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The 4 Hour Work Day




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#1 PacifistEgalitarian

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Posted April 17 2014 - 10:33 AM

With advances in automation and the possible issue of technological unemployment, we might need to consider a future reduction in the work day for different types of jobs.

http://www.4hourworkday.org/benefits
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#2 Iron John

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Posted April 17 2014 - 10:35 AM

Sure.Pay decent wages and job share.Would decrease unemployment and give people more time off to enjoy life.

#3 IRQ42

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Posted April 17 2014 - 10:38 AM

Try out the 28 hour workday...it's not really "work" tho if it's something you enjoy doing.

Sometimes there's no work too cuz u gotta wait on paperwork and shit.

I agree the unemployment rate is outrageous and that only count people actively seeking employment....not all those welfare fucks that buy cartons of cigarettes and sell loonies on the street. That's kid shit

15% unemployment my zip code

http://www.city-data.com

I can look at all the census data down to the block or two radius

You can look up any zip code, state city w/e

Some of the info is very tentative tho cuz a lot is estimates on 2011 data. Just like my gas bill is estimated...
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#4 Sallysmart

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Posted April 17 2014 - 11:50 AM

If I was working for someone else I would like to work 4 hours a day. Was never an option at places I worked. For myself tho it's kinda hard to think that way but I do have others doing the work sometimes and I still feel like I am working all day. Kinda hard to look away from your own business that way. Mind you in time I might just farm it all out and just do the paper work.

Just call me Sally, I am not that smart, ;)


#5 IRQ42

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Posted April 17 2014 - 12:15 PM

^pharming will get you a federal case.

Sometimes u work 4 hours get sent home too
"Real programmers use a magnetized needle and a steady hand"

In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion ...

If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
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#6 Asmo

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Posted April 17 2014 - 01:10 PM

If all progresses well money becomes obsolete and so will workdays with a mandatory amount of hours :2thumbsup:

And when we all can work where we fit, are needed and/or would like to it will be something we don't mind doing (in most cases of course :D)!

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#7 scratcho

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Posted April 17 2014 - 01:44 PM

Automation doesn't allow people to work less. It requires that that those replaced by automation to please leave the premises. You no longer have a job. Or you won't get hired in the first place because machines are holding the jobs that people used to do.

#8 Asmo

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Posted April 17 2014 - 01:54 PM

Fuck the economy! You shouldn't want to be hired to save something that doesn't serve you. Just work for yourself :2thumbsup:

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#9 RandomVegan

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Posted April 17 2014 - 02:02 PM

I seriously doubt those running things are going to stand for it - they would rather just dump people homeless and let them starve - right now for the average job in this country you have to work yourself to death just to go deeper in debt

#10 PacifistEgalitarian

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Posted April 17 2014 - 05:57 PM

If all progresses well money becomes obsolete and so will workdays with a mandatory amount of hours :2thumbsup:

And when we all can work where we fit, are needed and/or would like to it will be something we don't mind doing (in most cases of course :D)!


You mean like this: http://www.hipforums...?t=485982&f=293

#11 Asmo

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Posted April 18 2014 - 04:58 AM

Kinda like that, yes! :)

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#12 bird_migration

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Posted April 18 2014 - 05:51 AM

With advances in automation and the possible issue of technological unemployment, we might need to consider a future reduction in the work day for different types of jobs.

http://www.4hourworkday.org/benefits


I believe eventually we will be freed from the slavery and forced labour that very much exists today.

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#13 Asmo

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Posted April 18 2014 - 06:11 AM

What! Do we agree about something, you old nihilist!? How is that possible, the future must be glorious for sure now :daisy:

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#14 bird_migration

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Posted April 18 2014 - 06:13 AM

What! Do we agree about something, you old nihilist!? How is that possible, the future must be glorious for sure now :daisy:


Haha I don't consider myself to be a nihilist, but it is certainly a joy to agree with someone who is reasonable and has common sense. :2thumbsup:

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#15 IRQ42

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Posted April 18 2014 - 06:18 AM

You can make money doing almost anything. It doesn't have to be even what you would usually call "a job" but it has to suit you, and you should like it else why are you doing in the first place?
"Real programmers use a magnetized needle and a steady hand"

In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion ...

If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
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https://github.com/IRQ42/
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#16 bird_migration

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Posted April 18 2014 - 06:20 AM

You can make money doing almost anything. It doesn't have to be even what you would usually call "a job" but it has to suit you, and you should like it else why are you doing in the first place?


I suppose most people do it because they have bills to pay and they are caught in the web of consumerism.

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#17 Asmo

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Posted April 18 2014 - 06:46 AM

Yeah people simply have to make a living, I understand. But a lot seem to buy into the stereotype too, that if you don't have a kind of job that is socially accepted (like something as irrelevant as a 7 or 8 hour workday) you're a loser or leecher.

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#18 Sallysmart

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Posted April 18 2014 - 07:44 AM

You can make money doing almost anything. It doesn't have to be even what you would usually call "a job" but it has to suit you, and you should like it else why are you doing in the first place?


Right, problem is some must work a while at what they might not like but should use that time to think about what they would like and this might include educating while working that crappy job,,, or simply looking at what feels right and keeping the eyes open for the opportunity to jump ship on the crappy job and get into what is right for them.
Every job I had I did enjoy but would never want to stay there as a lifer. I either took up a higher position, dumped the job eventually or moved just to move not knowing what was ahead in the new place and started on a crappy job for a short while till I found the one I wanted. Now, I did what you said above, found my way to make money at home how I like and no micro chip or machine should be able to take it away.
More jobs are happening this way as they needed to and some people are glad for the major losses of job to kick them in the pants to make those jobs themselves, some are still hoping for something to come their way.
I know lots of people who say they hate their work but they are a lifer anyway because it pays well. Never have I stayed long at one job, even if I liked it lots. I get bored and gotta move on. Now I can't get bored, this is my baby and I have to keep it going for me.

Just call me Sally, I am not that smart, ;)


#19 themnax

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Posted May 11 2014 - 11:03 PM

if all the work that actually needed to be done, were evenly distributed among everyone willing and able to do it, four hours a day, four days out of the three six day weeks every solar 'month' would be entirely sufficient.

in a rational world, and we HAVE the technology to build such a rational world now, the reasons we haven't have nothing to do with technological capability, the average person working 16 hours a week, and that only because they felt like it, but were responsible enough to honor their commitments, would then be able to spend an equal or greater amount of time keeping current on developments in their field, broadening their horizons to encompass other fields, and doing the kind of creative 'work' we, as humans, have always been meant to do.

nor would those who found free public food and shelter adiquite to their wishes be any great or even noticeable burden.

the great myth of need for people to slave long and many hours, is only to fill the pockets of short sighted greed.

this is not even a new proposition nor capacity. it has been perfectly possibly since the mid 1960s, if not even from the very earliest beginnings of social organization. but the technological capability to enjoy familiar levels of infrastructure and gratifying existence, yes, we've had that since the mid 60s at least.

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#20 Irminsul

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Posted May 11 2014 - 11:31 PM

What happens to you wage in all this. Does the pay double to compensate less work time? Or does it stay the same. Cause if it stays the same who gives a flying fuck whether you work 2 or 4 hrs, motherfuckers gone need work 8 still.
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#21 RandomVegan

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Posted May 12 2014 - 08:33 PM

I suppose most people do it because they have bills to pay and they are caught in the web of consumerism.



many do it merely because otherwise they would die, starvation/exposure or some such - both stealing food even if dying AND not having a home are a prosecutable offense in most jurisdictions


#22 Sallysmart

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Posted May 12 2014 - 10:03 PM

What happens to you wage in all this. Does the pay double to compensate less work time? Or does it stay the same. Cause if it stays the same who gives a flying fuck whether you work 2 or 4 hrs, motherfuckers gone need work 8 still.


I think it will be half what you made in eight hours but those with need and ambition will hold two 4 hour jobs at two different places as many already do. There are places like restaurants hiring a few hours a day to keep peeps off work benefits (gotta be under 40 hrs a week I believe) and many hold two or three jobs in a day to make full wages.
It's not really new, just being more widely used in more and more work places to cut benefits off from the working class.

Just call me Sally, I am not that smart, ;)


#23 themnax

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Posted May 16 2014 - 03:12 PM

What happens to you wage in all this. Does the pay double to compensate less work time? Or does it stay the same. Cause if it stays the same who gives a flying fuck whether you work 2 or 4 hrs, motherfuckers gone need work 8 still.


not if it doesn't cost you anything to live, travel or make things.

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#24 RandomVegan

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Posted May 17 2014 - 04:34 AM

not if it doesn't cost you anything to live, travel or make things.



nice fantasy but I don't know of a place where you can accomplish this - any roof over your head they are going to charge you for (and they execute people who just go out some place and live) , travel can get you arrested and turned into a slave should you not have a vehicle or some such , making things requires a minimum of resources which are all pretty much owned by some entity so you need to purchase either the resources or the land itself to mine for yourself


#25 themnax

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Posted May 18 2014 - 07:42 AM


nice fantasy but I don't know of a place where you can accomplish this - any roof over your head they are going to charge you for (and they execute people who just go out some place and live) , travel can get you arrested and turned into a slave should you not have a vehicle or some such , making things requires a minimum of resources which are all pretty much owned by some entity so you need to purchase either the resources or the land itself to mine for yourself


the equating of symbolic value with real value is a fantasy also. it just happens to be the one the part of the world we live in runs on at the moment.

two things that aren't a fantasy are the natural environment, and constructed technology. pretty much everything else is in our heads. or someone's.

my nation is the imagination

this is the dawning of the age of zootopia

and thank god i'm not quite human

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#26 RandomVegan

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Posted May 18 2014 - 05:15 PM

the equating of symbolic value with real value is a fantasy also. it just happens to be the one the part of the world we live in runs on at the moment.

two things that aren't a fantasy are the natural environment, and constructed technology. pretty much everything else is in our heads. or someone's.



and this helps me how? still in a world that runs on that fantasy, I walk out someplace and try to live by my own hand some government thugs are going to gang up and shoot me


#27 themnax

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Posted May 21 2014 - 09:49 PM


and this helps me how? still in a world that runs on that fantasy, I walk out someplace and try to live by my own hand some government thugs are going to gang up and shoot me


this condition prevails primarily as a result of all of us statistically contributing to the incentives for it to so so. it is in very real fact, quite possible for organized societies to exist, with all the benefits of infrastructure and technology, without having to make everything, including the construction of one's own shelter, begin and end with symbolic value. indigenous cultures have done this quite nicely for thousands of years, before symbolic value or even force of arms was ever invented.

one suspects a deliberate degree of obtuseness. or possibly an innocent lack of having noticed the existence of a universe beyond the invisible box of human society.

my nation is the imagination

this is the dawning of the age of zootopia

and thank god i'm not quite human

=^^=
.../\...


#28 RandomVegan

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Posted May 22 2014 - 12:23 PM

this condition prevails primarily as a result of all of us statistically contributing to the incentives for it to so so. it is in very real fact, quite possible for organized societies to exist, with all the benefits of infrastructure and technology, without having to make everything, including the construction of one's own shelter, begin and end with symbolic value. indigenous cultures have done this quite nicely for thousands of years, before symbolic value or even force of arms was ever invented.

one suspects a deliberate degree of obtuseness. or possibly an innocent lack of having noticed the existence of a universe beyond the invisible box of human society.



obtuseness? pot meet kettle! the fact that capitalism does not exist on the moon does not help since I cannot survive there


#29 Sallysmart

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Posted May 22 2014 - 12:59 PM

Someone mentioned on another thread that some places like Croatia don't use currency, it made me wonder, how do they sell and buy stuff? Do they all put into the work force at a same rate of pay in living expenses or how does it work? Does a person only need to work so many hours and maybe there are tickets or cards offered for living expenses?
Never heard of a no currency situation but maybe that works. Can a person work as much as they want? Does the government supplement if you are working?
Here it was impossible only a few years ago to work and get on the shift for only a few hours a day but some people wished for that, now people are afraid of that because it's kind of going that way and many want or need the full shift of 8 hours. For moms it might be a good thing but to manage a mortgage it would hurt a lot of people, those who already bought at an 8 hour income and have to go down to 4 and even those who want a mortgage or need to rent and need 8 hours to cover the cost.

Just call me Sally, I am not that smart, ;)


#30 BeachBall

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Posted May 26 2014 - 05:11 AM

Someone mentioned on another thread that some places like Croatia don't use currency, it made me wonder, how do they sell and buy stuff? ... Never heard of a no currency situation but maybe that works.


Course you have, if you think about it?

What currency did the native Americans have, before the white men came along with their trade goods??

What currency did they have in Iron Age Britain, before the Romans came along with their legions and their coins?

There's just two examples ... but primitive cultures the world over have existed quite happily without the need for any sort of currency. You got an orchard and I raise sheep. You want some lamb chops, and we agree 7 apples per chop. You want 6 chops so you give me 42 apples. What's the problem?
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I don't give a damn whether or not people agree with my chosen lifestyle, because I don't recall asking for their permission

this really requires a more in-depth answer than i'm willing to type right now.





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