Post news reports that show wisdom of citizens carrying guns

A lot of people who want a more peaceful world oppose laws that allow citizens to carry guns in public places.

The Second Amendment folks insist that there is more law and order when citizens carry guns. They say that in cases where bad guys are killing or threatening to kill innocent people, it would be better if some good person would use their gun to stop it. They would allow people to bring guns into churches, bars, schools, etc.

I'm in Boston where very few people have guns. Also, I almost never see a story that demonstrates the wisdom of citizens carrying guns. When I've brought this up, sometimes I'm told it's just the liberal media bias; that this does happen but I just don't hear about it.

OK. This is an open forum. I want to read stories about armed citizens stopping crime. There must be very many of these. Convince me of the wisdom of these laws.

The rules are

• It must have happened in the the USA.
• It must have happened in the last year or so.
• The citizen is not employed by the military or the police.
• There was a real threat against the lives of innocent citizens.
• You must post a link to the story.

 

I don't think that the question is whether or not armed citizens ever prevent crimes, but if the number of crimes they prevent outweighs the number of crimes that occur as a direct result of mass gun ownership.. with the severity of the crimes being taken into account, or how effective mass gun ownership is as a crime deterrent.

 

This specific question comes up every time gun control is discussed.
Problem is that there is a disproportionate number of reported incidents of citizen gun ownership thwarting crime vs criminals using guns to commit crimes.
Victims tend to call police considerably more frequently than do non-victims.
Then consider the potential hassle a gun owner may subject themselves to if they do report it.
Then in cases when such incidents are reported, they more often than not fail to make the news simply because people love to love a victim and love to hate a criminal.

So which do you think is going to sell more papers or commercial spots, the victim's story or the hero's?


This is a loaded question from it's inception for the reasons I stated above and even more so considering all the conditions and constraints placed upon any acceptable information.

But if I find stuff that fits within such limited criteria, I will post it.

 

wizdom and citizens do not belong in the same sentence.

 

I hate guns and wish they were never invented....period.

 

Yes, I agree. So, there must be a lot of these stories if the gun lovers are right. Let's read them ...

 

FYI

Myths about Defensive Gun Use and Permissive Gun Carry Laws
http://www.bmsg.org/pdfs/myths.pdf

Before anyone mentions Lott’s More Guns, Less Crime

 

how about the myths concerning gun control;

http://people.duke.edu/~gnsmith/articles/myths.htm

 

your not very meticulous in your research or comprehending research principles, constraints and variables are you?

 

*You're

I know some people don't care but if you're going to insult other people's intelligence, it would help your case not to make such mistakes.

 

Noxious Gas

Be careful of insulting people

 

Haha I love when that happens. You would think holier than thou people would learn to proofread.

 

Yup, you're right.
What was I thinking.
Of course then my typographical error renders anything else I posted as pointless and totally without any merit.

 

I only do it to keep the rest of you on your toes.
Good catch, Fraggle. :2thumbsup:


Keep an eye open for the next pop-quiz.

 

Just the part where you called the other guy 'not very smart'.

I also think gun control in the US is a lost cause... my personal solution is to not live there and never consider living there. It's one of those 'Pandora's box' situations where the only solution is to never have let things get as bad as they are... but it's obviously too late for that.

I'll have to settle for living in the tyrannical police state of Canada.

 

I love when people ask such biased and loaded questions and then develop an air of superiority based on their poor apprehension of a topic or poor research of a topic.

As I stated earlier, this is a loaded question because of the huge discrepancy in the reporting of crimes committed vs crimes averted.

This point has been brought up every time this question is asked and every time the same answer emerges; there is no reliable way to form a solid conclusion based on police reports, and poll's are just as unreliable because the phrasing and manner of questioning skews the results.
I highly doubt either camp plays 100% honest when stating poll results.

So the "evidence" would seem to support Sunfighters premise, but in actuality due to the discrepancy in reporting, any results obtained are very dubious at best and are not representative of the real numbers.

It's just simple logic concerning doing research. :mickey:


Far too often people read some study but never ask the how's and why's of the information and conclusions.

 

Now it is very difficult comparing crime figures form differing countries due to both legal differences and statistical recording methods. For example, the US do not appear to include minor assaults, intimidation, and threats within their definition of violent crime while New Zealand does and these offences comprise nearly half of all violent crime in that country (NZ MoJ).

But let us do a bit of a broad overview.

Police Recorded Rape Cases per 100,000 Population

US – 28.6

England and Wales -27.7

France 16.2

Germany 8.9

Cases of Robbery per 100,000 Population

US – 133

England and Wales -137

France – 181

Germany - 60

Police Recorded Cases burglary 100,000 population

US – 715

England and Wales - 986

France – 513

Germany - 456

Police Recorded Vehicle Theft Cases per 100,000

US – 258

England and Wales - 215

France – 333

Germany – 106

Number of prisoners per 100,000

US – 716

England and Wales – 148

France – 101

Germany – 80

 

I live in London it has a population of around 7.5 million and it only had 175 homicides between Apr-2005 to Apr-2006. In fact in 2009 there were only 651 murders in the whole of England and Wales with a population of around 60 million.

But let us take an American city - Philadelphia – it I believe has a population of around 6.1 million yet it had 406 homicides in that same year. So two Philadelphia’s with only 12.2 million people would create 812 murders, more than what is produced by 60 million Brits.

But if you take out gun related homicides from the US crime figures they do not seem that much different from those of many European countries that have gun restrictions (See Above- although i repeat it is incredible difficult to compare any crime statistics other than homicide).

So the question is are Americans more murderous or is it just that Americans have easier access to much more lethal weapons.

 

You have asked this type of question numerous times in numerous threads and it is not the central topic of this thread.

The statistics you provide don't mean shit.
Did you not understand what I posted about people
NOT REPORTING whenever they PREVENT A CRIME?

That simple fact alone renders any argument such as you or Sunfighter care to mount as pointless.

The degree of willful ignorance in here is astounding at times.

Balbus, you really need to learn how to conduct and comprehend proper research.
As I said, your offering here doesn't mean a frigging thing relative to the OP'S question.

 

I think the culture and especially social conditions have a lot to do with it, personally. Guns make it easier to commit crimes but the social conditions provide the incentive.