The 4 Hour Work Day

Discussion in 'The Future' started by PacifistEgalitarian, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    its not a matter of getting rid of, or choosing to do so, but rather that time moves on, and there is nothing so intrinsic about the concept as people have been convinced to imagine. just because its a box most people don't think beyond, well there have been many other such boxes in the past, and they too have come and gone.

    some fads last a few months, some last for millinia, but they still eventually pass on.
     
  2. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    You may well be right. Things could change beyond what we can imagine.

    Obviously money is not anything intrinsic to humans, it's part of a cultural construction. I wouldn't argue against that. It's intrinsic though to most of our modern institutions.

    I think money itself will be around for sometime to come. The transition to a post money world would have to come in stages.
     
  3. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    oh absolutely. my point is there's nothing so intrinsic about those institutions either. you know we may be witnessing the beginning of many of them breaking down. some have served us reasonably well. some have served only to wrap us in illusions. those illusions, many of them, have already begun to fray around the edges, and are unlikely to survive the environmental changes we have inflicted upon ourselves and continue to do so.

    marxists used to say they would bury capitalism. well it isn't that. its that all ideology is digging its own hole that is burying itself.

    i belive the more fanatical people get about trying to prevent this, the faster they are forcing it to happen.

    how many of these institutions would survive something like an 80 or more per cent reduction in human population of a period of little more then a single decade? not many i would rather suspect, when nearly everyone is dying, not of some war or even the affects of war, but from famine and disease, resulting from what we are doing now, with our dependence on carbon, to, ultimately, nature's ability to sustain our own species.

    this is not some way out there speculation, but a real possibility, even probability, not in some far off century, but quite possibly in a very few years.

    many factors too, can blind side us with more raped then expected changes of many kinds. certainly almost no one, for the first 30 years of my life, would have believed what we have seen and are seeing, these past 35 or so years since.

    only future events will probe me right or wrong, but i also suspect, those who believe arming themselves and the use of force can be any answer to this, will be among the first to remove themselves from the stage, by killing each other off. not always intentionally. but in accidents that happen for example, when local armed militants, fight over control munitions manufacturing facilities.

    no gun can prevent the accelerated mutation of diseases either. so for all their bravado, they'll still be dying of them along with everyone else, even if they do settle this way who gets to loot that last can of peaches off nearly empty convenience store shelves.

    not that it has to get that bad. but preventing it from getting that bad or worse, really depends on weaning infrastructure off of carbon and other non-renewables dependence.
     
  4. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    themnax -

    It seems inevitable to me that most of our current institutions and in fact ideas are not going to be of much use in the future.
    You say you began to see this coming around 35 years ago, I began to worry about the things we're doing to the earth around the age of 18 or so, back in the 70's.

    Since then it seems just so many negative things have been building up that something is definitely going to go, or more likely, many things at once will hit us during the 21st century.
    I don't want to list all the problems, and I agree with a lot of what you say in your post, but just a few-
    Climate change
    The death of the Oceans
    Massive human overpopulation
    Economic breakdown
    Diseases which are completely resistant to anti-biotics
    More conflict over dwindling resources.

    So far our institutions have been pretty useless at doing anything real to deal with these problems.

    I think that if there's to be a human future nearly everything will have to change. None of the existing political ideologies offer any solutions. Just more crumbs of ideology for people to cling to as the ship goes down.
     
  5. IamnotaMan

    IamnotaMan I am Thor. On sabba-tickle. Still available via us

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    Oops. I was referring to the 4 hour work WEEK, a book by Tim Ferriss.
    Tim's book is actually pretty clever.

    This thread refers to 4 hr work day. A completely different thing. And I'm amazed the writer was allowed to pass-off the title.

    I've only skimmed thro it for a few seconds but 4hr work day looks a complete load of ridiculous bollocks. Devised by some looney tunes in fantasy land. Just as dangerous as the Bernie Madoffs, the Enrons, the George Bush's and all that scum from the other side
     
  6. PacifistEgalitarian

    PacifistEgalitarian Member

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    Suppose we made every other Friday a 4-hour day? Or, even better, a 36-hour week divided into four 9-hour days? With wages adjusted to make up the difference. We already have 9/80 schedules which are popular with many workers.
     
  7. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    if all of the work that really needed to be done, were to be equitably destributed among everyone willing and able to do it, four hours a day, four days out of every six, with a three day weekend every third weekend of a 19 day month, would be enterely sufficient to get it done.

    all of the monetary excuses for not doing things this way, are just that, excuses made by and for, ideological fanatacism.

    this isn't exactly new. nor is the opposition to it.

    environment and context are changing, and that also is a reality.
     
  8. Just_a_woman

    Just_a_woman Member

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    Efficient professionals don't need to work too many hours to make a difference.
     
  9. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    no one would need to work too many hours to get done everything that needs to be.

    the concept of a "work week" at all, is only inherent to a culture that creates make-work.
    that motivates feelings of guilt for not LOOKING busy.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. SouthPaw

    SouthPaw Members

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    If you want to get paid more, you work more.

    Ambition and self-determination work for me. Unlimited overtime since 1998 (not kidding and no, I'm not union. I used to be but they were limiting my income). I've been fortunate.

    I averaged 70-80 hours/week for almost 10 years, now I'm satisfied with 40-50.

    I determine my own income and standard of living. If you want to work 4 hours/day go for it. I have no problem with employers allowing you to choose.
     
  11. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    i don't want to get paid more. i want to live in a world where i need money less. preferably not at all.

    people are working more AND getting paid less.

    ambition and self determination equal bending over and spreading the cheeks of your ass.

    the point is a given that comforts do not create themselves.

    but it also misses the point, of the kind of neo-feudalistic world, today's ignorance and superstition are creating.

    a standard is something you create for nuts and bolts, when mass producing them, to make them useful.

    there is no such thing as a standard, for creative self awareness.
     

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