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You Graduate With A Ton Of Debt And No Experience...solutions?




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#1 drumminmama

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Posted July 21 2016 - 10:29 AM

On many threads here, the facts of staggering debt and a lack of experience leading to not getting hired.

What if experience was wrapped into the theoretical? If every field required a years interning?

What about working for your degree before you enter university?

If the US developed a consistent, and I am suggesting obligatory, national/community service program that had people working for the first two years after leaving school, for some money, but if you are university bound (starting after high school) credits toward education. Public, likely, but the private school could offer to accept them, giving less financial aid as cash.
For those who work two years after university, the credits would pay considerable portions of the debt.
This provides work references, experience, and could be either before or after university, with a possibility of doing two stints. Think of the ROTC and GI Bill models, but civilian. Some medical programs have played with these ideas.

Or a college track that relies on communal housing on campus the whole time (taking rentals out of the financial equation in high rent markets like NYC, SF, Denver, LA and similar)?


What could we do to get more people the skills they need to be their best employed selves?
(The assumption is these are kids who already want college but can't see how)
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#2 MeAgain

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Posted July 21 2016 - 11:57 AM

I've been saying this for years. Something like the CCC. Mandatory military, Peace Core, or Neo CCC or WPA.

 

CCC-Patch.jpg   WPA_worker.jpg

 

But that sounds like socialism.


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#3 Tyrsonswood

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Posted July 21 2016 - 12:04 PM

Mandatory Military?

 

Fuck that shit...


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#4 MeAgain

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Posted July 21 2016 - 12:08 PM

Mandatory Military?

 

Fuck that shit...

But you have the option of going the other way, military, CCC, WPA, Peace Corp, or post high school schooling. 


 

"Acclinis Falsis Animus Meliora Recusat"

(A mind that is charmed by false appearances refuses better things.)

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#5 bourne1978

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Posted July 22 2016 - 05:06 AM

Solution is: Find some people able to start a business for you, and maybe some others, to have a career under them (the employers).

Make pales with people looking to go into business. Your career path might spark their business path in an accordance.

#6 I'minmyunderwear

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Posted July 22 2016 - 06:54 PM

are there really enough jobs that require a college education out there for even more college graduates?  this is a legitimate question, i really don't know the statistics.  it just seems like there aren't that many job openings in fields that require higher education.  if anything, it seems like it's way too hard to get anyone to apply for the jobs that don't require college.

 

like i said, i really don't know, but i feel like the current job market is the main problem with people getting degrees and not being employed, way more than lack of experience.  if everyone had experience, then the available jobs would just go to whoever had a little bit more experience.  maybe if our "non-profit" colleges weren't so concerned with profits, they wouldn't graduate every idiot who is able to pay them for 5 years, and more people would realize that they may be more suited for a trade or even an unskilled job.



#7 HipChris

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Posted July 22 2016 - 07:19 PM

Education is a real issue of importance.

 

The staggering costs are obscene and inhuman. But then again colleges and universities could trim way back on the amenities and focus on education, another good place to start dealing with reality is the extraordinary costs of uni presidents and their mega-salaries.


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#8 drumminmama

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Posted July 22 2016 - 08:32 PM

Well, uni was the last time I had decent health care.
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#9 Pressed Rat

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Posted July 22 2016 - 08:47 PM

College is joke.  The fact that every half-wit attends college these days is telling enough.  It really is a racket, because you pay a whole lot of money, and what you get in return isn't a whole lot.  If you're lucky, you might find a job in your field.  For a lot of people college amounts to nothing more than a whole lot of debt that takes years and years to pay off.  I am a college dropout and proud of it.  I don't make a lot of money, but that simply forces me to live within my means and not accumulate a bunch of material shit I don't really need.  College these days is all about attaining a diploma, and I certainly do not associate those who attend with intellect or real knowledge.  It's sad how people are judged based on if they went to college or not.  I find college types to be some of the most indoctrinated, inside the box thinkers.  It's no surprise since colleges do not teach logic or critical thinking.


Edited by Pressed Rat, July 22 2016 - 08:50 PM.

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#10 Vanilla Gorilla

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Posted July 22 2016 - 11:47 PM

On many threads here, the facts of staggering debt and a lack of experience leading to not getting hired.

What if experience was wrapped into the theoretical? If every field required a years interning?

What about working for your degree before you enter university?

If the US developed a consistent, and I am suggesting obligatory, national/community service program that had people working for the first two years after leaving school, for some money, but if you are university bound (starting after high school) credits toward education. Public, likely, but the private school could offer to accept them, giving less financial aid as cash.
For those who work two years after university, the credits would pay considerable portions of the debt.
This provides work references, experience, and could be either before or after university, with a possibility of doing two stints. Think of the ROTC and GI Bill models, but civilian. Some medical programs have played with these ideas.

Or a college track that relies on communal housing on campus the whole time (taking rentals out of the financial equation in high rent markets like NYC, SF, Denver, LA and similar)?


What could we do to get more people the skills they need to be their best employed selves?
(The assumption is these are kids who already want college but can't see how)

 

 

You are starting off with the assumption that experience is the most sought after commodity. Just because many that get knocked back for positions, if asked, get told "because they dont have experience" or they just assume thats the reason. Doesnt mean its the actual reason they didnt get hired

 

Often that is not the case, if the superior is involved in the hiring process just as likely he/she can be threatened by that experience, prefer hiring drones or kiss-asses, If the hiring is done by HR, they will just follow a formula, certain personality types that will fit the position, people that will be happy to settle for a mundane mid level job, i.e ones that wont rock the boat.

 

Plus its just about supply and demand, too many people go for the degrees they find interesting or think will make them money without knowing or researching if there is an oversupply on the other end. And there never have been enough jobs where a college degree is actually required as opposed to merely its title.

 

And as others have pointed out, the bigger percentage of the population you get into tertiary education, the more it dilutes the value of  an undergrad degree

 

 

You could throw trillions more at the problem

 

....and you will still get the same tiny percentage of students that are going to bust a gut getting honours level,

 

Not that that matters in the end, because when they get out into the real world, its still more about who you know, than what you know, a certain amount of just plain dumb luck, or everyone will just stereotype you anyway, more likely to get promoted by kissing arse or screwing other people over than actually working hard....or getting fired for some other bullshit reason, when its really because some supervisor was threatened by you, or you made him or her lose face in some way

 

You need a certain amount of bullshit politicking skills, that never get taught at college level, to survive in especially large corporate or government situations



#11 Logan 5

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Posted July 23 2016 - 10:20 PM

There is a lot more to going to college than just the degree.  The work, the effort, the people you meet, and how you grow from all of it.  Getting a degree, that's just a piece of paper saying that you've been therre and went through it.  Sure, you have to pay for it.  Sorry it's not free.  I guess that gives you the opportunity to prepare for when your kids go to college.  Set money aside to pay for their tuition books and fees. 

 

I'm 46 and I'm going back.  Sure, I have to pay for it like everyone else.  But when you go to school, you can take what you want, but is it going to pay the bills?  Do not take a degree in basket weaving and expect a career from it.  Aerospace engineering, maybe you'll get a job.

 

I look at it as building yourself.  Yeah, you'll be in debt, but it's also not the end of the world.  It's only the beginning.


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“Becoming a dissident is not something that happens overnight.  You do not simply decide to become one.  It is a long chain of steps and acts.  And very often during this process, you do not really reflect upon what is happening...You don’t want to become involved with the dirt that is around you and one day, all of a sudden you wake up and realize that you are a dissident, that you are a human rights activist.” – Vaclav Havel, former Czech President (1993-2003) & activist

 

We are told to remember the idea, not the man, because a man can fail.  He can be caught.  He can be killed and forgotten.

But four hundred years later an idea can still change the world.

 

"...You can't build a dream, without a plan...." -- Jefferson Starship ("It's Not Over", "No Protection" Album, 1987)


#12 GLENGLEN

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Posted July 23 2016 - 10:29 PM

What Course Are You Going Back For Logan 5...??

 

 

 

Cheers Glen.



#13 Logan 5

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Posted July 23 2016 - 10:42 PM

Engineering.


“Becoming a dissident is not something that happens overnight.  You do not simply decide to become one.  It is a long chain of steps and acts.  And very often during this process, you do not really reflect upon what is happening...You don’t want to become involved with the dirt that is around you and one day, all of a sudden you wake up and realize that you are a dissident, that you are a human rights activist.” – Vaclav Havel, former Czech President (1993-2003) & activist

 

We are told to remember the idea, not the man, because a man can fail.  He can be caught.  He can be killed and forgotten.

But four hundred years later an idea can still change the world.

 

"...You can't build a dream, without a plan...." -- Jefferson Starship ("It's Not Over", "No Protection" Album, 1987)


#14 MeAgain

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Posted July 24 2016 - 04:03 AM

Like all schooling....it's what you make of it.


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#15 Logan 5

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Posted October 18 2016 - 10:38 PM

What I hate is all these young women, bragging about how they've expanded their dating standards to include older men, bbut when I take note of that, they say "older men, yes.  Grandfathers, I don't think so!"

 

Bitches.

 

But damn, some of them are built just sooooo righteously!  Damn!


“Becoming a dissident is not something that happens overnight.  You do not simply decide to become one.  It is a long chain of steps and acts.  And very often during this process, you do not really reflect upon what is happening...You don’t want to become involved with the dirt that is around you and one day, all of a sudden you wake up and realize that you are a dissident, that you are a human rights activist.” – Vaclav Havel, former Czech President (1993-2003) & activist

 

We are told to remember the idea, not the man, because a man can fail.  He can be caught.  He can be killed and forgotten.

But four hundred years later an idea can still change the world.

 

"...You can't build a dream, without a plan...." -- Jefferson Starship ("It's Not Over", "No Protection" Album, 1987)


#16 ʈuɱɓɭiɳɠ.ƌičɛ

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Posted October 19 2016 - 01:36 AM

Really, preparing for the workplace should begin in high school.  Not everyone is going to benefit from a 4-year college degree.  Those students should be identified by their junior year in high school and a career path laid out for them that includes technical training and on-the-job experience while they are still school.  They may still be required to take some courses at a local vocational college but those tend to be quite affordable compared to a 4- year university.


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#17 drumminmama

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Posted October 28 2016 - 08:55 AM

What I hate is all these young women, bragging about how they've expanded their dating standards to include older men, bbut when I take note of that, they say "older men, yes.  Grandfathers, I don't think so!"
 
Bitches.
 
But damn, some of them are built just sooooo righteously!  Damn!

Nose to the books, Logan!

(And wow so sexist)
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#18 drumminmama

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Posted October 28 2016 - 08:59 AM

Really, preparing for the workplace should begin in high school.  Not everyone is going to benefit from a 4-year college degree.  Those students should be identified by their junior year in high school and a career path laid out for them that includes technical training and on-the-job experience while they are still school.  They may still be required to take some courses at a local vocational college but those tend to be quite affordable compared to a 4- year university.


I've lived in areas, usually rural, with concurrent community college hours. Over CCTV, usually, but some busing two days a week for things like automotive tech. Lots of kids managed to graduate with an associates or damn close at high school graduation. That saved them two years' tuition, as the project was state funded.
Blue and white collar degrees/certificates were offered.
One student had completed three years of college credits in two years of high school using summer school options (that the family paid, but it was still less than the same class at a four year uni) and CLEP testing.
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