How Do You Explain To People What They Do Not Want To Understand?

Discussion in 'Agnosticism and Atheism' started by themnax, Oct 30, 2015.

  1. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    I can not talk politics with my republican friends. Ever. Fox "news" is on all day every day in their homes. There is just nowhere to even START a conversation about politics without them making ridiculous (to me) statements before I can even begin explaining my point of view. Therefore, no point can EVER be made with them because they absolutely refuse to listen longer than about 10 seconds before they take over the conversation loudly. This is why we made a pact a few years back to never discuss politics again. And they know to turn off Limbaugh and/or Fox when I show up.

    Some of their statements= Fuck those a-rabs. H-bomb them ALL!

    Fuck the poor= get jobs and they won't be poor.

    "Joel thinks EVERYONE should be on welfare."

    Regarding native americans= "whudyyamean we stole their land? They weren't usin'' it." And so on. If I hadn't know them for decades---------------well --you know.
     
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  2. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    Sounds like there's some wisdom in them left. Not completely unimportant: at least they know how to be friends :cheers2:
     
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  3. heeh2

    heeh2 Senior Member

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    Despite giving philosophy of life a great deal of thought, I sometimes still have trouble convincing myself that I am not the one suffering from a desception.

    I also have trouble agreeing with anyone who denies the experience of another, considering the personal nature of experience in the first place.

    I meam sure, the world has liars in it who just make things up and evil individuals who hurt and pay no mind to others but I work very closely with dangerous, "mentally unstable" people and the only way to avoid the negative effects of their presence is to invalidate the "negative" aspect.

    They might do something to try and hurt you but they are natural phenomena just like you are. Like a snake or a black widow spider.

    Ultimately they are a part of you. And I think its better to love them for what they are instead of trying to change them into what we think they should be.

    We are apes first and foremost. If you can look at your fellow man and see an imperfect animal making ape noises that we call language, as ignorant as any other ape on this moat of dust we call earth floating through an incomprehensible amount of space that came from what is beyond our speculative capacity.

    I dont mean to sound like I am high and mighty or better than anyone. But I am not entirely convinced that most people know what makes them happy. We take credit from others and in effect, we take credit from ourselves.
     
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  4. Emanresu

    Emanresu Member

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    Many people are beyond reach because they lack the capacity to be moved by rational argument. Many others put themselves beyond reach by refusing to acknowledge rational argument. For these nothing can be done. However that does not mean that the only recourse is to say nothing while nasty thoughts continue to spread. I do not attempt to win arguments with such people because they will not change their lives. I will however argue with them for the benefit of anyone who is listening who has not made up their mind. I believe it is possible to influence people massively by being the calm voice of reason against a hostile advocate of a fundamentalist position.

    I remember one time in particular when I challenged a person who casually made an anti gay statement. There was a small group of people hanging out and when the hateful and ultimately stupid statement was made the others nodded silently in agreement. I challenged the position rationally and calmly, without making any accusations or attempting to appear superior in any way. I of course did not change this person's mind, but two of the others who had nodded in agreement ended up agreeing with me.

    So to answer the question directly: You completely give up on convincing the person who does not want to understand and realize that you are speaking only for the benefit of people who are willing and able to be swayed by reason.
     
  5. Emanresu

    Emanresu Member

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    People are terrible judges of themselves, and this causes so many of life's problems.
     
  6. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Personally, when I was young----I NEEDED to be right much of the time. About 1968 when the ingestion of L became part of my life experiences, the edges of my strong ego got got blown right out the door. Now I'm a good listener and not so right. Exception: I judge the political right harshly------not pre-judge----I don't have to prejudge--I've seen their goals
    and puposes for many, many, many years. Witness the currant crop----it's embarrassing for the US, IMO. So, I harber no illusions concerning the idea of ever changing those types.
    And I really don't care to anyway. What good would it do? Convince people to agree with me? How would that help anyone?
     
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  7. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    I hear you. It is a very lonely road to travel...but someone has to do it.
     
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  8. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    (Current--edit sometimes fails)
     
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