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What Is Time?




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#1 Bud D

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Posted July 23 2016 - 02:37 PM

Is time just the rate in which things move? Is there a way to validate that time exists without anything moving or movement being measured?

Gravity slows down time as does moving faster. But if there was no movement of any particle would there still be time? Perhaps time is just a theory. A perspective to measure the rates of movement into a communicable idea.

Edited by Bud D, July 23 2016 - 02:38 PM.


#2 ʈuɱɓɭiɳɠ.ƌičɛ

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Posted July 23 2016 - 02:40 PM

Time is the dimension in which entropy always increases.  I think I read that in A Brief History Of Time by Stephen Hawking.


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#3 Bud D

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Posted July 23 2016 - 02:47 PM

That's the human perspective that things get more chaotic, with our attention span. How is time a dimension in not a figurative manner?

#4 ʈuɱɓɭiɳɠ.ƌičɛ

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Posted July 23 2016 - 03:00 PM

Well, my limited understanding is that it takes four dimensions to "locate" an event: 3 dimensions to place it in space and one dimension to tell when it occurs.  Every event has a unique set of coordinates in "space-time".  I'm not a rocket scientist however, I just understand this stuff the best I can.


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#5 Bud D

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Posted July 23 2016 - 03:12 PM

So time is a locating principle?

I read wiki entry for time and it's hard to think of it as a substance anymore.

#6 relaxxx

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Posted July 24 2016 - 02:21 PM

 But if there was no movement of any particle would there still be time? 

Not only would there be no time without movement, there would be no particles. There wouldn't even be space for a particle. Nothing would exist without time, not just "nothingness" but absolute NOTHING. Space-time isn't just a fun thing to call space and time. They are bound, it actually should be called space-time-energy, they are all aspects of the same thing. To be even more descriptive maybe, space-time-energy-magnetism-gravity. They are all aspects and properties the same thing, the fabric of space. A particle is really an electromagnetic field. It is literally a moving field of spatial flux. None of these properties can exist without the other.



#7 morrow

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Posted July 24 2016 - 02:49 PM

Time is something developed to control humans when the sun passes by, to make all women be quiet for a few hours, to let everything have a rest, and to stop people bumping into things in the dark!

That's what my grandfather told me as a child, and it still makes sense! :)
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#8 Wu Li Heron

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Posted July 24 2016 - 05:11 PM

John Wheeler famously said, "Time is what prevents everything from happening at once!" Among other things this is a reference to the fact Relativity describes time as possibly being an illusion. Time is the complimentary-opposite of space because a context without any content is a contradiction and the two will transform into one another in extreme contexts. You can't have a perfect vacuum or achieve absolute zero temperature because nature forbids metaphysical extremes such as a context without any content and vice versa. For us to perceive an object as filling space we must also see it as changing in some respect reflecting how the greater context inevitably determines its own content and the line between what is context and content can become blurry. The real question is what is not space and what is not time because the identities of the two becoming conflated makes their flow dynamics or bandwidth more important than their individual identities. A black hole is a good example because, without a surface, its identity is so humble it can only be defined according to its behaviour in different contexts. Whether you choose to call it a cold rock slowly evaporating under its own weight or a hole in space sucking everything up simply depends upon the context.


Edited by Wu Li Heron, July 24 2016 - 05:16 PM.


#9 bourne1978

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Posted July 26 2016 - 09:14 AM

If there was always some sort of activity, then the activity is that time among other immeasureable things, and that time is eternal. This is if time is defined as some sort of motion (which should include all the synanyms (sp?)).

I dont buy that co-existence popped into being. I rather buy that co-existence (which is infinite to include being co-time) is always, and co-existence is supernatural (another thing apart of infinite) to have made this universe, which keeps the reality of what and whom in all that co-existence not accessible from certain of who in all has to be also them, but with just limits so that they don't know yet till the revealing of some kind.

Ask yourselves this: are infinite beings infinite activities, if they didnt just pop into existing?

#10 Moonglow181

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Posted July 26 2016 - 09:18 AM

lol...I don't know...but this dramatic song pops into my head......so the lol right now....


ok, one more try. to get the song I want here....my mouse must have lots of things in its memory...


Edited by Moonglow181, July 26 2016 - 09:20 AM.

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#11 Wu Li Heron

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Posted July 26 2016 - 10:56 AM

Existence and non-existence define one another and the shadow has no meaning outside of the light. Hence, quanta never stop moving completely because motion and the lack of motion define another. The greater context none can see determines its own content no matter how much we might all rant and rave about how unfair life can be. :)



#12 relaxxx

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Posted July 26 2016 - 11:12 AM

Space expands over time, therefor time literally makes space. And vice versa of course but maybe it would be better to call it time-space.

 


Edited by relaxxx, July 26 2016 - 11:17 AM.


#13 Wu Li Heron

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Posted July 26 2016 - 01:25 PM

Relativity implies time is an illusion and everything is geometric equivalences, while quantum mechanics can smash even calculus and Zeno's paradoxes into indeterminate mush. The quantum Zeno effect is a great example. When watched a particle will not move obscuring the distinctions between what is context and content.


Edited by Wu Li Heron, July 26 2016 - 01:30 PM.

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#14 guerillabedlam

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Posted July 26 2016 - 03:09 PM

For an individual, Time is the rate of change in phenomena under 2 or more conditions.

It would sure seem like it, but I don't know if time has a reality outside perception. Seems like a paradox or perhaps straight up unintelligible that something could measure time without being encompassed in time as well.
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#15 Bud D

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Posted July 26 2016 - 03:29 PM

For an individual, Time is the rate of change in phenomena under 2 or more conditions.

It would sure seem like it, but I don't know if time has a reality outside perception. Seems like a paradox or perhaps straight up unintelligible that something could measure time without being encompassed in time as well.

Ya but what I am saying is nothing can measure time that doesn't measure movement.

 

Even something that measures the decay of an element or some other thing measures the movement of particles or energy.  I'm no genius but it seems time doesn't exist.  Things just move and we have timing. 

 

It doesn't seem that time is an independent force.  I have heard of 'time & space' but space just seems to interact in such a way that timing occurs.  Not time itself existing as a force.


Edited by Bud D, July 26 2016 - 03:30 PM.


#16 Wu Li Heron

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Posted July 26 2016 - 04:10 PM

The implication of space and time being indivisible complimentary-opposites is that they form a self-organizing system and we have merely to reformulate relativity and the HUP to express a recursion in the law of identity, but easier said than done.



#17 Bud D

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Posted July 26 2016 - 04:21 PM

The implication of space and time being indivisible complimentary-opposites is that they form a self-organizing system and we have merely to reformulate relativity and the HUP to express a recursion in the law of identity, but easier said than done.

Opposites?

 

How so?

 

They seem to be that one doesn't exist and the other creates systems of interaction that express what doesn't exist.



#18 Wu Li Heron

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Posted July 26 2016 - 04:54 PM

Opposites?

 

How so?

 

They seem to be that one doesn't exist and the other creates systems of interaction that express what doesn't exist.

Space is synonymous with geometry and even Relativity insists that its impossible to have some "thing" that doesn't exist at some "place" at some "time" and vice versa. The two represent the opposites of fate and the random, the alpha and omega. The future's so bright I have to wear shades because the past, including geometry, has no demonstrable meaning without a future.


Edited by Wu Li Heron, July 26 2016 - 04:55 PM.


#19 Bud D

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Posted July 26 2016 - 04:59 PM

Space is synonymous with geometry and even Relativity insists that its impossible to have some "thing" that doesn't exist at some "place" at some "time" and vice versa. The two represent the opposites of fate and the random, the alpha and omega. The future's so bright I have to wear shades because the past, including geometry, has no demonstrable meaning without a future.

Nobody's predicting the future for each and every particle.  It all just goes with the flow, bouncing off each other.

 

I'm saying time is not a thing, not a fabric, but a perspective.  Something we relate to that doesn't actually exist but in our minds.



#20 Lobber

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Posted July 27 2016 - 01:22 AM

Time is three dimensional. There are three dimensions of time. I don't have time to go into it right now. But I will take time to explain time later.



#21 Asmo

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Posted July 27 2016 - 03:57 AM

Time is three dimensional. There are three dimensions of time. I don't have time to go into it right now. But I will take time to explain time later.

 

Can't wait!


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#22 GLENGLEN

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Posted July 27 2016 - 04:07 AM

Time It So You Give Me Plenty Of Time In Advance And I Will Make Time To Read All About Your Time With Time......willy_nilly.gif

 

 

 

Cheers Glen.


Edited by GLENGLEN, July 27 2016 - 04:09 AM.


#23 Lobber

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Posted July 27 2016 - 05:15 AM

Okay, so as you know, time is usually just a single dimension. Okay. Us. The universe. Past, present future.

However, this dimension of time is also aligned, and created, along with space. Spacetime. Thus, the physical universe has it's own dimension of time.

However, heaven also exists. They have time, long before the universe was created. So that's a dimension.

However, God himself has existed for infinity. He has his own dimension of time that he defines.

There's your three dimension of time. God Time, Angel Time, and Universe Time.

Unless you don't think those things you cannot prove don't exist, then just ignore this post.

You have time to think it over.



#24 GLENGLEN

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Posted July 27 2016 - 05:25 AM

How Can You Have "Angel Time"...Angel_anim.gif ...We All Know Angels Don't Wear Watches.....willy_nilly.gif

 

 

 

Cheers Glen.



#25 relaxxx

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Posted July 27 2016 - 12:46 PM

However, heaven also exists. They have time, long before the universe was created. So that's a dimension.

However, God himself has existed for infinity. He has his own dimension of time that he defines.

 

 

You loose.



#26 Wu Li Heron

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Posted July 27 2016 - 03:46 PM

Nobody's predicting the future for each and every particle.  It all just goes with the flow, bouncing off each other.

 

I'm saying time is not a thing, not a fabric, but a perspective.  Something we relate to that doesn't actually exist but in our minds.

Time is Indeterminate which makes it a metaphor and sometimes it will even express self-organizing systems logic. Without change time is meaningless as the Quantum Zeno Effect demonstrates so well.



#27 BongSolo

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Posted July 29 2016 - 08:21 AM

Time is a dot, not a line. 



#28 guerillabedlam

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Posted July 29 2016 - 11:18 PM

Ya but what I am saying is nothing can measure time that doesn't measure movement.

 

Even something that measures the decay of an element or some other thing measures the movement of particles or energy.  I'm no genius but it seems time doesn't exist.  Things just move and we have timing. 

 

It doesn't seem that time is an independent force.  I have heard of 'time & space' but space just seems to interact in such a way that timing occurs.  Not time itself existing as a force.

 

I'm not sure I've heard time referred to as a 'force' before. I think the general idea of time is to consider it more of a dimension, so for instance like length of an object isn't a 'force' but the interaction of the strong force, electromagnetism, gravity and weak force allows us, with our limited perceptual capabilities to draw a line in space which we call 'length' to give us that dimension.

 

From my understanding, the general consensus at the present moment is that, at the beginning of the universe, 3 of the forces can be accounted for to essentially being the same thing. However gravity has somehow eluded present formulas as to being included with the other forces and this is a giant question mark in science as to how this can be. This has led to various other theoretical theories, some of which I'm sure you've heard of (I.E. String Theory) but none have been definitely proven.

 

To go back to my first paragraph, our bodies/beings develop or emerge under specific conditions, where I think the concept of time is inextricably linked to our experience of being human. However, perhaps it's hypothetically conceivable that at some level of reality, time doesn't exist in the same way length doesn't exist. It just seems rather meaningless to me to make such a statement since we will never experience that level of reality as a human being.


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#29 Moonglow181

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Posted July 29 2016 - 11:40 PM

I always thought that time was just a measurement, much like what you just said.

#30 Wu Li Heron

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Posted July 30 2016 - 07:33 AM

I always thought that time was just a measurement, much like what you just said.

 

To say time is merely a measurement is a contradiction in terms that merely begs the question of what is a measurement.

 






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