I don't think there is really any sustainability in the Antifa movement though, particularly if they continue with similar tactics, yet if they try to develop into something more structured and hierarchical, that kind of disowns the anarchist ideals.
     
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  10. Reverand JC

    Reverand JC Willy Fuckin' Wonka

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    Alright kids! As someone who has seen the "The Black Block" in action for about 12 years I can tell you who they are as they have not only fucked up the college in the town where I currently live, but dropped windows during Occupy, and started a bunch of bullshit during the International ANSWER anti war protests in SF in 2002.

    Essentially the Black Block are a bunch of 16 to 18 year old white wannabe Anarchist skate punks with a 25 year old white wannabe Anarchist telling them if they drop windows they will be "Revolutionaries" while the 25 year old watches from a safe distance. I know this because I have seen them up close. Aside from the black hoodies, sunglasses, and bandannas the one part of the uniform that is missing is gloves. You can't mistake white hands. Pretty much these kids represent everything that is wrong with white privilege as they are predominantly from middle to upper middle class white families who will gladly pay bail and say "Kids will be kids" and they will go back to their boring suburban lives. Most of them wouldn't know Anarchist Philosophy if Emma Goldman came back from the grave and slapped them. They get the adrenaline rush of being in a riot combined with the ego boost of having a "Cool older guy" telling them how cool they are and the bragging rights of being on the news and having war stories to tell.

    C/S,
    Rev J
     
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  11. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Do you not think there's a war on free speech? Seeing how there was a smaller riot when he went to UC Davis that had his event shut down, and had no media attention whatsoever. I highly doubt they'd have needed to plant any agent provocateurs to get an anti-free speech riot started at a California school for publicity sake. In that political climate, a riot will start all by itself if you tell enough useful idiots that a Nazi is coming to town. My sister is getting her master's at UC Davis right now, and that's how I knew about the UC Davis incident.

    Tell you what; how much $ are you willing to bet that Antifa was or was not funded by Milo? The reporters will find out sooner or later.
     
  12. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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  13. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    I'm not a betting man. There are lots of possibilities. Maybe it was Trump/Bannon. The riots provided Trump with the occasion to tarnish his oppostition and posture as the defender of law and order. There's a petition in circulation for Trump to declare Antifa a terrorist organization. It purports to have 59,845 signatures. http://www.dailystormer.com/petition-to-declare-antifa-a-terrorist-group-getting-massive-support/ Note the source of this information: Daily Stormer. Maybe the Neo-nazi Stormers are behind it. They're violent thugs and they hate Milo, too.http://www.dailystormer.com/anyone-defending-milo-at-this-point-is-a-traitor/ That would make sense. This may be the start of a broader effort to have opposition to Der Donald branded as domestic terrorists. Or not. Maybe it is anarchists. You say it's Antifa. Breitbart says its Refuse Fascism. Are they related? Why do you say its Antifa? So many possibilities. Which reporters will find out?
     
  14. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    Whoever they are, I think most of us can agree they aren't in alignment with the average progressive/liberal - if they sympathized at all with the aims of the hundreds of thousands of people who have protested peacefully since Trump's inauguration, they wouldn't attempt to discredit their entire movement with violence and chaos.
     
  15. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Honestly, I don't really care if they are Antifa, Refuse Racism, or Black Lives Matter. All three of these groups are anti-fascists.

    And as we all know, there are 2 types of true fascists: Fascists and Anti-Fascists.

    The direction the authoritarian left has taken is the censorship through violence approach. As they see their enemies capitalize on exposing their hypocrisy. Maybe this is their wake-up call.

    The authoritarian left for so long has gotten away with shouting down people as racists, sexists, islamaphobic, and transphobic to people who aren't. Now that this weapon is no longer effective, they've forgotten how to argue, and socially engineered all these useful idiots to carry out assaults and violence to instill their message.

    Maybe the reporters won't find out after all. Most of them suck at their job and use their platform to virtue signal.
     
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  16. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    What exactly is the difference between this and people on the right who shout down people by calling them libtards, snowflakes, communists, toddlers throwing a temper tantrum?

    It is shameful that many Americans can no longer engage in civil discourse, but I hardly think it is solely an issue for the left.
     
  17. Beutsecks

    Beutsecks Large Rooster

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    One big difference is the lack of assaults, fires, broken windows, smashed ATMs and looted pharmacies. When will we see video of the hordes of masked, violent, red hatted foolish right wingers pouring out of chartered buses?

    Since we see plenty of that from the left, why would anyone think the right has an obligation to engage? Why should the right be burdened with offering civil dialog to people who are openly hateful and clearly out of control? What are they to do? Walk toward a riot waving a white flag? It would be burned while they were being assaulted with the stick. The left made a serious error by stirring things up like this.

    But somehow, it's all the fault of the what ring wingers "say"? Their "hateful" rhetoric somehow makes it "ok" to beat them? As liberal as I am, I could never get behind that. Once they start hitting people and throwing debris and bricks, their "cause" becomes meaningless. Fighting with the cops is as moronic as it gets and yet, we don't see any of that from the right or the "alt-right".

    I wonder what the reaction would be if Spencer actually did manage to unite enough of the disconnected KKK groups into an actual mob that goes after some leftist rally? It's not something I'd want to see, but so far it's also not something any of us has had to worry about. Spencer and his ilk have zero support and can't afford to charter a single bus. Heck, the guy can't afford a body guard, he's nothing.
     
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  18. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Since I'm not sure who is responsible for the violence (it's certainly not "the left' or even "the right"), I think the effort to use it as an excuse for "the right" to get more violent is a mistake. Cold be those agents provocateurs.
     
  19. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    This. Why would anyone assume that a violent group who is undermining a movement of peaceful progessive would be on the same side as the progressives..it doesnt make any sense. Maybe they're not agent provocateurs but these attempts to lump them in with all leftists are misguided
     
  20. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    Actually Dick and 6, what you're doing is exactly what you profess to be against -grouping everyone on one side of the political spectrum in with the most extreme members of the spectrum
     
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