Spirituality Without Religion

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by IMjustfishin, Mar 3, 2015.

  1. IMjustfishin

    IMjustfishin Member

    Messages:
    1,255
    Likes Received:
    194
    1) can there be spirituality without religion?

    2) what is the definition of "spirituality"?
     
  2. Fairlight

    Fairlight Banned

    Messages:
    5,915
    Likes Received:
    302
    Yes certainly possible.You can find it in nature,in your soul and willpower,and in your own personal philosophies which will evolve as you grow,outside the terms and conditions of the canon of conventional philosophies.You can take solace in the true uniqueness of the reality of your being,and realize that you have as much right to be here as anyone else.If you choose to meditate you can align your consciousness with the all-embracing cosmic harmonics of the celestial vibration,and see that this is your home,for now.Meditation is not even required for this,just be open to the right channels in your own heart and mind.No religion or putative God is required.
     
  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    19,783
    Likes Received:
    13,802
    Religion is merely an organized attempt at spirituality, once, twice, thrice removed from the original spiritual experience.

    Like freezing a whirlpool in an attempt to understand its dynamics.

     
    4 people like this.
  4. Joker8six

    Joker8six Members

    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    38
    hey =), very nice previous posts. We are the spirit. our real identity is spirit soul. our orgin, or where we came from is refered to as the spiritual world, and its explained that the spiritual world consists of
    3/4 of entire creation. And the material creation, in which we, me and u, currently live in is called the material world, the entire universe with trillions and trillions of galaxies and planets. that scien(tests so far estimate to be unlimited, is actually limited, there is multiple sources that have extensive factual knowledge of the material and spiritual creations. According to the vedas in . (ahttp://vedabase.net/sb/2/2/28/en) : the extent of the cosmic phenomenon is calculated to be diametrically (both ways) four billion miles. Then the coverings of the universe begin. The first stratum of the covering is calculated to extend eighty million miles, and the subsequent coverings of the universe are respectively of fire, effulgence, air and ether, one after another, each extending ten times further than the previous.. Hehe ok sry . BuT also, the soul. originated in spiritual world, has falleN into material atmosphere from the spirital world, due to his desire to serve him self. so muxh more compleX but thats another discussion. The soul is the size of one ten thousands the tip of a single strand of haiR.The Katha Upanishad relates that within the body, higher than the senses and the sense objects, exists the mind. More subtle than the mind is the intelligence, and higher and more subtle than the intellect is the selfor soul. That sel. Or spirit soul is hidden in all beings and does not shine forth.From this we can understand that within the gross physical body, composed of various material elements, such as earth, air, water, etc., there is also the subtle body composed of the finer subtle elements of mind, intelligence and false ego. The psychic activities take place within the subtle body. It is also within the subtle body wherein exist the memories of past lives, however deep they may be. Yet, the living being has his spiritual form that is deeper than this subtlety, otherwise he could not have repeated births. A person actually sees his spiritual self as well as the presence of the Supreme Being when he perceives that both the gross and subtle bodies have nothing to do with the pure, spiritual self within. Therefore, it could be asked that since we are separate from the gross and subtle bodies, why do we so strongly identify with the material body? It is explained that though the material body is different from the soul, it is because of the ignorance due to material association that one falsely identifies oneself with the high and low bodily conditions.
     
  5. Joker8six

    Joker8six Members

    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    38
    Please accept my humble obeisance. All glories to Srila Prabhupada

    At the present moment, no one actually knows the meaning of religion. Religion means to abide by the laws of God, just as good citizenship means to abide by the laws of the government. Because no one has any understanding of God, no one knows the laws of God or the meaning of religion. This is the present status of people in today's society. They are forgetting religion, taking it to be a kind of faith. Faith may be blind faith. Faith is not the real description of religion. Religion means the laws given by God, and anyone who follows those laws is religious, whether a Christian, a Hindu, or a Muslim.

    The religious system might have been misused, but that does not mean that religion should be avoided. Real religion should be taken. It does not mean that because religion has not been properly executed by the so-called priests, religion should be rejected. If my eye is giving me some trouble on account of a cataract, it does not mean that the eye should be plucked out. The cataract should be removed. That is Krishna consciousness.
     
  6. Fairlight

    Fairlight Banned

    Messages:
    5,915
    Likes Received:
    302
    I have often felt the most pleasant times reading Prabhupada.His writing is so simple and joyous.I don't swallow the whole Krsna ethos without question,but concentrating on the pure lands can bring much solace.Be jolly!
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Messages:
    50,556
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    By definition? :p

    Anyway, if your quote about atheism is right it seems a lot of atheists don't get it ;)
     
  8. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,286
    Likes Received:
    643
    For a very serious exploration of this very subject by a PhD neuroscientist and philosopher who has spent thousands of hours in meditation and studied with several of the worlds top meditation experts, check this book out. He also has experience with psychedelics and speaks intelligently about basically everything he talks about.

    [​IMG]

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0B-cUSX57Q






    Religion is a social institution which is primarily a source of control. There is only a tenuous link between what we understand as "spirituality" and what is offered and professed within religions, which is often simply supernatural dogma.
     
  9. Joker8six

    Joker8six Members

    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    38
  10. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    22,574
    Likes Received:
    1,203
    In a general sense spirituality may refer to almost any meaningful or blissful experience, as in he was of high spirits.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Messages:
    50,556
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    Of course there is spirituality without religion! To OP I would ask: why not!?

    I think the dogma(s) are not really the spiritual part. Any person that doesn't believe in a religion's contents will have a hard time experiencing the spiritual aspects themselves. It doesn't mean there is little spirituality in the church, it means it is hard(er) to find or acknowledge for an areligious theist, atheist or an agnostic methinks. A big part of spirituality is the actual experience. So when one doesn't believe or experience the religion but just studies it, it seems easy and understandable but not neccessarily correct to come to your conclusion.
     
  12. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    22,574
    Likes Received:
    1,203
    A Religion is a system for cultivating experience. There are many such systems and many institutions established to propagate the systems. Just as sam says we need to make careful distinction between the genuine and the pseudo. Your definition of religion here gets a pseudo treatment when you say primarily instead of it is just and exactly so. In fact the whole statement is a mouthful of personal estimations. There is no single widely agreed concept of spirituality but wide agreement among many.

    Nothing changes about the actual transcendent experience in making this distinction, only the relatively bound position relaxes or tightens depending on your definitions . What is bound or released is the ability to clearly apprehend the world. An accurate description of the world is one that accounts for every perspective on an equal basis.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    Spirituality is something religions seek to monopolize, but certainly one can be spiritual without taking to any particular religion.

    Spirituality is not a question of obeying some rules of ancient date. The guys who shoot journalists etc are obeying 'god's laws' as they see them.

    It's more about freeing oneself on the level of consciousness. Developing your own inner life and hopefully coming to the stage where one doesn't require external rules and regulations to be a good person.
     
  14. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    22,574
    Likes Received:
    1,203
    We are spirited. What attempt need be made to be spiritual?
     
  15. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    19,783
    Likes Received:
    13,802
    I have never been comfortable with most "gurus" or those who claim to be in the know, especially those who start a "movement" or set themselves up as some sort of expert.

    I did have a brief correspondence with Mr. Rose (one of Joseph Chilton Pearce.'s influences) back in the early seventies as I knew several individuals who would visit him down on his W.Virginia ashram back in the daze. But I terminated it as I couldn't see why he set himself up as a guru. He eventually got into a battle with the Hare Krisnas over his property being taken over by them for their New Vrindaban community. There was a rumor that they had hired a hit man to take him out when he took them to court.

    I still have some of his letters around here somewhere.....

    That's how these things usually end. Better to take Lao Tzu's example and just ride off into the hills.....

    But what do I know???? lol​
     
  16. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    19,783
    Likes Received:
    13,802
    Indeed.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

    Messages:
    29,419
    Likes Received:
    6,296
    I agree, spirituality is direct experience and in a sense is ineffable, so while there may be particular techniques in helping one directly explore spirituality, and some common experiences worth sharing, any indirect rules to the experience or attempts to implement restrictions of thoughts based on supernatural events to correspond with the experience are a means of control, it's often what religions do.


    Let's liken this to spaghetti. (All praises to Flying Spaghetti Monster) Spirituality can be thought of as the direct experience of eating the spaghetti. An Organized religion can be thought of as a spaghetti recipe. You see you have the direct experience and then you have the recipe which may inform you about the experience. However the recipe is not the experience and many religions suggest they have the only recipe, but if you look at the numbers of religion (as well as the number of spaghetti recipes) you see that they only have a recipe.

    Now one would think that most open minded people may sample a few different types of spaghetti, may look into different recipes, perhaps even tweak the ingredients to their own personal liking before deciding on their favorite flavor.

    Being that we're social beings, we tend to like to share our important experiences and be in the company of like minded people. So many people like to go to a place of worship, where they will be accepted as family and I'm sure you know where I'm talking about, this is why many people go to the Olive Garden.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    Scandal, factionalism and general back-biting seems to be the order of the day as far as ISKCON is concerned.
     
  19. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    22,574
    Likes Received:
    1,203
    I think the real voice of human potential is our childlike aspirations. Human potential movements mature, and so develop the problems of adults so to speak.
     
  20. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    I like the spaghetti metaphor, but I'm actually not altogether convinced that most religions do have the recipe. Maybe some of them have a part of it.

    I think a big part of the trouble with religion is that often it isn't that people look at different things and decide what they like, but it's simply something that's put into them during imprint vulnerable stages of early life.

    It's fully understandable that people want to associate with others who have similar ideas or even beliefs. The problem there is that it can easily just turn into a talking shop. People get some reinforcement for their trip, but they don't really move closer to any actual spiritual experience.
    And the reinforcement can actually become in itself a barrier to any further progress.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice