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#1 Motion

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Posted July 16 2015 - 08:48 PM

I found this interesting.

 

 


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#2 Irminsul

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Posted July 16 2015 - 09:36 PM

I have friends who spent years in college to finish then try and find work and they're always told they need like... experience. You hear that a lot. It's like how can you get experience when no one hires because of a lack of experience.

Seems stupid.
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#3 IRQ42

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Posted July 16 2015 - 09:46 PM

College is about learning and advancing your education, and bettering yourself. Thats what you pay for going to college, to learn a lot and become educated in a field you are interested in. Theres no guarantee that you will "make lots of money", and IMO people that only attend college for this reason probably shouldn't even be there. Some people actually like academics and the "making money" aspects are secondary.
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#4 Vanilla Gorilla

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Posted July 17 2015 - 02:30 AM

I have friends who spent years in college to finish then try and find work and they're always told they need like... experience. You hear that a lot. It's like how can you get experience when no one hires because of a lack of experience.
Seems stupid.


You are supposed to do the work experience whilst at college, often for free

Those that did so will get hired first, that at least know enough about the reality of whichever industry to say the correct things at nterview stage

Basically the ones that dont expect everything handed to them

#5 I'minmyunderwear

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Posted July 17 2015 - 07:02 PM

You are supposed to do the work experience whilst at college, often for free

Those that did so will get hired first, that at least know enough about the reality of whichever industry to say the correct things at nterview stage

Basically the ones that dont expect everything handed to them

 

yes and no.  in theory, and in many cases, the truth is exactly as you just described.  but on the other hand, the graduate assistants when i was in grad school seemed to be the ones that most expected everything to be handed to them.  they basically got the jobs because they went to the same school as undergrads so they already had their jobs by the time the rest of us even applied for the school, and then they spent the next two years bitching about how their 20 hour a week job took up all their free time.  at the same time, a bunch of us were working 50 hours a week while going to school, because we had actual real world jobs, which may or may not have been in the field we were studying, because we may or may not have had experience.

 

so i agree with your first two sentences at least, but there's plenty of exceptions to the last part.



#6 bourne1978

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Posted June 13 2016 - 01:02 AM

I am glad I dropped out of college early on. It is a waste of time and money.

#7 IRQ42

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Posted June 13 2016 - 03:22 AM

When I'm done with my undergrad, or maybe grad school I might just leave this shit-hole of a country for good. Land of the free is a misnomer. "Land of the exploited" would be far more accurate.


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"Real programmers use a magnetized needle and a steady hand"

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-- Richard Stallman


https://github.com/IRQ42/
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#8 Asmo

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Posted June 13 2016 - 04:11 AM

People should check in advance how the job market is or most likely will be after they got their degree. This seems really obvious but apparently most students don't do this.
If the job market is good and there is a demand a college degree but lack of experience will get you a job anyway.

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#9 Karen J

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Posted June 13 2016 - 05:30 AM

People should check in advance how the job market is or most likely will be after they got their degree.

 

The current job market is bad for almost every specialty.  Employers currently don't need anyone coming out of college right now.  We can fill every opening with experienced people.  And it's been that way for several years.

 

Nobody has a plan for young graduates.  Nobody is looking out for their interests.


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#10 Asmo

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Posted June 13 2016 - 07:45 AM

Here it is different but young people still go for the wrong professions/study if they want work in that direction after they got their degree. Too many 'communication' students for example and also the tourist industry is very popular.
Often it also differs per area, its not the same in the whole country. In my area of the Netherlands there's a shortage of painters at the moment but not in most other areas. The same probably counts for your country.

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#11 MeAgain

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Posted June 13 2016 - 07:51 AM

And there you have the problem this country is facing in a nut shell!

 

All this assumes that the only reason to attend college is to get a high paying job, as that is what America is all about...making lots of money.

 

There are specialized schools called vocational schools for that purpose. Look up the word vocation. These schools are designed to teach you a vocation. 

Unfortunately that is what colleges are increasingly becoming, vocational schools not colleges.

 

A college is is an institution that offers a liberal education, that is a well rounded exposure to many different fields of knowledge, as opposed to a vocational school which concentrates on specific job related training.

Colleges typically offer Bachelor of Science or Art degrees, which are not vocational degrees in that course requirements may include history, art, phys. ed., literature, psychology, and other classes not directly related to the major field of study.

 

The primary purpose of a college is not for you to get a high paying job, it's to build well rounded educated citizens that can contribute to and understand the society they are living in, and to understand other societies in the world.

It's all well and good for a country to turn out expert auto mechanics, but it must also produce a portion of society that is broadly educated and can understand the relationships between differing people, processes, and events.

Without a portion of broadly educated citizenry a society will segment and fail.

 

Anybody notice that happening in the U.S.?

 

So the video is wrong in so many ways:

It assumes that the primary purpose of a college is to train individuals for high paying jobs.

It assumes that everyone that attends a college does so to get a high paying job.

It assumes that only way that society benefits is if all its citizens get high paying jobs.

 

Sadly college degrees are not valued as highly as they once were because our society is increasingly becoming more and more segmented and the ability to think is being demonized by many fundamental religious, special interest, political, and conservative groups. At the same time our spoiled youth demands ultramodern college facilities as they can no longer live without air conditioning, private rooms and bathrooms, and state of the art sports and entertainment venues on college campuses. All of which costs lots of money by forcing colleges to upgrade their facilitates to be competitive and thus charge ever increasing entrance fees to stay solvent.

 

When I attended college I lived in a small concrete block room with four electrical outlets, two single beds, two small desks and closets, and two desk lamps. The only electrical convenience permitted was a clock radio and a fan. We had a communal bathroom and shower, and no air conditioning at all. If you wanted to watch TV there was one in the common room on the first floor.

 

Most of the classrooms had no air conditioning and there were no computers, only slate blackboards. But we got a good education at a decent price.

 

But I'm just an old man on a rant.........


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#12 I'minmyunderwear

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Posted June 13 2016 - 05:45 PM

Nobody has a plan for young graduates. 

 

the colleges have a plan for young graduates.  it's called "harass them for donations."



#13 IRQ42

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Posted June 14 2016 - 12:21 AM

People should check in advance how the job market is or most likely will be after they got their degree. This seems really obvious but apparently most students don't do this.
If the job market is good and there is a demand a college degree but lack of experience will get you a job anyway.

 

I'm sorry but I don't completely agree with this sentiment. People should study what they are interested in, what their passion is, not just what the current demand is. When I was in high-school the demand was for advertising and marketing (at least that's the propaganda they were pushing) ... but these are not my interests at all; in fact I despise these things and find them slightly unethical.

 

If you don't love what you do, why do it, you will not be happy in life? People should find their true academic interest and pursue it as far as they can.

 

Besides, money will be irrelevant on day anyway whether before or after the technological singularity (and after the singularity this is certainty.)

 

The top equation is GDP, or output, as a function of technology (the variable A), or technological knowledge, science, engineering, etc as a coefficient of various forms of capital, which is the function (F) inside the equation. Capital is purchased with money. As technology advances, we become more efficient and can produce greater output with less inputs. Over the past 60+ years technology has been growing exponentially, so asymptotically, when technology grows faster than the function (F) you end up with the below, output as a function of technology. And at that point the requirement of capital tends toward zero while technology tends toward infinite, you need so little capital (infinitesimal in the limit of infinity) to produce output that tends toward infinite that the whole concept of money becomes irrelevant. Prices would be infinite (all prices would be the same), while the value of money (1/p) would be as near to zero as possible (infinitesimal) .. and what this really means is that money no longer has any practical purpose, basically at this point what this means is that everything is free, as infinity subtracted from infinity is infinity. At this point the concept of currency is a superfluous one.

 

 

LBbypbr.gif

 

After the semester was over, I had time to actually talk to my macroeconomics professor about this theoretical stuff which she normally wouldn't touch during lecture too much. She said the math was perfectly valid, at least theoretically.


Edited by IRQ42, June 14 2016 - 12:25 AM.

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-- Richard Stallman


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#14 Irminsul

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Posted June 14 2016 - 02:02 AM

I completely agree with not doing a job that you aren't interested in. That would be a big reason as to why people move jobs I'd think.

On the other hand a job is a job, we donate 8+ hrs a day sometimes more...which makes me think you'd better enjoy it all the more lol.

I think really it depends on your values in and of life. If you're just kicking by having fun you can be really successful or you can get by and kick on with some fun, but if you're career minded then you'll have the opposite approach, just disappointing that you can give your heart soul and money into something that may not get you anywhere.

I remember law school, every one wanted to go to law school. Law this. Law that. That was like 60% students in class, the career minded ones mind you. Still, say.. 20+ students minimum from one school in the area that had 3 bigger school 60 people from one suburb. Now there's 50 suburbs that make up the city... And it's a small city.

Its just not a viable option for a career unless you expect the crime rate to sky rocket or your damned fucking good at what you do and know what you know and maybe a little flashy cash on the side to help you get to your objectives.

Maybe the law was a bad example it's just something I noticed.

Personally, I think driving around a van dropping of eBay parcels would be a pretty cruisy fun job at the bottom of huge pay spectrum, but it'd be fun I think. Career opportunity :)

Edited by Irminsul, June 14 2016 - 02:04 AM.

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#15 IRQ42

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Posted June 14 2016 - 02:43 AM

I completely agree with not doing a job that you aren't interested in. That would be a big reason as to why people move jobs I'd think.

On the other hand a job is a job, we donate 8+ hrs a day sometimes more...which makes me think you'd better enjoy it all the more lol.

I think really it depends on your values in and of life. If you're just kicking by having fun you can be really successful or you can get by and kick on with some fun, but if you're career minded then you'll have the opposite approach, just disappointing that you can give your heart soul and money into something that may not get you anywhere.

I remember law school, every one wanted to go to law school. Law this. Law that. That was like 60% students in class, the career minded ones mind you. Still, say.. 20+ students minimum from one school in the area that had 3 bigger school 60 people from one suburb. Now there's 50 suburbs that make up the city... And it's a small city.

Its just not a viable option for a career unless you expect the crime rate to sky rocket or your damned fucking good at what you do and know what you know and maybe a little flashy cash on the side to help you get to your objectives.

Maybe the law was a bad example it's just something I noticed.

Personally, I think driving around a van dropping of eBay parcels would be a pretty cruisy fun job at the bottom of huge pay spectrum, but it'd be fun I think. Career opportunity :)

 

For people with my personality type: work=play. Tech industry is definitely not going to see a decline in demand either. It will likely continue to increase, possibly exponentially. Most people would hate doing math and debugging code all day but to me there's not much I'd rather do than fuck around with computers. So if you pay me to do it, you're basically paying me to have a blasty blast :D


"Real programmers use a magnetized needle and a steady hand"

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-- Richard Stallman


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#16 Irminsul

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Posted June 14 2016 - 01:07 PM

When I had a job I did a lot of bar work. It was like social activity that you got paid for and made friends. Sure it wasn't the million dollar end of the spectrum, but then I never spent money going out with friends because I was paid to stay in with them. :)

Also bar work lands you a job worldwide, whereas your college degree might only be suitable in your country, state, town.

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#17 IRQ42

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Posted June 15 2016 - 04:07 AM

I completely agree with not doing a job that you aren't interested in. That would be a big reason as to why people move jobs I'd think.

On the other hand a job is a job, we donate 8+ hrs a day sometimes more...which makes me think you'd better enjoy it all the more lol.

I think really it depends on your values in and of life. If you're just kicking by having fun you can be really successful or you can get by and kick on with some fun, but if you're career minded then you'll have the opposite approach, just disappointing that you can give your heart soul and money into something that may not get you anywhere.

I remember law school, every one wanted to go to law school. Law this. Law that. That was like 60% students in class, the career minded ones mind you. Still, say.. 20+ students minimum from one school in the area that had 3 bigger school 60 people from one suburb. Now there's 50 suburbs that make up the city... And it's a small city.

Its just not a viable option for a career unless you expect the crime rate to sky rocket or your damned fucking good at what you do and know what you know and maybe a little flashy cash on the side to help you get to your objectives.

Maybe the law was a bad example it's just something I noticed.

Personally, I think driving around a van dropping of eBay parcels would be a pretty cruisy fun job at the bottom of huge pay spectrum, but it'd be fun I think. Career opportunity :)

 

Corporations always need lawyers, as long as there are corporations in your area, there is plenty of crime  ;)

 

I really don't like lawyers, but when ya need a lawyer ... you need a lawyer so it's a good thing lawyers exist.


Edited by IRQ42, June 15 2016 - 04:07 AM.

"Real programmers use a magnetized needle and a steady hand"

In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion ...

If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs.
-- Richard Stallman


https://github.com/IRQ42/
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#18 Asmo

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Posted June 15 2016 - 04:27 AM

Lawyers are like cops, they're not all dislike-able because of their profession.

 

 

I'm sorry but I don't completely agree with this sentiment. People should study what they are interested in, what their passion is, not just what the current demand is. When I was in high-school the demand was for advertising and marketing (at least that's the propaganda they were pushing) ... but these are not my interests at all; in fact I despise these things and find them slightly unethical.

 

If you don't love what you do, why do it, you will not be happy in life? People should find their true academic interest and pursue it as far as they can.

 

I didn't say people should go for something that doesn't suit them at all ;) What I ment with my examples is that these students don't go for their true passion or something, they go for the seemingly fun and/or doable job. There are too many people aiming for a job in the service industry (not sure its called it like that in english, hope you get my gest), not because it is their dream or something. But because it is cooler and easier than being a carpenter or welder etc.

Here it is for example the fashion industry that draws a lot of young women to the same education and leave them unemployed or if they're lucky work in a clothing store selling clothes after they get their degree (or they get a job in an entirely other field of work like behind the bar :P). It is simply so that not every girl that is into fashion and would like to be a designer of some sorts can get a job as a designer. Going with 1000's to the same education and be oblivious to how many jobs there actually are in that field is simply a setup for failure for most.


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#19 IRQ42

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Posted June 15 2016 - 05:42 AM

Lawyers are like cops, they're not all dislike-able because of their profession.

 

 

Kinda like, when you need a cop you need a cop. I respect honest police work, and solving actual crimes against person and property, which is the reason we need police, and forensic science i respect. I don't think all cops are bad, but the justice system is definitely corrupt and their priorities are in the wrong place right now for sure (like rape cases get backlogged because they are harder to solve than busting teenagers with some weed or a few hits of acid ...) I mostly dislike corporations, because they do things that should be criminal if they didn't have tons of money for lawyers. I hope this comes through clear. I don't disagree with you here though.

 

I can tell you one thing though, I respect lawyers and honest, ethical police officers LOT more than people in advertising and marketing.

 

There are too many people aiming for a job in the service industry (not sure its called it like that in english, hope you get my gest), not because it is their dream or something. But because it is cooler and easier than being a carpenter or welder etc.

 

 

Well, I don't have much respect for the "service industry". Advertising and marketing probably fall into what you call the service industry, and much of this is pure scam that ought to be criminal. Cold calling and unethical sales tactics to try to screw people out of their money and get them to buy things that they don't need, etc. I won't go on and on about this. But I respect welders, etc because they actually help build things that are useful (and welding is a brutal job, it takes some skill to do a weld that won't eventually fail after 100 years, but the conditions are brutal, extreme heat, extreme cold, and welding fumes etc). IMO the people that make commercials and such ought to be taken out back and shot between the eyes. Okay, that was hyperbole for sure ... but you see what I'm saying ;)

 

A useful and good product or service sells itself, and doesn't need manipulative marketing practices to sell you some dog shit. How many Apple commercials do you see on TV? How many commercials for computers do you see on TV, HP, Compaq, Sony, Broadcom, Texas Instruments.

 

Ever seen Texas Instruments make a commercial trying to sell their TI-84 calculator? NO! You don't. I wonder why? I have one, its a great calculator, you can even write your own programs for it if you want, yet I've never seen a commercial for a TI-x, or any other graphing calculator in my life. BTW, calculators aren't the only thing TI makes, they are semiconductor company and make things like embedded microprocessors, shift registers, logic gates, etc, and I've used some of these things yet I've never needed a commercial for some reason to tell me what chips i need to buy build some device (corporations don't want you to build your own stuff ... heh...they want you to buy their stuff with built in planned obsolescence).


Edited by IRQ42, June 15 2016 - 05:45 AM.

"Real programmers use a magnetized needle and a steady hand"

In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion ...

If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs.
-- Richard Stallman


https://github.com/IRQ42/
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#20 Asmo

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Posted June 15 2016 - 05:50 AM

Another thing is: if a student is indeed really passionate and motivated about something they can indeed try and go in such a crowded field of work. The thing is: a lot of people going for such popular educations and job directions are not that passionate about that field of work. They are often too young to know their true passion where it comes to a profession. It's often like well if I have to pick a direction I go with fashion/video game design/tourist industry/etc. etc. as well, because that seems like it could be my passion!

See what I mean? Those people, looking to find their way in life and perhaps their career should think twice about going for such a degree.


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