Good And Bad?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by humanbeaing, Aug 8, 2014.

  1. humanbeaing

    humanbeaing see you in paradise! HipForums Supporter

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    But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden .You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die. At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die. For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”



    Satan lied by saying Eve would not die.

    And this is where the concept of sin came into play in the human existence
     
  2. tikoo

    tikoo Senior Member

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    Mother has died , and in goodness had been beautiful and intelligent . Her last thoughts were insight
    into healing . We are now making and using a medicine made from hemp . It helps the body speak
    to itself . One life has already been saved . Be like God and don't be stupid !
     
  3. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

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    God never said they couldn't touch it. That was Eve's lie.
     
  4. IMjustfishin

    IMjustfishin Member

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    that story brings up alot of questions:

    why would god put that tree in the middle of the garden if he didnt want adam and eve to eat from it?

    if he is omniscient he should've known they would eat from it right?

    did he also put that talking snake in the garden? if so why?

    why would god not want his creations to know good and bad?

    if at first they did not have a concept of good and bad, how where they supposed to know that not following gods order was bad??????

    what is the logic behind punishing the rest of human kind for this?

    why would god give adam and eve free will, but at the same time no concept of good and bad ( this means adam and eve literally had no clue of what they were doing so they are kind of innocent right?)??

    if satan, or the talking snake, was bad, why would he let it in the garden, why not just stop satan long before?

    did god get angry? why would he feel this emotion if he knows everything that did and will happen?

    did the snake or satan already have the knowledge of good and evil?

    if satan was the one who deceived eve, wouldnt that be the "origional sin"?

    is that fruit from the tree magic? is the talking snake magic? if so when did all this magic phenomenon start/end?

    the way everyhting played out had to be gods plan right? if not then he is not omniscient, right?

    should this story be taken as allagory or literally by christians? if it is an alagory, shouldnt the rest of genesis also be an allagory? who chooses which parts of the bible are allagory or litteral then?

    i invite everyone to add more questions or try to answer these, if you do try to answer them please tell us how you arrived at your conclusions.
     
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  5. Still Kicking

    Still Kicking Members

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    Actually, I always saw it as the other way around, where the supposed god claims that Eve would die, and she did not. At least not right away, as one would expect from the way it is written. I think it shows that the original sin was the supposed god lying to Eve and Adam about the tree.
     
  6. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    I think you may have beaten the dead horse to a pulp, but I have some questions re Pandora. Why did Zeus give her that name? If Zeus created her to give her to Epimetheus because he was still pissed at Prometheus, Epithemeus's brother, for giving fire to humanity, wasn't that kinda psycho? Why, then, did the ancients worship him as a god, espcecially since he didn't seem to be able to keep his tunic zipped? And wasn't that a rather convoluted way to get at Epimetheus when he could have simply zapped him with a lightning bolt? And why did Zeus give them a jar (aka, box) of troubles as a wedding gift with a sign on it Do NOt Open! when he could have just inflicted the troubles on us directly without wasting a good jar (box, whatever)? When Pandora let her curiostiy get the better of her and opened the jar (aka, box), was she really responsible for her actions, or was Zeus to blame, or both? And how did Hope get into the jar (box)? Did Zeus know about it? If so, why didn't he remove Hope, or dowse it with some bug spray? Was he working at cross purposes with himself? If so, what kind of sorry ass, confused deity was he? More to the point, why didn't the ancient Greeks ask these questions? If they did, would it have destroyed their faith in Zeus? Or did they realize it was only a myth, and that getting too analyitical about it would be silly and miss the point?
     
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  7. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    As a folow up, consider what one of the earliest Christian theologians, Origen, had to say in the third century about Genesis :

    "For who that has understanding will suppose that the first, and second, and third day, and the evening and the morning, existed without a sun, and moon, and stars? And that the first day was, as it were, also without a sky? And who is so foolish as to suppose that God, after the manner of a husbandman, planted a paradise in Eden, towards the east, and placed in it a tree of life, visible and palpable, so that one tasting of the fruit by the bodily teeth obtained life? And again, that one was a partaker of good and evil by masticating what was taken from the tree? And if God is said to walk in the paradise in the evening, and Adam to hide himself under a tree, I do not suppose that anyone doubts that these things figuratively indicate certain mysteries, the history having taken place in appearance, and not literally."
     
  8. storch

    storch banned

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    It is obvious that there were no proofreaders back then to insure proper continuity in the interest of story plausibility.
     
  9. humanbeaing

    humanbeaing see you in paradise! HipForums Supporter

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    I can answer all of those questions, too busy right now so I will be back
     
  10. storch

    storch banned

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    Alright! [​IMG]
     
  11. humanbeaing

    humanbeaing see you in paradise! HipForums Supporter

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    1. A test of obedience
    2. God chooses foreknowledge selectively and does not need or want to know everything in advance thus inhibiting free will
    3. He did not put the snake in the garden, a powerful angel chose to speak thru the snake, like a ventriliquest, thus turning himself into an opposer of God, making him satan.
    4. Cause he created humans out of the dirt and bad was not a makeup of their personality or instinct that was given in their creation.
    5. Because they were given a direct order with a consequence, and just as god said, they died as a result of their disobedience.
    6. Because rulers hip under satan must be played out to show who's rule is right. It involves all humans. Just as satan charged to god in the matter do the man Job. That humans only serve god for what they will get in return, not out of love.
    7. Not innocent and culpable for their mistake. They knew what they were doing and still did it.
    8. Angels have free will also, but just like us, make a choice
    9. God don't get angry. It's called riteous indignation
    10. Yes. He declared to Eve, "you will be like us knowing good and bad"
     
  12. storch

    storch banned

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    OK, IMjustfishin, ball's in your court.
     
  13. storch

    storch banned

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    A test of obedience is called entrapment. Why would God do that? To find out what he did not know?

    And what is the penalty for causing God to experience righteous indignation?
     
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  14. humanbeaing

    humanbeaing see you in paradise! HipForums Supporter

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    One prohibitive command was given to Adam, that forbidding eating of (or even touching) the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. God’s test of man’s obedience and devotion is notable for the respect it showed for man’s dignity. By it God attributed nothing bad to Adam ,he did not use as a test the prohibition of, for example, bestiality, murder, or some similar vile or base act, thereby implying that God felt Adam might have some despicable inclinations residing within him. Eating was normal, proper, and Adam had been told to “eat to satisfaction” of what God had given him. But God now tested Adam by restricting his eating of the fruit of this one tree, God thus causing the eating of that fruit to symbolize that the eater comes to a knowledge that enables him to decide for himself what is “good” or what is “bad” for man. Thus, God neither imposed a hardship on the man nor did He attribute to Adam anything beneath his dignity as a human son of God.
     
  15. storch

    storch banned

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    OK, so we've established the fact that God had no idea what his creation would do in a given situation. Now, what is the penalty for causing God to experience righteous indignation?
     
  16. humanbeaing

    humanbeaing see you in paradise! HipForums Supporter

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    Go back to my original post and you will see the penalty for disobeying God
     
  17. storch

    storch banned

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    So, the penalty for affecting God's mood is that we die. Yes, we all die . . .
     
  18. humanbeaing

    humanbeaing see you in paradise! HipForums Supporter

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    Your the one putting the word "mood" in there..the penalty for sin is death and yes, we all do die, which is inherited
     
  19. storch

    storch banned

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    If, as you say, God experienced righteous indignation in response to the behavior of his own creation, then yes indeed God's mood was affected by the choices made by his own creation. Righteous indignation is another way of saying "justified anger." Did you know that?

    Now, if, as you say, we all die, then what's the difference between the experience of one who dies after causing God to experience what you call righteous indignation, and one who dies after obeying God?
     
  20. Anaximenes

    Anaximenes Senior Member

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    This is all for Adam the feeling in the presence of the time-bound self in the World. So thus he is accustomed to the short-cut towards the spirit-world (like a volcano making sense in the background of a much more alien seismometer). The body-world instead is the time honoured existence of seismometer measures from all over the Earth. Was for the values of science, the fruit. the body world seismic observancy, or the Spirit-world performing it's eruption thing in this location of the world?

    Had to be an Apple to make no confusion of the worldly earth from the quantitative planet in the universe. :sunny:
     

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