Brexit

I've paid most of it. There were 2 years when I was self-employed I didn't pay. They wrote to me about a decade ago to ask me to pay up about £400, but I couldn't do it at the time as I was very short of money and had big debts to deal with.That was my last chance to pay So I'm probably not going to get the full amount in 6 years time when I reach the magic age.Assuming of course that I last that long.

 

So the referendum was all about sliding the Scarecrow in to Number. Saw it all coming. Brexit was never on the table at any time.

The tories are a shower of lying bastards.

Anyway, doesnae matter a fuck either way. Holyrood, Westminster, Brussels, they're all a shower of cunts.

At least when I renew my passport I'll still get free movement across Europe.

#toryscum

 

Bumping up as this is back in the news with (finally) the white paper and (for this US centric forum) Trumps comments on it.

 

So we still don’t know – we are meant to leave the EU in 8 and a half months and we still do not really have any details.

But whatever way you look at it, this fudge of a white paper is going to have a detrimental economic impact on the UK and there seems to be a lot of hope in it that it will not be even worse than that.

And this isn’t some hard Brexit this is with a rather soft Brexit, which solves none of the division on the right that brought about the original referendum.

We are basically following EU rules with disputes going to the European court although now (unlike before) we will have no say as to what those rules might be. This also hampers our ability to make ‘free trade’ agreements with other countries.

I heard one supporter say we could reduce tariffs on goods coming into the UK, we wouldn’t be able to send them onto Europe so basically that would undercut any domestic manufacturing base we had yes there would be a short term advantage to consumers but at the price of long term ruin.

But there are many that still say we could get a better deal if we head for a hard Brexit which would be far far worse, they scoff that the EU would lose out economically if we left - the problem with this is that will it would cause some economic pain to some countries in the EU and an inconvenience to others it would be utterly disastrous for the UK.

It’s like saying ‘ok I’m going to blow my brains out and you’ll be sorry because you’’ll get blood on your cloths and have to get them dry cleaned.

But we still don’t know because even the things suggested in the white paper are only a proposal, a negotiating position and is like to change again – 8 and a half months and counting.

 

Well it seems from his latest remarks that Trump would rather have Boris as PM than May, and he's criticized her white paper.

Tough for May, as she's hoping for big trade deals with US to keep us afloat after the Brexit debacle is finally settled, if indeed it ever will be..

One thing I think is for certain, Cameron's idea that having the referendum would settle divisions in the tory party couldn't have been wider of the mark. They're now more divided than ever, and really, it's descending into farce. Maybe in the end their party will split over this.That is certainly to be hoped.

I doubt that any way out of this mess is going to be found that isn't going to lead to deep damage to the UK economy. Down the drain by the look of it. The only beneficiaries are likely to be wealthy investors and so on who will make billions out of the mess whatever happens.

 

Well, he won't be Pres. forever. Either he will be impeached or we will be stuck with him until someone else is elected. How long will Theresa May be Prime Minister?

 

Soul

Under the fixed term act 5th May 2022 is the date for the next general election, but a party can call an election anytime also the fix date is for the government not the PM, a political party can change its leader at any time it wishes.

So the answer is I don’t know.

As to trade deals they are infamous for taking a long time to sort out. I think the US-EU trade talks for TTIP have been going on for about five years and haven’t got close to an agreement yet (stalling in 2017) I believe there is even talk a starting again from scratch.

We could crash out of the EU in 8 and a half months.

 

Comedian Dara O’Brian on the white paper “if this is where you are starting in a negotiation when Britain leave we’ll be speaking French”

 

A future US administration might not be in any hurry to give the UK a trade deal, as most sensible politicians would probably argue that Brexit is a needless self-inflicted wound, and probabaly it's a whole lot more convenient for America to deal with the EU as a block in any trade deal. That seemed to be the line coming from both Obama and Hilary before DT's election.

As for May - it 's hard to say how long she 'll last as PM - it depends on her party and if she can avoid a big rebellion from the hard right over Brexit.

 

Bill

I agree I mean the UK is seemingly going to have to follow the EU rules for goods (and probably services) so the only reason to have a separate treaty with the UK is to basically screw us over, make us accept rubbish goods and get us to dismantle the NHS by forcing us to accept US style private healthcare.

The thing that gets me is that after all this the polls are still pretty even.

Maybe I shouldn’t be that surprised, the majority of the newspapers (mostly owned by rich people) are ideologically neo-liberal so still pushing the myth of the ‘free market’ and a ‘socialist’ EU wishing to strangle England in ‘red tape’. As to the BBC it’s so worried about been impartial that in a debate between good and evil it would go soft on evil just so that people didn’t think they sided with good.

I saw one interview with a couple of leave voters who when explained that a ‘hard’ breixt would most likely result in economic chaos, possible food shortages and people losing their jobs, just shrugged and said ‘but it will keep out the immigrants’. They also mentioned the supposed erosions of ‘British culture’ which has become code for Muslim immigrants which in the case of Britain don’t come from Europe but from the Indian subcontinent.

I’ll try and find the figures but I heard that migration from the EU has fallen but it’s up from other places.

 

The EU and Japan have just signed a free trade deal which encompasses nearly a third of the world's GDP.

And we won't be in it.

 

Time to establish barter groups.

 

Ok so now we have rumours of the UK government stockpiling against the possibility of Brexit disruption, plans to turn motorways into lorry parks and warnings of civil unrest, still no details on what the UK will be doing after we leave and Brexiteers already blaming the EU for any hardship the UK people might feel for the madness they promoted.

Warning…warning….self-destruct in T minus 8 months…..warning….

 

Quite the shit show across the pond, no matter which side of it you stand on.

 

It has been handled really poorly and we frankly don’t have the politicians up for the job. A hard Brexit is what’s needed in my opinion. Britain free to decide her own destiny should have always been the way.

It’s not hard to see why the older generation are so bitter about the whole thing when you look into the common market vote of 75. People voted for a free trade agreement, not to sign away sovereignty and become part of a European political union. It’s criminal we were never offered a vote on everything that came after 1975. If we were then we wouldn’t be in this mess today.

 

What specifically can Britain not do regarding her sovereignty? From this outsiders perspective this looks like a major hassle to British trade (since EU guidelines must still be followed to trade with EU nations) as well as a potentially destabilizing element to the peace established post WW 2.

I know much criticism can be said of my own homeland, but the last thing anyone wants is a resumption of western European nationalism. It tends to go badly for the rest of us.

 

There’s many things Britain can’t do whilst confined to the shackles of the EU. For example, whilst a member of the European Union she is unable to form any trade deals with other nations outside of it. Many laws that affect our everyday lives are decided through the European Parliament by unelected bureaucrats whom we don’t vote for. In my opinion any laws or regulations that affect Britain should be decided in Britain, by democraticly elected politicians who the people have voted in.

I briefly mentioned this above, the the other thing that really enrages me is the fact that all these high profile EU politicians are not voted in. They are all appointed. I never voted for Juncker, verhofstadt, Tusk or any others, and I don’t have the option to vote them out either. How can that be right? It’s not remotely democratic and basically it stinks. I despise nearly everything about the EU and quite frankly can’t wait to leave.

 

As for the WW2 stuff, well it was only ever really one country wasn’t it. I’d like to think they’ve moved on a bit from mass genocide and trying to exterminate an entire race.

Brexit is a concern, I’m not for a second saying that it’s all going to be plain sailing. I firmly believe it’s a case of taking the rough for th smooth. So far from an economic point of view I think it’s fair to say it has all gone better than most expected. I’m old enough to remember the scare mongering nonsense spouted when we never joined the European single currency. That didn’t go too bad either.

 

The second time around, yeah... But that wouldn't have happened without the first.

Personally, I really detest this dismantling of the coming together of western nations that has developed. Maybe everything will be fine. But this nationalism taking hold in the anglosphere and really across the globe feels short sighted, selfish, and dangerous.

 

I won’t disagree with you there. The populist movement that seems to be the norm of late is a cause for concern. Without a doubt it’s fair to
say most racists probably voted Brexit, but the majority aren’t. I’m not a racist or a nationalist, I just support Brexit because I believe my country should be able to stand on her own two feet without interference from unelected bureaucrats who don’t live here.