Atheists Left Speechless On A Question On Evolution

Discussion in 'Agnosticism and Atheism' started by Dude111, Nov 12, 2014.

  1. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Using modern anthropological perspectve we can see that the figure jesus of nazerath was an in dividial involved in an ongoing hermeutic tradition extending from the greeks to the tao,buddist and vedic practices.
     
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  2. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    nothing so complex or convoluted as that.
    simply illustrating that once again someone, IMjustfishin in this case, is speaking from a lack of knowledge rather than an abundance of it, and feels that affords them the credentials to make final proclamations concerning it.
    LOL

    Imagine what the world could be if people actually bothered to learn a little about a topic before making declarative and final statements concerning it.
     
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  3. relaxxx

    relaxxx Senior Member

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    and Mormons, don't forget Mormons.

    http://youtu.be/HVuw1wEuaAQ
     
  4. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    institutions dont count. It is individuals that experince self no membership in a group transcends a personal difficulty.
     
  5. relaxxx

    relaxxx Senior Member

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    Yes, human ignorance and delusion is really many many many layers and groupings of multiple bubbles starting from each personal bubble...
     
  6. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    and wisdom comes from the same stock.
     
  7. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    Ha!

    edit: It seems there's another atheist left speechless :D
     
  8. relaxxx

    relaxxx Senior Member

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    ^double bubble.

    Nonsense, wisdom has nothing to do with delusional states. Wisdom transcends ignorance/delusion bubbles. People can be wise and rational despite of their ignorance bubbles.
     
  9. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    that is what I said. People can change their minds.
     
  10. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    so then by extension you are saying that your wife and child are ignorant and delusional, correct?
     
  11. IMjustfishin

    IMjustfishin Member

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    i do have a lack of knowledge, but this is the best way for me to learn, so excuse my ignorance. still, i dont think i made any mistakes, as im just pointing out what it says in the english bible which is the only one i have in my house and the only one i have read.

    good job on that post, those the kind of posts i like to read. i do appreciate that you took your valuable time to write such a great post, so i dont want to misquote you or misrepresent your ideas, so please correct me if i do.

    so yom refers to a finite period of time, which may or may not be 24 hours. im happy to accept that.

    i dont know hebrew and i can only go by translations that i find online so i found this website that looks pretty legit which has the hebrew translations of the old testemates:
    http://www.qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/genesis/1.html

    so according to that website the actual hebrew translation is: (copy and past is a little screwy due to special characters but u get the idea)
    1:5 And ´Élöhîm אֱלֹהִים 430 called 7121 z8799 the light 216 Day, 3117 and the darkness 2822 he called 7121 z8804 Night. 3915 And the evening 6153 and the morning 1242 were x1961 the first 259 day. 3117

    my point is, yom can mean a finite period of time, but the actual context is the evening and the morning were the first "yom". it seems to me, that in the hebrew version they are trying to get across that evening came and then morning came and that was a period of time. it seems like they are clearly describing one 24 hour day. if it were some other period of time, like many years, why would they use the phrase "and the evening and the morning"??




    ok second part i would like to discuss:

    ok this part really confuses me so please correct me if im wrong here, i dont want to misinterpret your idea.

    are you trying to say that some ancient literature uses a seven day week as a literary device or framework to describe something that did not occur in seven days? like if some catastrophic event, like a drought that lasts a long time, even though it lasted longer then seven days, they would describe it in seven days? or if one day a catastrophic fire or earthquake happens that lasts only one day, they would describe it in seven days? this seems so strange that i must not be understanding you right. dont get me wrong, that could be accurate, seeing as how they were just developing written language, but can lead to obvious misinterpretations and mistranslations.

    am i understanding that right?




    i think we should analyze the chronological order of astronomical events somewhere else so we don't get side tracked and focus on just the literary here.
     
  12. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    N.G.: "It is possible that the seven days in Genesis 1 are, at least in part, a literary device. Ancient Near Eastern literature, particularly from Mesopotamia and Canaan, provides numerous examples of the use of seven days as a literary framework to circumscribe the completion of a significant or catastrophic event."

    What is that ancient literature? I've heard that the Sumerians and the Babylonians (like the Hebrews) attached a lot of significance to the numbers 3 (signifying completeness) and 7 (signifying wholeness). Some historians think it goes back to Sargon I, king of Akkad, who instituted a seven-day week after his conquest of Ur and Sumeria--the first recorded use in 2350 B.C.E.. But the Economist thinks it goes back farther than that, to Ur and the Sumerians, who had seven gods and designated the days of the week accordingly. http://www.economist.com/node/895542

    Many scholars think that Genesis I was written by the P (Priestly) source during the Babylonian captivity, and that it's a response to, and rebuttal of, the Babylonian creation myth in which the world is created on the carcass of Tiamat (representing chaos) after Marduk slays her in a struggle. In Gen.1,, there is no birth of God from Taimat, there is no struggle. God brings creation about through words, .Tiammat is replaced by an impersonal Tehom (the deep). The different days of creation see new natural objects created which the Babylonians worshiped as Gods, but which Gen.1 depicts as inanimate creations of Yahweh: vegetation, celestial bodies, animals, etc. And on the sixth day, god crated humans, in His own image and likeness, not as slaves to the gods, as the Babylonians thought.
     
  13. IMjustfishin

    IMjustfishin Member

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    we'll have to wait for gassy to come back for a fair answer.
     
  14. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    While we're waiting for gassy, another thought. The Sumerian seven-day week may have been a result of a desire on the part of priest-astronomers to find a period greater than a day and less than a month. A seven day week provided the closest to an approximately equal division of the month into four units. For other possibilities, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_%28number%29 . The wiki editors acknowledge that it needs work.
     
  15. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    Psst! ;)
     
  16. relaxxx

    relaxxx Senior Member

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    Everyone is ignorant and delusional. Some have more numerous and thicker bubbles than others. Some are wise enough to be aware of their own ignorance's. Others think they are wise when they are really just blithering idiots.
     
  17. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    everyone may be full of questions and some may be full of of unrecognized assumptions but none are ignorant save they choose to ignore.
     
  18. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    the seven day period is based on the lunar cycle of four stages of seven days equaling apoximately 28 days, the 365 day period is based on the sun cycle, moving through 4 seasons ad twelve months. 27.5 days is given as the orbital period of the moon and 29.531 days is the synodic cycle of the moon, This represents slack tide between changes in the cycle with epihion being in the middle of those two values.
     
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  19. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    So the lunar cycle is the mothers cycle and it is this cycle that gives us the advantage of being able to breed in any season as most others animals are solar oriented migrating to areas of highest sunlight concentrations or waiting for the light season to arive which is why you see spring time birth in many classes animals..
     
  20. AceK

    AceK Scientia Potentia Est

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    in Genesis it states that the earth was created before there was light, which would seem to mean that the sun was created after the earth. Genesis says also that lights were created in the sky on the third day (the stars).

    this seems to imply that the sun is not the source of light.
     

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