How To Argue For Gun Control.

Mac

It should be remembered that private assistance was never capable on its own, in helping the disadvantaged it was always backed up or ran alongside public assistance. In the US this was based originally on the English Elizabethan poor laws, which the colonists had brought with them when they came to the Americas.
Now even in upturns such private assistance as was given however genuine and heartfelt as it could be, could be inadequate, but during downturns that system was often overwhelmed (and giving could even drop in times of greatest need as people looked to their own needs).

“While the genuine warmth emanating from these volunteer institutions produced a true sense of community with revitalising effects in depressed urban neighbourhoods, participants quickly realised that private charity was not enough. Charity Organisation Societies modelled on those of London and Berlin had emerged in the early 1880’s to be succeeded by Associated Charities designed to prevent duplication of effort among the score of secular and church philanthropies, but relief measures possible under a system of private endeavour, no matter how earnest or how efficiently organised, could not handle the problems arising in periods of economic distress.

Public institutions to care for indigents, the ill, the widows and orphans, the aged and the insane never had money enough during boom times, and when hard times set in and the burden increased, city welfare budgets lagged still further behind the amounts needed.”
The Rise of Urban America by Constance Mclaughlin Green

Also on the forum such things as sewage works and housing amongst other things have been discussed where public money and government legislation did a lot to help to improve the lives of poor and middle class people.
http://www.hipforums.....php?p=7470925

The reason why people fought long and hard for public assistance was because private assistance was not enough to actually help people out of disadvantage. The old con game of the deserving and undeserving poor (explained before) often played its part in the advantaged thinking, as it does in yours.

 

Mac

I think we have the measure of what type of ‘christian’ you are.

LOL – your whole argument is about not helping – that you want to choose what and who is assisted and it is clear from what you have said so far that you don’t think many are worthy of it.

Its basically back to the deserving and undeserving argument - the deserving are those that don’t ask for help and so don’t need any. And the undeserving are those who do ask for help thereby showing that they are scroungers and wasters who don’t deserve any help, because they can only have got themselves into that position because of their own bad choices and behaviour.

 

Mac

Similar with cars you have to have insurance to drive legally on the road, you can be fined or banned from driving if you don’t have it (I believe many states in the US have something similar)

But you have said you are opposed to government mandated systems you only want voluntary systems but it’s clear that a lot of people would not get car insurance in a voluntary scheme and that is why it is mandated.

There are a number of ‘public’ health systems in Europe that have private insurers as part of their makeup (I believe in Switzerland for example), basically it is compulsory insurance scheme. In the UK the government mandates we pay National Insurance and certain taxes and the NHS supplies the healthcare.

 

Mac

Yes but you still seem to be saying that widespread gun ownership has had no real impact on general crime in the US other than leading to a much higher gun related death rates than other developed countries.

As I’ve said the US figures on violent crime are basically comparable to other developed countries it’s just that because of ease of access to guns the outcomes are likely to be lethal so you get such higher gun related deaths. And to repeat other crime figure for general crime are also comparable so ease of access to guns doesn’t seem to be helping reduce crime it just escalated the numbers of those injured or killed.


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Study: States with more gun laws have less gun violence
http://www.usatoday....hicago/1969227/

LOL – I put forward a report by a Boston hospital and Harvard Medical school you counter with some youtube pundit called YankeeMarshal, man you are hilarious, but that seems very indicative of the whole anti-gun control lobby.

 

Mac

And….? What’s your point?

Your point is you have no point – sorry that doesn’t make sense

So this statement is pointless it has no meaning – then why did you make it?

 

Mac

Yes and we have been through your ‘indicator’ and they don’t seem to stand up.

To repeat

Ok so far the main reason’s you have put forwards as the reasons for violence are

• Single parenthood (fatherless families)

• Not being a follower of your religion

• Population density

• Black people are more murderous than other people

Well on a national level at least the single parenthood thing doesn’t seem to fly.

The religion thing seems a non starter.

Population density doesn’t seem to stand up so we are left with

- Black people are more murderous than other people

Now as a supposed black person yourself why do you seem to think black people are inherently, that is genetically predisposed to being more violent than other groups?

I have heard this kind of thing before, but only from racist, can you please explain your think?

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Now you have said you don’t think black people are genetically predisposed to be more violent than other groups but then make statements like this –

And you say you had no point in pointing this out it’s just that you would like people to know that blacks are the ones who commit 50% of violent crime and in no way to suggest that that black people are genetically predisposed to be more violent than other groups

Anyway let me ask again what rational ways would you go about tackling that problem (and not just hoping your god will fix things)?

 

[SIZE=14pt]Reason Americans shot their guns Jan 2017[/SIZE]

A guest at my son’s New Year’s Eve party got drunk and wouldn’t leave, so I shot him dead.

I got in a fight with a guy, so I grabbed my gun and fired at him. My shot went through a wall and killed a woman in the next room.

Some guy dinged my door in a parking lot and we started arguing about it. We both had guns, so I shot him first.

My brother was arguing with me about which one of us treats Grandma right, so I shot him.

I was arguing with my stepson about chilidogs and I said I was gonna shoot him. So my wife hid my gun. Then he kept arguing with me so I got my OTHER gun out and shot him dead.

My neighbor was yelling at me because I kicked her dog, so I shot her dead.

I accidentally ran over a dog with my car. The guy who owned the dog was really mad about it and was yelling at me, so I shot him dead.

[SIZE=11pt]Somebody in another car flashed their bright headlights at me (I was driving with my brights on), so I turned around, followed him and shot him. [/SIZE]

 

This topic keeps calling me. It's following me I think. It knows I need to say something about this.

A few years ago I ran a private sale table at a gun show. I sold a pistol to a gentleman with the proper state driver's license. Our sale was complete.

30 minutes later.....

The same gentleman walked over to my friends retail table. The gentleman failed the background check.

I sold a firearm to a person who legally couldn't have one.

Based on my personal experience ALL gun sales and ownership transfers should have background checks.

 

Is this how you perceive gun owners as a whole?

If so, I have a very hard time believing you were ever member of a gun club with such a twisted view on the world. What kind of gun club were you part of? I mean, at one point in your life you must've liked them enough to join a social gathering about guns. I'm not even a member of any gun club. You probably couldn't even tell us what kind of gun you used to own without first googling what type of gun is acceptable to own in your country.

 

Eye

The thing is that such stories highlight that easy access to guns can make many incidents much more dangerous. The presence of a gun can make a simple argument into something with a lot more serious outcome than hurt feelings or a black eye, same with petty criminal activity, domestic violence and suicide.

 

Go shoot a gun, get training, assume some responsibility. Then come back to me with a solid argument on why govt should tell you what you can own.

 

Did you do the right thing and go get your gun back? We're the police called? You have a civil duty to do what is right to protect others, protect yourself, and to protect the integrity of the 2A.

Also some people don't know they cannot buy a gun, and attempt to. You could have had an ex go crazy and slap a restraining order on you (even if you never gave her/him a reason for it) that will deny you on NICS. Sometimes you can be delayed if you refuse to put your SSN on the 4473.

 

Nobody voted for Tom Kirkman
Nobody wanted Mr.Tom Kirkman
Still a better president than trump.

 

die

LOL – so did you read the thread before you posted in it?

If you did can you address the numerous criticisms of the anti-gun control lobby?

However your post seem to indicate you didn’t so maybe you should, you can then become informed at what has been said.

 

Big bust in Brooklyn NY.

Dozens of handguns smuggled in from Virginia where they are purchased legally.

The carnage in our town brought by irresponsibility far away. and by people who ought to know better.

Shut down these gun shows where psychos can buy guns without identification.

 

Me fucking up is an understatement. I didn't do the right thing. I never attempted to get the gun back, the police were not called, I didn't do my duty to protect the public or 2A.

After that incident and that day was the last time I've sold any Firearms to anybody. I have to live with this mistake and hope there was never a horrible outcome that came of it.

 

30,000 die from car accidents. Over two million are injured. That fact alone proves you wrong. Not to mention all the people who died from smoking and alcohol.

How do you know that? How do you know that those countries always had that low of a gun death rate even before the restrictions?

 

Again, no it cannot. However being born to poverty isn't genetic. The parents or grandparents made bad life chioces.

See above.

That's if you're born into such a situation. People who were born to middle class parents become poor through their own choices.

There is a mechanism. Turn it over to the private organizations.

No, but they can greatly influence it.

 

That most likely happened because those private companies got to big for their britches. They thought they could be as big as the government but failed.

 

No, I'm simply saying that most are the results of their own actions. Now I would support them if I'm able.

Where did I said that?