Jump to content


Click to shop at In Harmony Herbs and Spice
Photo
- - - - -

Beyond Earth's Solar System

voyages discovery conquest



  • Please log in to reply
60 replies to this topic

#1 themnax

themnax

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,513 posts
  • Locationa small green planet in a distant galaxy

Posted August 25 2015 - 05:43 AM

if humanity, ventures beyond earth's solar system, with the same arrogant attitude, as exemplified, by america's foreign economic policy, with which europe set sail, less then 700 years ago, to "discover" the western hemisphere, and the rest of our planet, that the universe and everything in it, is somehow ours for the taking, let me put it this way: "god", will NOT be, "on our side".

 

the rest of the universe, which may stretch to infinity and beyond, is there to discover, certainly, but it is NOT there, to be ours to take.

 

bigger, badder, older, more advanced and more powerful civilizations, then anything we can even begin to imagine, we will find, have long since learned to coexist, in cooperation with each other, to protect themselves, from just such evil, as we, with such an attitude, would represent.

 

don't EVEN imagine, that our technology to get us there, when and if, we should happen to develop it, would dazzle a universe unoccupied, or less advanced then ourselves, but rather it would be, more like a band of south american tribesmen, from several hundred years ago, in one small canoe, 'discovering' modern day new york, london, or paris.

 

(the analogy of an ant, crawling up an elephants leg, with rape on its mind, suggests itself)

 

i'm sorry but i belive in a god, or whatever else may happen to exist, that is NOT on the side, of the euro-american attitude, that, we, as humans of planet earth, are any more the end all and be all of existence, then our earth is flat, or the center of anything.


my nation is the imagination

this is the dawning of the age of zootopia

and thank god i'm not quite human

=^^=
.../\...


#2 guerillabedlam

guerillabedlam

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 20,635 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted August 25 2015 - 06:07 AM

 
(the analogy of an ant, crawling up an elephants leg, with rape on its mind, suggests itself)
 


Certainly paints quite the mental image...


It would be disappointing if the traveller's went there just looking to take over but assuming there is no turning back from their trip, I think it would be reasonable to suspect them to have some sort of purpose or agenda on such a journey. This hypothetical will not be realized in our lifetime though so I'm not too concerned about it.

oYIBnFT.png

 


#3 Sleeping Caterpillar

Sleeping Caterpillar

    Senior Member

  • Guests
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,835 posts
  • LocationDenver

Posted August 25 2015 - 06:17 AM

good thing God doesn't exist

 

You seem to constantly forget that we too are animals. And as such compete for survival in which ever environment suits us


giphy.gif

•“Instead of complaining that the rose bush is full of thorns, be happy the thorn bush has roses.” ~Proverb
•Now what we have is choice, to become that which will become


#4 Asmo

Asmo

    Slo motion rider

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 33,643 posts
  • LocationThe pulsing cavern

Posted August 25 2015 - 06:26 AM

if humanity, ventures beyond earth's solar system, with the same arrogant attitude, as exemplified, by america's foreign economic policy, with which europe set sail, less then 700 years ago, to "discover" the western hemisphere, and the rest of our planet, that the universe and everything in it, is somehow ours for the taking, let me put it this way: "god", will NOT be, "on our side".

 

the rest of the universe, which may stretch to infinity and beyond, is there to discover, certainly, but it is NOT there, to be ours to take.

 

First see if we encounter any other life (intelligent or not) out there. As long as that is not the case why is everything that is to discover (in regards to resources) not ours to take?

 

i'm sorry but i belive in a god, or whatever else may happen to exist, that is NOT on the side, of the euro-american attitude, that, we, as humans of planet earth, are any more the end all and be all of existence, then our earth is flat, or the center of anything.

 

Don't apologize for that :P


  • soulcompromise likes this

Posted Image


#5 soulcompromise

soulcompromise

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,410 posts

Posted August 25 2015 - 07:47 AM

I used to think about the likelihood of life on other planets outside our solar system. If you think about the universe as being a multitude of galaxies you might then reason that there must be life on some other planet or planets, however distant. We may never discover it, but it seems so unlikely that we are totally alone in the universe. 


  • Backchat likes this
Posted Image

#6 guerillabedlam

guerillabedlam

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 20,635 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted August 25 2015 - 11:39 AM

I used to think about the likelihood of life on other planets outside our solar system. If you think about the universe as being a multitude of galaxies you might then reason that there must be life on some other planet or planets, however distant. We may never discover it, but it seems so unlikely that we are totally alone in the universe.


I think it's safe to say that within the next few centuries, if not millenia, chances are better that life from beyond our solar system visits us, rather than we go to them. If their evolutionary development is even remotely similar, I suspect they could fuck shit up if they had the capabilities to travel such distances.

oYIBnFT.png

 


#7 Asmo

Asmo

    Slo motion rider

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 33,643 posts
  • LocationThe pulsing cavern

Posted August 26 2015 - 03:11 AM

Even if we get to explore outside of the solar system and if there's lots of extraterrestrial life, there still is a big chance we don't run into them for centuries. So happy asteroid and planet harvesting I would say.


Posted Image


#8 themnax

themnax

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,513 posts
  • Locationa small green planet in a distant galaxy

Posted August 29 2015 - 04:57 AM

while not likely in my personal lifetime, being as i'm already 67 now, but in the lifetime of someone who has just learned how to turn on a computer and gotten themselves an account on hip forums, its not that inconceivable that a human occupied craft will make the ten or twenty year at near light speed trek, to one of the 30 or 40 nearby other solar systems.  (its even not inconceiveable that within their lifetime a way or ways will have been not only found but implemented, to cheat the lightspeed barrier, or even discover that there might not be one).  the odds are actually quite good, for most stars we see, including the closest ones, to have at least one planet in their goldylocks zone, and a very reasonable likelyhood that most of those will have at least the beginnings of some kind of life.  role of the dice of course, how advanced that life might be, but it is reasonable to assume, that IF we reach a world that does have sapient life, indipendently evolved on it, as of course it will be, that there's just as good a chance, they'll be ahead of us as behind. 

 

morally i believe it was a major error for 15th century europe, to assume the western hemisphere was theirs for the taking.  i don't believe its reasonable to assume, that luck, or 'god' will always be, on 'our' side. 

the implications aren't limited to what might happen then, but are also an analog of moral questions our egos motivate us to misinterpret now as well.


Edited by themnax, August 29 2015 - 05:00 AM.

my nation is the imagination

this is the dawning of the age of zootopia

and thank god i'm not quite human

=^^=
.../\...


#9 guerillabedlam

guerillabedlam

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 20,635 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted September 18 2015 - 10:01 AM

while not likely in my personal lifetime, being as i'm already 67 now, but in the lifetime of someone who has just learned how to turn on a computer and gotten themselves an account on hip forums, its not that inconceivable that a human occupied craft will make the ten or twenty year at near light speed trek, to one of the 30 or 40 nearby other solar systems. (its even not inconceiveable that within their lifetime a way or ways will have been not only found but implemented, to cheat the lightspeed barrier, or even discover that there might not be one).

Barring a significant fundamental shift in physics such as discovering there is no light speed and finding a practical way to circumvent that supposed barrier, it seems improbable that anyone currently alive will reach another star's planets.

This is to the closest star...

The Voyager 1 spacecraft is on an interstellar mission. It is traveling away from the Sun at a rate of 17.3 km/s. If Voyager were to travel to Proxima Centauri, at this rate, it would take over 73,000 years to arrive.

So even if we are able to cut that travel speed in half or more, we're still realistically talking about several thousands of years to get to the closest star system.

Edited by guerillabedlam, September 18 2015 - 10:27 AM.

  • porkstock likes this

oYIBnFT.png

 


#10 Moonglow181

Moonglow181

    Lifetime Supporter

  • Lifetime Supporter 
  • PipPipPip
  • 13,508 posts

Posted September 18 2015 - 10:20 AM

Why isn't it all ours to take?

I am saddened by that comment.


How about why isn't it ours to give....if it is ours?

i know the age all debate about survival of the fittest and all, and that is true. I believe one can live sensibly and wisely as if one is no good for themself then how can they be good for anyone else, and all of the the philosophies about it that make sense.

but I can only be selfish and arrogant for so long until i want to cry in the face of all things.
i am not a religious person and do not believe that i will ever be rewarded for being a good person....but being good and caring and loving is its own reward, don't you think?

Edited by Moonglow181, September 18 2015 - 10:21 AM.

  • meeses likes this

#11 themnax

themnax

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,513 posts
  • Locationa small green planet in a distant galaxy

Posted September 21 2015 - 07:18 AM

"if its ours"

 

that's just the point.  it isn't.

 

everything is everyone's, until someone stands over it in an act of belligerence.  or if someone is actually using it for something. 

 

what saddnes me, is the attitude with which the now faided empires of europe, in their days of power, "discovered" the western hemisphere.

 

it is we, who will be the "primatives", sailing our canoes, into a "new york harbour" of civilizations, advanced, powerful, and mostly cooperative with each other, beyond our wildest imaginings.

 

if we think they're "ours" for the taking, we're idiots, and we'll very likely pay the price for being so.

 

what i'm trying to point out, is to be cautious of how ignorant, our, collective arrogance, really is.


my nation is the imagination

this is the dawning of the age of zootopia

and thank god i'm not quite human

=^^=
.../\...


#12 rjhangover

rjhangover

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,494 posts
  • Locationin the studio

Posted September 21 2015 - 07:55 AM

How arrogant is it to think that humanity is intelligent? How arrogant is it to think that this is the only marble in the whole universe with life on it?

This solar system is only one of billions in this galaxy. There are hundreds of thousands of other galaxies. What are the odds that this is the only galaxy, with one single solar system, with one single marble with life on it? It's like believing the world is flat.

 

And what are the odds that no other life can be far more intelligent? What are the odds that there is no reason for any of it? Now that's fucking arrogant!

 

It's like that ant believing that humanity doesn't exist.


  • meeses, Pieceofmyheart and Backchat like this

#13 Asmo

Asmo

    Slo motion rider

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 33,643 posts
  • LocationThe pulsing cavern

Posted September 23 2015 - 02:54 AM

Why isn't it all ours to take?

I am saddened by that comment.


How about why isn't it ours to give....if it is ours?

 

Well, since I was the one saying that (why isn't it all ours to take?) let me explain: there is nothing at all to give anything to on close by planets or asteroids. So that's why it is all ours (inhabitants of earth) to take. So no need to let such harvesting or mindset sadden you :) If we would encounter extraterrestrial life on either a planet or an asteroid this would change of course. But it is simply highly unlikely on the short term.

 

 

How arrogant is it to think that humanity is intelligent? How arrogant is it to think that this is the only marble in the whole universe with life on it?

This solar system is only one of billions in this galaxy. There are hundreds of thousands of other galaxies. What are the odds that this is the only galaxy, with one single solar system, with one single marble with life on it? It's like believing the world is flat.

 

And what are the odds that no other life can be far more intelligent? What are the odds that there is no reason for any of it? Now that's fucking arrogant!

 

It's like that ant believing that humanity doesn't exist.

 

 

Although the universe is so big and there are so many solar systems with planets out there that it is unlikely there is no other life out there somewhere, it is also very likely (because of this vastness) that we will not run into them ever.


Edited by Asmo, September 23 2015 - 02:56 AM.

Posted Image


#14 Pieceofmyheart

Pieceofmyheart

    Grumpy old bitch

  •  Supporters
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,361 posts
  • LocationIn my treehouse

Posted September 23 2015 - 03:17 AM

Very interesting....

 

We simply cannot be all there is and the best there is. If we are "it", that's pretty pathetic, lol.

 

The reason our planet is in the shape it is is because we felt like it was our for the taking...we have used it up and not been kind or thankful.


  • scratcho and rjhangover like this
Remember, no one is perfect, everyone's ass has a crack in it.

#15 Asmo

Asmo

    Slo motion rider

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 33,643 posts
  • LocationThe pulsing cavern

Posted September 23 2015 - 03:21 AM

That's why harvesting raw materials in space is such a great option. If we can do that while progressing to less polluting ways of producing energy/fuel etc. we are far from pathetic. For a bunch of evolved apes we are already doing a pretty impressive job imo. The earth is not uninhabitable yet :P


Posted Image


#16 MeAgain

MeAgain

    Dazed and Confused

  • Super Moderator
  • PipPipPip
  • 7,654 posts
  • LocationNutopia

Posted September 23 2015 - 04:25 AM

The error lies in thinking that we and the Universe are separate things.

 

It is a well-provisioned ship, this on which we sail through space. If the bread and beef above decks seem to grow scarce, we but open a hatch and there is a new supply, of which before we never dreamed. And very great command over the services of others comes to those who as the hatches are opened are permitted to say, "This is mine!" - Henry George, Progress and Poverty 1879

 

We are already traveling through the depths of space on our "Spaceship Earth", out beyond the furthest galaxy, lost in an infinite celestial sea; after all, everything is relative to the position of the observer.

 

And as we find ourselves wandering about the cosmos visiting places to which we will never return, what of it if we find we must restock our Earthly stores from the infinite bounty of the Universe? For unlike the confines of our "Spaceship Earth" the Universe is indeed infinite. And if we should pluck a fruit from this tree or that, there will always be more for the taking!

 

So, I say open the hatch at will and reap the bounty of the stars, after all, we are that very star dust itself! How can we steal from ourselves?

 

“You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean.” ― Alan W. Watts

 


  • porkstock likes this

HYZx5b8.gif

 

"Acclinis Falsis Animus Meliora Recusat"

(A mind that is charmed by false appearances refuses better things.)

~ Horace

 

 


#17 Asmo

Asmo

    Slo motion rider

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 33,643 posts
  • LocationThe pulsing cavern

Posted September 23 2015 - 04:27 AM

I'm 99% dark matter.


Posted Image


#18 hotwater

hotwater

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 23,290 posts
  • LocationNorthern New England

Posted September 23 2015 - 04:46 AM

Quasar, quasar burning bright

In the depths of the cosmic night

What supernatural alchemy

Fuels thy luminosity

 

 

 

 

Hotwater


Never! This is outrageous. I'm through with it. I'll have no more of this hell-spawn!

#19 guerillabedlam

guerillabedlam

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 20,635 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted September 24 2015 - 03:59 AM

Very interesting....

We simply cannot be all there is and the best there is. If we are "it", that's pretty pathetic, lol.

The reason our planet is in the shape it is is because we felt like it was our for the taking...we have used it up and not been kind or thankful.


One thing we often tend to forget when we look out to exploring the cosmos is that we live on a planet where we're not all that is when it comes to life. I think this is a very important thing to keep in mind and relevant to the thread, in fact I would not be surprised if commercial space exploration becomes common place, some other animals will be coming along with us.

I cannot really see what perspective you are coming from where it's 'pathetic' if we are "the best there is." I think it's fascinating to consider the notion that our flavor of consciousness would be such a rare anomaly in the universe. It seems you would have to believe that the Universe is conscious in some way to reach the conclusion that complexity of life has to be graded or held to some measure, but I doubt many who believe in a God would really suggest it's 'pathetic' either, so it's a peculiar statement that perhaps some further elaboration may help clarify what you mean.

Edited by guerillabedlam, September 24 2015 - 08:08 AM.

oYIBnFT.png

 


#20 tikoo

tikoo

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,462 posts

Posted October 03 2015 - 10:47 AM

Our stories are for us alone , and this is how we are alone in the universe . How are

we universal in mind unto One ? Must the answer be lonesomely another story ?

 

I once read an unpublished Ursula Leguin story about alien contact . It wasn't that

informative . She gave the other-worlders a human story to illustrate - something

like , oh , Jesus and the Airplane Gods .

 

Sometimes (rarely) I'll take the Oracle Wheel for a spin and contact 'Alien' . I don't

understand much beyond the answers to Contact made ? and What substance are you ? .

Well , the alien is an understanding/misunderstanding . Not enough context . Still , I

think Universal Mind is an ok assumption . Otherwise  , really , Stay Home !


Edited by tikoo, October 03 2015 - 01:07 PM.


#21 themnax

themnax

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,513 posts
  • Locationa small green planet in a distant galaxy

Posted October 16 2015 - 12:57 AM

i'm not suggesting we should never venture beyond the orbit of pluto/neptune.  that's not my point at all.  what is, is that we need to leave our infantile "god's chosen" arrogance at home if we ever do.

if only because the odds are at least even, if not a great deal more then even, that we'll find it getting punched back down our thoroughly deserving of getting our asses kicked throats, unless we do.


my nation is the imagination

this is the dawning of the age of zootopia

and thank god i'm not quite human

=^^=
.../\...


#22 meeses

meeses

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 260 posts

Posted October 18 2015 - 04:20 AM

Rumours have it that we (humans) already are shooting down (or trying to) other spaceships. That in itself isn't conquering anything but only defending mother earth from malevolent species. That being said, I think some may have made it through the star war screen, let alone if they were already here before the US got set up. :) speculating !



#23 scratcho

scratcho

    Lifetime Supporter

  • Lifetime Supporter 
  • PipPipPip
  • 12,731 posts

Posted October 18 2015 - 11:49 AM

Where would the oxygen be coming from when humans even try to get to Mars, let alone some 73,000,000 mile trip? I think it's all a dream, emanating from grandiose optimism, in which humans stand supreme. Compared to what MAY be in existence, we DO have enough sense to lift our feet when stepping up on a curb without tripping. Well, most of us.

 

 And let's say---for conversation's sake, all barriers to space travel were completely overcome-----and it's time to go. Who goes and who stays? Think you and I would be eligible?

 When this joint has reached or exceeded its limit of habitation----adios elite--have a nice trip.


Edited by scratcho, October 18 2015 - 11:50 AM.


#24 Sleeping Caterpillar

Sleeping Caterpillar

    Senior Member

  • Guests
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,835 posts
  • LocationDenver

Posted October 18 2015 - 12:09 PM

You guys think we'll ever see pictures of the andromeda galaxy in our lifetimes? 

 

And think about how cool it is we can already look at HD photos of pluto (Our FURTHEST planet!) from the comfort of your home:

nh-pluto_crop.jpg.png?itok=oB17-32Q

 

 

Source http://www.nasa.gov/...ages/index.html

 

So of course we have to go beyond our solar system now


  • porkstock likes this

giphy.gif

•“Instead of complaining that the rose bush is full of thorns, be happy the thorn bush has roses.” ~Proverb
•Now what we have is choice, to become that which will become


#25 Asmo

Asmo

    Slo motion rider

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 33,643 posts
  • LocationThe pulsing cavern

Posted October 21 2015 - 03:01 AM

You guys think we'll ever see pictures of the andromeda galaxy in our lifetimes? 

 

 

Yes, but those pictures will be made in our own solar system (on earth or in orbit).


Posted Image


#26 quark

quark

    Just another freak in the freak kingdom

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 398 posts

Posted November 17 2015 - 06:16 PM

You guys think we'll ever see pictures of the andromeda galaxy in our lifetimes? 

 

There are plenty. 

 

http://hubblesite.or...leases/2015/02/



#27 rjhangover

rjhangover

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,494 posts
  • Locationin the studio

Posted November 24 2015 - 11:44 AM

New Horizons, the mission to Pluto has already happend 133 days ago. New Horizons is now headed out beyond our solar system at 36,373 mph

 

 

http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/

 

 

Currently, no spacecraft have yet left the solar system.

The boundaries of the solar system are undefined, but most astronomers believe it is at the point where the Suns gravitational influence has no effect. This is about 2 light years from the Sun.

Voyager 2 - the furthest a man made spacecraft has ventured is only 0.001443 light years from the Sun in 2010.



#28 Irminsul

Irminsul

    Valkyrie

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 15,827 posts
  • LocationBavaria, Deutschland

Posted November 24 2015 - 12:13 PM

CGI.
Red, white, black are our true colours
For these colours we will fight!
Red, white, black will crush the enemy
And will bring back what is right!

#29 Space_Trippin

Space_Trippin

    Member

  • Banned
  • PipPip
  • 123 posts
  • LocationLittle Village, Northern Ontario, Canada

Posted January 12 2016 - 10:46 PM

if humanity, ventures beyond earth's solar system, with the same arrogant attitude, as exemplified, by america's foreign economic policy, with which europe set sail, less then 700 years ago, to "discover" the western hemisphere, and the rest of our planet, that the universe and everything in it, is somehow ours for the taking, let me put it this way: "god", will NOT be, "on our side".

 

the rest of the universe, which may stretch to infinity and beyond, is there to discover, certainly, but it is NOT there, to be ours to take.

 

bigger, badder, older, more advanced and more powerful civilizations, then anything we can even begin to imagine, we will find, have long since learned to coexist, in cooperation with each other, to protect themselves, from just such evil, as we, with such an attitude, would represent.

 

don't EVEN imagine, that our technology to get us there, when and if, we should happen to develop it, would dazzle a universe unoccupied, or less advanced then ourselves, but rather it would be, more like a band of south american tribesmen, from several hundred years ago, in one small canoe, 'discovering' modern day new york, london, or paris.

 

(the analogy of an ant, crawling up an elephants leg, with rape on its mind, suggests itself)

 

i'm sorry but i belive in a god, or whatever else may happen to exist, that is NOT on the side, of the euro-american attitude, that, we, as humans of planet earth, are any more the end all and be all of existence, then our earth is flat, or the center of anything.

First the Vikings discovered over here around 1600 years ago. You sound like a United Stateser. I refuse to call ya an american cause ya all dont own north or south or central america. I'm a canadian and i'm from america... the north one... united states does not own the name america... sorry to spew on your thread but life is funny and the internet is fucked!


"Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty.
Beauty is not love.
Love is not music.
Music is THE BEST..."

Frank Zappa

-----

SpaceTrippin had technical difficulties, but he's back again


#30 themnax

themnax

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,513 posts
  • Locationa small green planet in a distant galaxy

Posted January 13 2016 - 05:16 AM

First the Vikings discovered over here around 1600 years ago. You sound like a United Stateser. I refuse to call ya an american cause ya all dont own north or south or central america. I'm a canadian and i'm from america... the north one... united states does not own the name america... sorry to spew on your thread but life is funny and the internet is fucked!

that's fine, but you seem to have forgotten, the meritime archaic, the contiki people and the bearing ice bridge migration,

(and there may yet have been still others, lost to the mists of time) 'discovered' the western hemisphere, at least ten thousand years before vikings either.

and had their own nations, cultures, and ways of life, just fine, before they were 'discovered' by anyone.


my nation is the imagination

this is the dawning of the age of zootopia

and thank god i'm not quite human

=^^=
.../\...