In the resent discussions over Ferguson I came upon the idea put forward by Michelle Alexander that incarceration in the US (the largest in the world) with it huge numbers of black and Latino populations was being used as a form of social repression of those groups especially the black population. I was wondering what people here thought? * Reviewer of The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness Thirty years ago, fewer than 350,000 people were held in prisons and jails in the United States. Today, the number of inmates in the United States exceeds 2,000,000. In this book, Alexander argues that this system of mass incarceration "operates as a tightly networked system of laws, policies, customs, and institutions that operate collectively to ensure the subordinate status of a group defined largely by race." The War on Drugs, the book contends, has created "a lower caste of individuals who are permanently barred by law and custom from mainstream society." Mass incarceration, and the disabilities that come with the label "felon," serve, metaphorically, as the new Jim Crow.
The thing so often ignored in this is the fact that the very laws being griped about here are disenfranchising just as many white people. So why are they less important? This isn't Jim Crow in any way, it's far worse. So deflecting the issue with race baiting is useless. A felony ruins any color's life.
It's absolutely not true George. Statistics don't race-bait https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top-10-most-startling-facts-about-people-of-color-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/ "A report by the Department of Justice found that blacks and Hispanics were approximately three times more likely to be searched during a traffic stop than white motorists. African Americans were twice as likely to be arrested and almost four times as likely to experience the use of force during encounters with the police. According to the Human Rights Watch, people of color are no more likely to use or sell illegal drugs than whites, but they have higher rate of arrests. African Americans comprise 14 percent of regular drug users but are 37 percent of those arrested for drug offenses. From 1980 to 2007 about one in three of the 25.4 million adults arrested for drugs was African American. The U.S. Sentencing Commission stated that in the federal system black offenders receive sentences that are 10 percent longer than white offenders for the same crimes. The Sentencing Project reports that African Americans are 21 percent more likely to receive mandatory-minimum sentences than white defendants and are 20 percent more like to be sentenced to prison."
Right, I'm looking at whole numbers of Americans. Felony statutes affect us all the same. No guns, voting rights in only a few states, discrimination in future court cases, adoption doors closed, even dating sites do their best to ensure former felons are punished for a lifetime. But again, the system is rigged, but not by race. Simply by class. Most of the felony statutes were designed to keep white men under control. That's how old this shit is. So if you plan to counter me with hyperbole from today's news, you're wasting your time. Most of the former felons I know are white, and nobody is rolling out a red carpet for them. See, whites don't reward, coddle or place their criminals on pedestals. MOST white Americans are disgusted by criminals of ANY color. Then there's that whole disproportionate number of cases where people resist arrest. Here's a hint, when they say "You're under arrest", don't assume you can fight your way out of it. Consider also that most of the poor in the US are white. So why is their crime rate NOT through the roof? Uncomfortable questions need to be asked. Honesty is the only cure for the cancer in this nation. MOST of our problems are being delivered by all those assholes in Washington, NOT the general population of Americans (regardless of color). Sorry if I seem to rant, but I really get tired of the way race is so casually tossed around these days. In too many cases I see it misapplied entirely. Crying wolf instead of facing the real problem.
I think all homo sapiens on planet earth were in Africa 100,000 years ago. I think 100,000 years ago a chunk of the African population migrated north into Eurasia. I think it was new terrain that required ingenuity as opposed to physical prowess for hunting and gathering on open plains. Over time, the more resourceful, smarter people tended to survive while the physically strong often died off if they weren't intelligent enough to adapt. 40,000 years ago this new, distinct Eurasian group separated, with Asians venturing East and Europeans to the Northwest. Those smart enough to survive in a cold, harsh climate flourished and procreated. Around 12,000 to 10,000 years ago our last glacial period encroached from the north, and created an even harsher evolutionary bottleneck, where large groups of people who weren't quite resourceful enough parished. Over many thousands of years and hundreds of generations the wheat was sorted from the chaff, the cream rose to the top and extraordinarily peaceful, intelligent, prosperous societies emerged. This group to the north had sacrificed testosterone for larger brains via external environmental pressure, and when nearly all the dim brutes were out of the picture, what was left was a collection of pale skinned, big brained people who built societies, and produced the greatest scientists and thinkers in recorded history. We can thank this migration for the likes of Aristotle, Pythagoras, Galileo, Da Vinci, Newton, Tesla, and Einstein, and all the inventions and technology that stemmed from their big brains and highly developed frontal lobes. Those who stayed in a warmer climate, on the plains, continued to hunt and gather very successfully. Natural selection worked to choose the fastest, best hunters. We can thank those who stayed for the likes of Usain Bolt, Lebron James, and all the great Kenyan distance runners who win in such dominating fashion. There is a sinister strain of banking Oligarchs that dominate US policy today. They may very well play some small part in the incarceration of poor people, the only example I can think of is the war on drugs which is atrocious. It's still a fact that if you're smart enough to stay away from drugs, or determined enough to stay away from drugs, there is no way you will be locked up. Now as for offenses not related to drugs, let's take a look at the rest of the world and see how different countries compare to America. Western values are so oppressive. Hitting Kids http://cdn-images.9cloud.us/71/piccit_corporal_punishment___world__343472640.gif Current Slavery Rates http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/10/17/this-map-shows-where-the-worlds-30-million-slaves-live-there-are-60000-in-the-u-s/ Birthrate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_birth_rate#mediaviewer/File:Birth_rate_figures_for_countries.PNG Maybe partially due to all the raping going on there https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/07/11/statistics-muslim-countries-obsessed-with-womens-honour-have-one-of-the-highest-rape-scales-in-the-world/ LGBT rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#mediaviewer/File:LGBT_rights_at_the_UN.svg IQ http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IQ_by_Country.png White guilt for life. White guilt forever!
Sure thats why the vikings pillaged and plundered... their giant sophisticated white-boy brains. (rolls eyes)
What an amazingly anecdotal response! You can cherry pick exceptions that prove the rule and convince yourself it's an argument! Is it clear that people of Eurasian descent are ahead of the curve on gender rights, LGBT rights, corporal punishment, religious dogma, slavery, and IQ or can you deny any of that? Do you put any stock into statistical analysis or do you require personal experience with facts in order for them to matter?
I'm always dissapointed by the lack of commitment to logical analysis and debate. Play the ball, not the man. Try committing to reason and evidence. You'll find yourself immune to hurt feelings and taking offense. You can discuss anything and have all sorts of conversations that you were scared of before. It's very freeing. The reality is, currently you're scared to make certain obvious admissions. Ignoring facts will not put you on the path to enlightenment. Commitment to rational debate is panacea. Here's a list of logical fallacies that everyone should know. You pulled a Texas Sharpshooter with your Viking example, and calling me meathead was Ad Hominem. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/assets/FallaciesPosterHigherRes.jpg
We're being turned into an imprisoned nation, where everything is criminal and arrest-able and has a mandatory minimum. That is a giant problem and needs to be addressed beyond the racial injustice, or they'll simply throw everybody else in there too. But that doesn't mean that it's not wildly racially disproportionate and unjust, as well, or that it doesn't need to be addressed.
I thought richard had lost interest and left.... Please, please don't argue with him - you won't get anywhere, because his points don't depend on logic or fact. He will make any statement he wants, and as far as he's concerned, it's right even as you debunk it, and when you move on to the next, it remains right. It's like individual, but motivated by mental illness, instead of being a paid propagandist. He has a hard time working in a thread that he didn't define, generally if you just don't go into his threads you never see him. When you argue with people like that, you inherently lose, because they're not listening to or recognizing your arguments, to them it's just a cue to remind them to repeat all the stuff you just defeated, and the cycle repeats.
God I wish I could quote messages. YES, there is a disproportionate aspect to black Americans and the justice system. They are the canary in the coal mine for the whole of the American population. We're ALL screwed. Which is why I am so offended at all the racist attacks from BOTH sides in the US these days. Sucker punching elderly people for just being white? Hideous. I can't respect that in any direction.
