Let's Discuss An Observers Affect On Atoms

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Moonglow181, Jul 6, 2016.

  1. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    I agree----the scariest thing is someone, or some nation, or some group of people that 'think' they have the blueprint of the universe. This inevitably leads to a utopianist belief, and then an overly reductionist and objectivist attempt to take over and control the world.

    On the other hand, we live in a Modern Culture that has no Unifying Truth, and to the best of our knowledge cultures without Unifying Truths are bound to collapse. I do believe we have a pseudo-truth-----consumerism, and that seems to be sustaining our culture, but it is obviously inauthentic (temporal, shallow, a product of eploitation and objectification...).

    Because we are destroying our world and sucking up all the resources we are in need of a truth that will place us back into nature, as a member of, rather than as 'lord over' nature. Because we now live in a global culture, we also have to find a truth that is not divisive, such as is the traditional dualism and group ethic of Western culture. We need a truth that embraces diversity, and globalism, and is geared to the individual.

    Quantum Mechanics paints a universe of diversity and subjectivity. Our whole reality now is shaped by tiny points of energy that manifest through uncertainty, each carrying its own bit of subjective information, and are in fact barely even there.

    The Information Age is of the same dynamic----Consider that we now live in a world where a good part of the world’s population literally has the world at their fingertips. And it is not like each person has one connection to the whole world around him. I have found even myself, sitting in a Starbucks with multiple windows open on my laptop----one of which I am using to read an online Japanese newspaper, while I stream music from a European online radio station on my tablet, receiving text messages on my phone from my wife, and also a friend in Hawaii, and one in New York, while my Facebook page is on that same phone. (And I’m too old to really know how to do all that.) And around me are various people doing about the same thing.

    You want to know about influencing reality? You can push the enter key on your computer in the heartlands of the US, and cause a computer in China to instruct a factory rising up from between rice fields in a rural province to make one more piece, possibly requiring it to order additional raw materials from both a trading company in Shanghai, and a rubber plantation in Thailand. That extra order of rubber was just enough to allow the family who owns the plantation to forego sending their daughter to work in the sex trade in Bangkok for at least another week…

    (See, you did something good---that will offset the firing of that single mother (struggling to care for 5 children) that you caused last week with that only-satisfactory score on that online survey.) I’m joking! …well not really…

    On the other hand, you might notice how limited our influence is on the massive world wide web. Your online order may make or break a small manufacturing company in a distant corner of the world, or it may be an imperceptible drop in the massive bucket of a multinational corporation with a factory in your home town. We have our little posts on Hipforums, but most of the world will never notice this site. You could post a video to Youtube, and it may get 10 Million views, then again, it will probably have only a hundred.

    This is not much different than the power we have over reality. If every point is subjective, then every point has the potential to change reality around it. There is a freedom, but it is also limited by the 'Other.' I believe that each of us actually have incredible powers to heal and shape the world as we want it-----but the catch is so does everyone else. The bigger catch is the ego---as defined by Jung----is what keeps us in this physical reality, with a focus on the physical. The ego filters out anything and everything that is not pertinent to keeping us within this reality. So we don’t have any real knowledge or belief in who we truly are (a higher dimensional mind).

    And why should we know that? If we had use of our true potentials then what would be the purpose of living? It is like the gambler in an episode of the twilight zone who is upset because he rarely wins. SO he ends up in the twilight zone and always wins, which turns out to be meaningless and boring. If we are truly immortal, then the struggles, achievements, pain, happiness, and the lessons of each life we live must be truly golden. I believe our purpose here is to experience.


    But there is that struggle to achieve individuation----to grab hold of your own destiny and deelop your own potential. To become authentic as Kierkegaard wrote. For Nietzsche it was the ideal Will to Power. Even Carl Jung understood this as the goal of life...
     
  2. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    I don't think there is any dispute regarding brains waves being real energy. The implications that I see in regards to the idea that conscious observation influences particles is that it suggests that the mind is inherently immaterial and essentially "magic" or something along the lines of some aspects of the mind residing in different dimensions. Perhaps the only other explanation, if we are to accept that notion, would be some sort of influence of dark energy. There is a movie called What the Bleep do We Know? which talks about some of the ideas regarding conscious observation. However most of it is generally regarded as pseudoscience.


    This is presumably a child equipped with the biological capacity to understand and process the whole aspect of being watched and reacting accordingly though. Personally, I think that comparison breaks down even before we exit the animal kingdom. I tend to get the impression when I've watched bees, ants, and various other insects, they seem completely oblivious to my existence if I am just sitting and watching them, it's not until there is a direct interaction where they may seem to notice something and even then, some of them like ants, I'm not really confident in their processing that they know they are interacting with another living organism.
     
  3. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Look at it this way....aren't thoughts energy within the brain?...If so, the energy would go somewhere, as energy never dies......right?

    Other than the kind of I think I am going exercising now thought which turns that into the actual exercise, though.
     
  4. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    I observe this on a daily basis. I could be sitting here quietly and I will think of one of my animals, and they show up and look at me ...like, you called? lol
    The energy is close within a household, too.....
     
  5. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    If you are talking about firing synapses and the like explaining thought, presumably the energy would go to other parts of the brain. Also the brain exhibits entropy type qualities, you do lose neurons and there is also synaptic pruning.
     
  6. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    It is my belief that this sort of neo science is still in its state of infancy......mark my words.
     
  7. Wu Li Heron

    Wu Li Heron Members

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    Thoughts are quantum mechanical with Roger Penrose's theory just receiving its first two confirmations this year. What is energy and what is information goes down the rabbit hole or toilet of your preference.
     
  8. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    You got a source?
     
  9. Wu Li Heron

    Wu Li Heron Members

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    http://phys.org/news/2014-01-discovery-quantum-vibrations-microtubules-corroborates.html

    These things are easy to look up using any search engine. Both the origins of our brain waves and memories have remained enigmas for decades, but now we know the human brain is organized as a distributed gain amplifier according to Bayesian probabilities vanishing into indeterminacy. The brain is actually more fundamentally a creative engine that only incidentally resembles a computer. For more information I recommend reading up on Quantum Cognition because the rapidly growing consensus is that even our minds are quantum mechanical.
     
  10. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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  11. Wu Li Heron

    Wu Li Heron Members

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    Wow, I didn't realize it has been two years now. I don't think that much of the specifics of his theory myself, but the fact remains that quantum induced microwave vibrations have been detected in the axions of our neurons and confirmed as the likely sources of our brainwaves and specific types of memory. In addition, the first five neural networks responsible for pattern matching that would be expected in a quantum brain have already been mapped out. Modern science is now poised to begin following Alice down the rabbit hole and a new scientific revolution has begun emerging within the last decade producing the tools to begin exploring macroscopic quantum effects. Already, for example, two types of photosynthesis have been established as incorporating quantum effects and a recent examination of neutrons concluded they can be in superposition for over hundreds of miles. A mathematical study concluded quantum effects at room temperature could be somewhat commonplace in small room sized areas and the next century will prove interesting to say the very least.
     
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  12. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    I only have a passing knowledge of the physics stuff going on here and haven't delved too deep into the studies, so even though general articles are available for these things on search engines, I appreciate all the sources I can get to get a better formed opinion on the research. I believe Max Tegmark, another renowned scientist in Physics/Cosmology suggested (or perhaps elaborated on another study) that the decoherence of Quantum Effects in the brain would happen too rapidly, to make them responsible for "thoughts".

    So I'm hesitant to accept a statement like this..
    If we accept both theories as accurate, then that leads me to believe that perhaps consciousness has some sort of underlying quality to it in the quantum level which gives way to emergent phenomena such as thoughts as well as other mental phenomena. If you think the of the breadth of the animal kingdom this makes sense to me on the surface, as I think it's abundantly clear, there is a spectrum of "thought" process that is apparent as we test different animals, mostly mammals for our defined notions of intellectual capabilities in tasks such as problem solving, memory, etc.
     
  13. Wu Li Heron

    Wu Li Heron Members

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    Consciousness is emerging as another quantum phenomenon with studies already indicating quantum mechanics is much better for describing how people think. Noam Chompsky has been proven wrong as has the idea of a homunculus or whatever. Consciousness outside the context of knowledge is a contradiction with the two transforming into one another in extreme contexts.
     
  14. ElEyeJaw

    ElEyeJaw Banned

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    Spooky Action at a distance has shown us that two things can effect each other regardless of how far away they are from one another, though nobody can agree on what it is that bridges the two.
     
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  15. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    I'd agree.....and I can always feel the energy...well wishes or ill wishes from anyone....too....
     
  16. ElEyeJaw

    ElEyeJaw Banned

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    Spooky Action at a Distance, otherwise called Quantum Entanglement, is now deemed to be scientifically factual, rather than simply hypothetical or theoretical.
     
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  17. Wu Li Heron

    Wu Li Heron Members

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    Action at a distance is merely our inability to distinguish content from context.
     

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