Sharia Law

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Nerdanderthal, Jun 16, 2015.

  1. Nerdanderthal

    Nerdanderthal Members

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    Let us put aside for a moment the chances of Muslims actually becoming the majority in the US.

    IF they did become the majority, do you think they would start to work toward breaking down the barrier between mosque and state? The UK is in much more danger of things like this coming to fruition. There are already sections of London that are so thoroughly Islamic that the British government is hesitant if not unwilling to interfere with community matters. It's well known and clear that Muslim parents have far, far more children on average. Let's roll the clock forward 100 years and let the population trends play out. What do these areas look like?

    My guess is most people would proclaim that moderate Muslims are good decent people who would never resort to Sharia Law. Does anyone worry about Muslims gaining control of government bodies? What would Islam do if it could do?
     
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  2. IMjustfishin

    IMjustfishin Member

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    first of all, their philosophy is clear in its intentions to rule the world under sharia law, theres no questions about that.

    second, islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and in some parts of Europe there are reports of Mohammad being the most popular baby name like 4 or 5 years running.

    if these trends continue, and i dont see anything stopping them, some parts of europe will inevitably be "islamified".

    in my opinion, i think the same thing will happen in the US because they have an upper hand, legally. muslims can legally enter the country, they can get jobs that influence public opinion and policy and i don't see anything stopping them, except educating religion out of our population.

    as far as moderate muslims go, they are irreverent, im sure they are nice people, but we are worried about the radicals who are estimated to be around a quarter of all muslims, and when were talking about a population that is over 1.5 billion people, that number is huge.

    the fact is that radical Muslims population is about the size of the united states or more, and they are the ones that want to rule the world, and they are also the ones who are the leaders and are driving the muslim movement. this is an important fact that deserves allot of attention: the peaceful population is irrelevant because the radicals are the ones driving the Muslim movement.

    i think that they have numbers and time on their side. what do we have? richard dawkins trying to educate people? i hate to say it but its not looking good for us, the sane side of the world.
     
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  3. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    In certain European countries they aren't legally allowed in and to be handed a job. They have to have a contributing job to drive the economy. Much like Japan who are almost 100% closed off on Muslims. I'm pretty sure the Danes have strict immigration policies regarding it all, the rest of Europe will awaken in that light once enough is enough. And I honestly feel like it'll kick off next door in Poland. They seem to be losing a lot of patience with the whole agenda and constant militia and protest rallies on the daily.

    Europe. :)
    Europe. :)
    Europe. :)
     
  4. IMjustfishin

    IMjustfishin Member

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    this is a bit off topic, but what is a "contributing job to drive the economy"?? isn't that any job?
     
  5. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    I'm not sure, you'd have to look into the immigration policies of Japan. But let's just say, they won't be handing out a telephone job so that a family can move into the country.

    There'll be a time when the western world has had enough. There'll be no Muslim religious world. It won't happen. They don't have the bombs. ;)
     
  6. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Pakistan has the bomb.

    Question, what are we afraid of when we hear the words instituting sharia law? I think there is something to fear in the way we prosecute each other regardless where the laws come from and I point to draconian drug prosecutions and sentences, or legal surveillance. Or the legal designation, illegal combatant or terror suspect.
     
  7. AceK

    AceK Scientia Potentia Est

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    this is the most likely to happen, once religion finally goes bye-bye maybe we'll be able to set some better goals.
     
  8. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

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    The moderates (of any religion) are enablers of the radicals, because they argue for religious rights that allow the radicals to perform their missions. I don't even mean actual federal laws, I also just mean public discourse. Think about the taboo against speaking against theism in public, on television, in politics; this is because of mostly moderate religious folk. The real Paradisers are too busy soldering C4 to blasting caps in caves, but the liberal, educated, post-modern religious who fight for universal rights for religion are really paving the road for their cousins who, as soon as they were to have power, would execute them ironically.

    "The difference between a moderate muslim and a fundamentalist muslim is this. The fundamentalist wants to chop off your head. The moderate wants a fundamentalist to chop off your head."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCM2rU7mFKk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46nh8_BK7ok
     
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  9. Nerdanderthal

    Nerdanderthal Members

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    Let's all get a little more familiar with some of the Sharia practices.

    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_law

    • The minimum age of marriage for females is nine, for males is twelve.[3][4]
    • A Muslim minor girl's father or guardian may arrange the marriage of a girl, without her consent, before she reaches adulthood.[5]
    • An adult man cannot marry an adult woman without her consent. An adult woman requires her wali's - father or male guardian - consent to marry, in following schools of sharia: Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali and Jafari.[5]
    • A man can divorce his wife any time he wants, without reason. A woman cannot divorce her husband without reason. She may file for divorce for reason, such as he is impotent, missing or biologically related to her.
    • A Muslim man can marry four Muslim women with their permission, only if he can support them financially and equally. A Muslim woman can marry only one Muslim man.



    Sharia recognizes three categories of crime:[8]
    1. Hudud: crimes against God with fixed punishment
    2. Qisas: crimes against Muslims where equal retaliation is allowed
    3. Tazir: crimes against Muslims or non-Muslims where a Muslim judge uses his discretion in sentencing
    Hudud crimes are seven:[9] theft, highway robbery, zina (illicit sex), sexual slander (accusing someone of zina but failing to produce four witnesses), drinking alcohol, publicly disputing Imam, and apostasy (leaving Islam and converting to another religion or becoming an atheist).

    Sharia law does not allow Muslims to leave Islam, in order to become atheist or convert to other religions. This is strictly forbidden, and is called apostasy. In Muslim theology, apostasy is a crime against God. The punishment for apostasy is death for Muslim male apostates. The major schools of sharia law differ in their punishment for female apostates: Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali sharia requires execution of female apostates, while Hanafi and Jafari sharia requires arrest, solitary confinement and punishment till she recants and returns to Islam.[21]
     
  10. HeathenHippie

    HeathenHippie Member

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    I don't really see how it's any different from Christian reconstructionism/dominionism. Same:same unless you're a Christian or a Muslim.
     
  11. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    So? Our law system has different levels of offense from misdemeanor to capital offenses. Many law systems met out punishment for acts deemed fundamentally culturally offensive like crimes against the state. Systems of laws of compensation and statutes governing relations are a cultural disease/symptom meant to address a degree of social disorder. This is so whether the law is secular or religious the difference being the state assumes the role of absolute moral authority as opposed to the religious hacks. They even have their crime of disloyalty against the state religion, apostasy, in the form of treason.
     
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  12. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Do you really forsee that happening? People seem to be hanging onto their religious idealogies more than ever.
     
  13. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Nerd

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]I live in the UK and that does not seem to be true - please cite source. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]Well known by who and clear to who - please cite source [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]At the moment Muslims made up 4.4% of the UK’s population (United Kingdom census 2011)[/SIZE]

    There are a lot of scare mongering stories in the right wing press in the UK that like to push the ‘Muslim tide’ but it’s just part of the whole conservative Little England ethos they like to promote.

    *

    fishin


    Can you please cite the evidence for this?

    There was a false claim that Mohammad was the most popular boys name in Britain but it turned out to be from some internet baby naming site that nobody had heard of and the National Statists Office [2013] top ten results are -

    Oliver
    Jack
    Harry
    Jacob
    Charles
    Thomas
    Oscar
    William
    James
    George
     
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  14. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    I’m an atheist and as such I’m opposed to religion be it Christian, Islam or Hindu or whatever but there is a difference between scaremongering and the promotion of fear, distrust and even hatred of ‘others’ and rational and reasonable debate.

    It seems to me that people like Nerd and Fishin are more about the former and not interested in the latter.
     
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  15. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

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    Islam is far more open regarding military dominance of non-believers. In christianity you can at least argue that we must be like jesus; gentle meek and mild. But who is the muslim's role model, the great warlord muhammad?
     
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  16. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    It seems to me that a lack of understanding of moderate muslims and a fear of the worst sharia law COULD bring is making people so scared and extreme anti that they make ridicilous assumptions and convictions about an enormous group of people that consists just as much of individuals as everybody else.
    About what happens in a 100 years from now in a country that now has some muslim immigrants? Nobody knows, but if such countries and their people guard their acquired rights and norms and constitution there is no need to justify fear and hatemongering against immigrants because of their religious affiliation. Mind you, if they have partaken in dubious actions this can change, just like with people without such affiliation. It is about this horrible stance against moderate muslims that make people seem just as extremist in their thinking as a nazi.

    Anyway, isn't the american constitution and aren't traditional rights and norms shat on by fellow americans of any kind daily? Why does that seem not as bad? Probably because people don't have a fucking clue and are scared. The US especially should be for everyone. Remember what rights your country and people are supposed to care about :p People who are so scared of a certain group of people (and once again, to be overly clear I am not talking about those muslims who DO or did partake in dubious actions) that they wanna exclude them and rule them out are raping their own country and constitution. IF it gets brought down they were an active part of it :p
     
  17. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    Names of 5 kings and one lord protector - imaginative hey? My guess is that 'Oscar' will become less popular now in the wake of the Pistorius affair.

    But I agree Balbus - the right wing media want to sell their papers and so the public are fed these scare stories.

    On the other hand, I think that the Muslim population will increase, and they will want a bigger voice. In 100 years, I doubt 'Britain' as we know it will exist anyway.
     
  18. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    extremism in any religion and on every level often seems to be a result of very little in the way of education - the taliban, for example, grew out of mountain people who weren't formally educated in anything but Islam. They were also very cut off from the more cosmopolitan and secular Kabul.

    so I think the answer depends on how well Muslims are integrated into American society. First generation immigrants often have problems integrating into American society but if second and third generation immigrants are attending American schools and making American friends I dont think extremism will ever pose a real threat.

    in general education is always the best possible antithesis for religious fundamentalism or extremism.
     
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  19. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    Good points. In the UK there is definitely a problem with Muslims not integrating into 'mainstream' society. In effect we have high concentrations of Muslims in some areas, and they tend to keep to their own values and their own communities. Not all are that way. Some seem well integrated.

    But where large communities exist, we also have 'faith schools' which are Muslim in orientation, so the kids are being taught Islamic values at school.

    Also, the guys who blew up the London tube were quite well educated.
     
  20. Nerdanderthal

    Nerdanderthal Members

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    2 people like this.

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