Morality?

Discussion in 'Agnosticism and Atheism' started by Alsharad, May 22, 2004.

  1. Jedi

    Jedi Self Banned

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    Is it unwarranted my friend or are you ignorant to the truth? because the scriptures that I read are from the enlightened rishis from the past and they have done great penances, great thinking... invented math, science, medicine, yet weren't satisfied until they were god realized. So would you think that just because bunch of modern scientists have not "yet discovered" such an entity, you think there is no warranty of existence? what about the time he has come to this world? - what about the reasons for why such an entity has not communicated with us for a while?

    You know randomness does not have to contradict supernatural power. Tell me what gravity is... gravity is the pull that an object with a mass has, but what is it really? it is what others may call majical power.. you call it gravity.

    Others may call randomness as a very intricate, critical , powerful mechanism that is made by such a being- who is beyond our senses or power of perception.

    Mr./Ms Gekcopelli, even einstein was bewildered about how twin particles that are opposite to each other can communicate so fast across galaxies in quantum physics and called it "spooky power of the mysterious universe"- I saw it on a discovery science channel.. channel 170 on I.O. digital cable network. Then they made a theory of the seemless whole!- it is a whole because they are all connected and they are all connected to one source...

    So, there is nothing wrong in believing that one source is the source of all conscience, source of all wisdom , source of creation, source of enlightenment and there is nothing wrong in believing that such a source is a consicous entity on its own.. okay? - you may call it crap , illusion or what not, but some idiots like me and also some saints like Mahatma Gandhi, as well as some scientists like Albert Einstein call it the reality and the truth.

    Thanks for reading :D
     
  2. geckopelli

    geckopelli Senior Member

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    Ther IS something wrong with mistaking one's beliefs for reality.

    There's no evidence nor need for a super natural entity.

    Because a relativly ignorant man of the past said something is hardly "proff" of anything.

    Your book and your god's supposed visit(s) to earth are just more assumptions based on your opinion and nothing more. Not ONE shred of objective evidence.

    Dose antiquity equal validation? I submit that your "sages" of the past were fools who filled the gaps in there knowledge expediently.
     
  3. nephthys

    nephthys Member

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    Geckopelli,
    You have to understand that most scripture is written so that it can be understood fairly easily. An intelligent god is a much easier concept to understand than many others. It is obvious that blind belief in god is only sentimentalism, but an intuitive understanding of such concepts can be gained by following the proper procedures and being open-minded. If one's intuition can be verified by another, is it not, to an extent, much like a science?
     
  4. geckopelli

    geckopelli Senior Member

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    Not at all.
    Two people intuitively being wrong is still wrong.

    Better to seek the question than to assume the answer.

    Scriptures were written by the ignorant (no matter there relative wisdom at the time) for the ignorant.

    They were originally an attempt to explain that wich the explainers did not understand themselves.

    Faith is blind to the truth of the reality all around us.

    If there is a "god", it will never come to light as long as religion pretends to KNOW.

    The relgious, with few exceptions, fear and despise anyone who tries to make a resonable inquiry in to the matter of god's existence. And with good reason. There faith IS blind, and they would argue the existence of something they can't even define.
     
  5. Jedi

    Jedi Self Banned

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    Why do you insult religious scriptures like that, no one is asking you to believe in them, but you insult them..

    Did you even read my post entirely? or do you plan to selectively read all your life and take what you think will prove your point? For something to be true, you have to take it as it is... if you have called everyone a fool and think you are only right and if you take the evidence and hide it from yourself and say there is no evidence, then there is no talking to you.

    Heck, there is no reason to discuss this matter here with you because for you O great geckopelli, everyone is a fool... acceptable and GOOD BYE. It was my mistake to try to give another point of view here.. pleases continue to bash every religion that you come across I am sure that will keep your egotism up and running. I for one am not going to sit here and read stupid comments being made about my religion.
     
  6. geckopelli

    geckopelli Senior Member

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    And I'll not sit here while you misrepresent your religion as Reality.

    And I guess you proved the point about the religious propensity to cry offense at any question. You got no answers so question scare the crap out of you.
    Typical.

    Adios, chicito.

    Come back when you have the strentgh of your convictions.
     
  7. Jedi

    Jedi Self Banned

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    What questions? from your comments about "they are ignorant" , you don't seem to give me any examples... you have no slightest idea about what you are talking about.

    Give me an example of what sage is ignorant? Vasistha? valmiki? Vedavyas ? Sukadeva? you dont have to know about them,

    tell me what is so ignorant in the 23 psalm in the chrisitian bible? with out any research and with nothing but your own perceptions- you say they are ignorant- there is no God ... thats just foolish.

    A Dios!- funny huh? you used it too, I am sure you will say "Oh God!" when your pissed off.

    I have enough strength in my understanding, you see it as if it is a religion, I see it as a way of life. I don't impose that my religion is the truth. I am trying to say here that the essential factor of all religions- that which talks of the supreme is the truth... try to stretch your mind to something else than the opinionated direction you are trying to pull it (or are helplessly pulled by your own ego perhaps?) .
     
  8. Razorofoccam

    Razorofoccam Banned

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    Also

    That we are ALL ignorant.
    Of just about everything..

    To become less ignorant.

    Some say reason/logic/method is the way.
    While some rely on human feeling and Connectedness with reality.
    On meditation and deep links with a creator that reason cannot yet see if it exists. Another way.

    On the issue of the existence of a god.
    Be it the god descibed by religion or a creator that we cannot describe.

    The only method that any can use without a lifetime of commitment.
    Ie: an alternative to believing on faith. A religion.
    IS reason/logic/method.

    IT says that we cannot say if ANY description of god is accurate to reality.
    however.. it also says.
    many of the great wise humans of our history.
    Were also religious humans.
    A perfect example is einstein.
    A man of god...Yet a unveiler of hidden truth.
    A wise man
    He saw in conceptual dimensions both physical and moral.
    He is the 'man' because. He was the most physically meek.
    And able to define the inner wokings or reality.
    He abhored violence.
    Promoted understanding.

    But all the answers so far are of the physical. How atom A reacts with atom B
    All, seems to occam to be indeterminate. Unresolved.

    To occam religion is a result of a wordless feeling that someone is setting the rules.
    Individual stories are all wrong. But there IS something setting the rules.

    What that is... we are too stupid to understand. [yet]


    Occam
     
  9. geckopelli

    geckopelli Senior Member

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    Your sages were ignorant of the fundemental aspects of Reality. They believed in magic.

    They made up stories to explain life, the universe, and everything.

    You believe those stories without reason, and you doubt them so much you try to hide them in logic.
    --------
    Of course I use the word "God". I speak english. Sometimes it's an good swear word. Christ!

    While you're standing on your feet of clay, you might notice YOUR ignorance is showing.

    Present your religion as religon- if you really believe it.
     
  10. nephthys

    nephthys Member

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    "Not at all.
    Two people intuitively being wrong is still wrong."

    But if many scientists are logically right, it should carry a stronger weight? :)

    "Scriptures were written by the ignorant (no matter there relative wisdom at the time) for the ignorant."

    How could you possibly know this, my dear?

    "The relgious, with few exceptions, fear and despise anyone who tries to make a resonable inquiry in to the matter of god's existence. And with good reason. There faith IS blind, and they would argue the existence of something they can't even define."

    My child, you speak of the religious as if there were in thousands. In reality there are very few who are truly religious and those of us who are, understand what has to be understood. We don't try to argue about anything's existence; what we know is for us to know and if we know wrong, but it still makes us far happier than you could possibly imagine, why should we be worried? We don't want to impose our religion on you but we want you to be open-minded, for your own good. It doesn't harm us. Try to understand what you truly believe and not just what your conscious mind has conditioned you to believe. After doing that ou still don't believe in god? Well neither do I, but its the byproduct that matters... :)
     
  11. Jedi

    Jedi Self Banned

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    HELLO!??!

    Knock knock, who's there?

    Are you trying to explain to me about logic? sigh! All you do is just bash and bash and bash say they are all ignorant and made up stories and did not prove to you scientifically and you provide no proof...

    Nice talking to you... keep on ranting about how God doesn't exist!! I see that whatever I do, you keep saying the same sentences... "Your sages are ignorant" "you are ignorant" and then if some one like einstein comes back and proves it to you then you probably will also say "he is ignorant" , when God himself stands in front of you , you probably will say "he is ignorant' too... there is no reason to discuss anything here, you are absolutely right, God will not exist to you if you think he doesn't exist, but keep one thing in your puny little human mind, that no matter what you think God has existed in the past, God exists now and God will continue to exist after you pass away even if he does not exist to you, he will very well continue to exist with complete independence.

    Good night SIR/MA'AM!
     
  12. geckopelli

    geckopelli Senior Member

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    You know nothing of logic, child.

    Nor patience. You would be wise to study the teachings of Jesus.
     
  13. nephthys

    nephthys Member

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    Jedi,
    You are far too emotional. :)
     
  14. Jedi

    Jedi Self Banned

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    I agree with you to some extent, I totally agree with you in that individual stories are just our understanding of what truly happened and I agree with that... however something truly did happen though... thats why they are there and that something was so amazing that they wrote so many stories about it.

    Stories about God exist in every culture, its not just a feeling, but it is a hidden reality deep with in our consciousness.
    We have the capability to understand it,
    All we have to do is revive our true consciousness and when it happens we will understand the truth behind all these religions.

    If we just abandon all religions and seek God for only Him then He will reveal himself to us , this is what He himself proclaimed. If we want examples, we can have many-

    One would be how his 'son' preferred love or organized religion of early judaism and paganism. Another would be God himself telling us "Abandon all religions and surrender unto me, you will come to me, do not fear" in Bhagavad Gita and you can find references to this with every single one of the religions in the world.

    To fight organized religion that is set up in ignorance is one thing, but to claim that there is no God at all is totally different. No one dares to do that because everyone knows deep inside of one that He is there. The people who bring him out become truly great- Take Martin Luther king for example... and he is very religious. Another example would be Mahatma Gandhi. One more example would be the ancient enlightened ones like moses or the early modern sufi saints.

    These great people are great because they realise their true nature and submit to his supreme power and convert their minds from the unnatural "me, mine , I want this, thats mine! war , evil" mode to the natural "we , us friends, brothers, peace! happiness" mode...

    I am not saying that you cannot be good with being an "Atheist" , you can, but if you continue to be good and an atheist, even if you don't agree on the outside, on your inside you will finally come to terms and say "Okay fine God, here you are , so what was your deal of hiding yourself?"
     
  15. Jedi

    Jedi Self Banned

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    Well its not like I want to be emotional , but when you see people just bashing everyone who believes in a supreme being to build their own ego and false sense of intelligence, it makes something really strong come out from inside of you... you might be able to control it neophythys, but I don't... I say whatever comes to my mind if it is right.
     
  16. Razorofoccam

    Razorofoccam Banned

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    Jedi

    And what of occam who is no atheist.
    But says that through methods other than any belief in a god.
    We as people can make a world of , quote you.
    "we , us friends, brothers, peace! happiness"
    An through THAT. And the reason that allows it.
    We become a race that CAN answer questions about a creator/director.
    [ a god if you will]
    Occam says we must become rational FIRST. [as a race]
    Then have underanding.
    Not the reverse.

    The only racial understanding we have on any mater not emotive/survival..
    IS through rational method.
    We gained most of that in the last 50 years.
    That shows you how fast we are learning.
    We have gained more understanding of the workings of reality in the last 50 years than all human history before that.
    What will we understand in another hundred?
    Much..
    And will we bicker and kill over it. yes.
    Reason must become the way of society.
    Not just societies ability to define reality.
    Reason working with emotion.
    The engine and the steering.
    Ability and Desire. [desire is not a dirty word]
    In Unity

    What is most important to occam's neighbour?
    Who won the football game yesterday.
    What is most important to occam?
    Well he told that in another post...
    But for our race..
    'that we do not kill ourselves with our new understanding.'

    Occam
     
  17. geckopelli

    geckopelli Senior Member

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    That only bashing is you on me. The only ego is your insecure one.

    I demand rigorous explanation from anyone who pretends there religion is scientific- and so far pretend is all you've done. Same for those who claim god-inspired science.

    It may be tough for you to face, But I understand religion (and it use and uses) far, far better than you. You would label me an atheist with your pen of self-righteous indignation, yet never inquire about the truth.

    You're mistaking your opinion for the Common Reality.

    Time to open your mind, grasshopper.
     
  18. Jedi

    Jedi Self Banned

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    I completely agree with you, we must first unify ourselves into one race, but to do that we have to find something in common, the best way to do it is through God realization. With God realization, everything can be solved.

    If through realizing God characters like Martin Luther king, Buddha-(yes he realized God in impersonal nature- everything he teaches is from hinduism), Christ, Shankara, Chaitanya, the sufi saints , Baha u llah, Gandhi, Ramanuja, Vivekananda and many many more around the world came about, then imagine how it must be if everyone was God realized.

    it can happen, the only way to beat evil is from with in one self because the only devil really to worry about is the treacherous one that roams in the dark corners of our hearts. We have to try to fight that and bring the true God with in us out... thats one of the best ways to unity , Occam.
     
  19. Jedi

    Jedi Self Banned

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    First of all, I have an ego, but not as big as yours. Mine is a very insecure one, thank you very much and will rein like fire if some one says something totally ignorant while acting all "wise" .

    I don't have to argue with you about anything, I am not trying to prove anything to you, I am enraged by the fact that you can call everything there is "crap" just to keep yourself feeling "wise" in your own eyes.

    You know about religion?!- HA! I bet you didn't even make atleast one honest to any religion, let alone christianity.
    If you think christianity, judaism, Islam are all wrong and BS why don't you go and try Bahai faith? or Buddhism? or Hinduism? How about sikhism? Jainism? Zorastranianism? Taoism?

    Why don't you give them all an honest try before saying "I know religion much better than you", if you are older than me that does not make you wiser! and whats with that comments like Grasshopper and child? - I am not going to fall for those tricks. Just keep one thing in mind, in here you and me are always EQUAL.

    Time to open your own eyes .
     
  20. geckopelli

    geckopelli Senior Member

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    Jedi.

    Don't dump your insecurity on me.

    Ego is not my problem. Niethier is ignorance.

    And although I will defend your political equality with arms if need be, in General Knowledge I am much your superior-youngster!

    Back before you were a glimmer in your mom's eye I was 18 and "young enough to know everything"- kinda like you.
    And I BEGAN a 30 year, ONGOING, study of religions and philosophies (Attend! Many of the "religions" you mention are Philosophies- NOT religions). So don't think an article or two makes you an authority.
    Age dose not bring wisdom; nor does insecurity, youth, and ignorance.
    Wisdom is begat by Knowledge and Experience.
    ---

    And don't give me no more, "just because your older" crap.
    Maybe you ought to get around the hip forums a little more.

    Geckopelli is well know as an ally of the young- here and in Real Space.

    Now stop wallowing in the insecurity of your beliefs and step up to the task that has been laid before you.

    I'm talking about Life.
     

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