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What do you think of the US education system?




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#41 skitzo child

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Posted May 24 2013 - 10:42 AM

Horrible we are behind in the world

#42 Glasshopper

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Posted May 24 2013 - 01:03 PM

"]Charlotte Iserbyt: The Deliberate Dumbing Down of the World - YouTube
There is a crack in everything, that is how the light gets in.
-Leonard Cohen

#43 Mike Suicide

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Posted May 24 2013 - 01:22 PM

No, homeschool kids end up weird. You need the social experience of school.


I agree. Plus most teachers have years of experience and specialize in various subject. Most parents are not qualified to teach their children.

religion for people afraid of going to hell.spirituality is for people who have been there.

getting laid is not the same as getting free consensual sex. that actually may be comparable to winning the lottery.

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#44 MeAgain

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Posted May 24 2013 - 02:17 PM

If you are truly concerned about the U.S. education system, get the book: http://www.amazon.com/Death-Great-American-School-System/dp/0465014917/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1287674809&sr=1-1"]The Death and Life of the Great American School System by Diane Ravitch.

Ravitch was a U.S. Assistant Secretary of Education and originally supported "No Child Left Behind" and charter schools but

later became "disillusioned," and wrote, "I no longer believe that either approach will produce the quantum improvement in American education that we all hope for." In the major national evaluation, 17% of charters got higher scores, 46% were no different, and 37% were significantly worse than public schools, she said. High-stakes testing, "utopian" goals, "draconian" penalties, school closings, privatization, and charter schools didn't work, she concluded. "The best predictor of low academic performance is poverty—not bad teachers."[10]

Ravitch said that the charter school and testing reform movement was started by "right wing think tanks like the Heritage Foundation," for the purpose of destroying public education and teachers' unions.[11] She reviewed the documentary Waiting for Superman, directed by Davis Guggenheim, as "propagandistic" (pro-charter schools and anti-public schools), studded with "myths" and at least one "flatly wrong" claim.[12]

A very good book packed with statistics that back up her claims.

#45 Glasshopper

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Posted May 24 2013 - 05:38 PM

"]Who Controls The Children (schools dumb down kids deliberately) - YouTube
There is a crack in everything, that is how the light gets in.
-Leonard Cohen

#46 redgingergirl

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Posted May 27 2013 - 07:49 PM

Highly enlightening. I believe the best thing for children now is to be home schooled by their family's that way you can decide what information they receive and how they receive it best for their own mental improvement.

#47 mike bedell

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Posted May 27 2013 - 09:14 PM

i thimk evryone deservs a good edumacation

#48 redgingergirl

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Posted May 28 2013 - 11:28 AM

lol hahahah

#49 tubahead

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Posted May 28 2013 - 12:09 PM

I can tell as a Graduate Assistant for a Freshman level Philosophy course, education in the US is definitely lacking in the reading, writing, and critical thinking department. I would have students who could not put together cogent sentences and got upset when I marked down for lack of original content. I think that a big part of the problem is the U.S's emphasis on the so called "STEM" subjects (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math). In reality thought the emphasis is on the middle two. Science and math are only emphasized in that they are useful for technology and engineering. I heard a quote about the how all this emphasis in science might cure our shortage of scientists, but it will only create a shortage of leaders.

#50 redgingergirl

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Posted May 28 2013 - 12:24 PM

Interesting perspective it makes alot of sense to me. I'm under the impression the powers that be wish to dumb us down as much as possible so we will be cattle instead of free thinkers. I do find it interesting that in the past there have been many philosophers and scientists as role models for our children. Now its heavyweight champions and nascar drivers that don't offer anything intellectual to the table.

#51 tubahead

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Posted May 28 2013 - 12:36 PM

I'm under the impression the powers that be wish to dumb us down as much as possible so we will be cattle instead of free thinkers. I do find it interesting that in the past there have been many philosophers and scientists as role models for our children. Now its heavyweight champions and nascar drivers that don't offer anything intellectual to the table.


You know, I don't really buy into the dumbing down of America thing or that it is a conspiracy. More people are going to college and in fact it is very much encouraged. I would have lots of students who did not need to be in college. It wasn't that they weren't smart enough, most just didn't really care. If you don't care for book learning, I would say college is not a good place to go. Go do something else that you do find interesting. Go be a plumber or an electrician. You will probably be able to find a steady job, it will be fairly well paying to support a family. It is relatively stress free compared to a lot of corporate jobs. There is nothing wrong with doing skilled labor or anything else that you want to do, if you don't find want to go to college. The problem is everybody is told, you have to go to college to do anything. They make it a sort of value judgment so kids go who didn't necessarily need to, and now they have tons of debt. Don't get me wrong, I am all for more education to be a good citizen, but you should learn those things in high school, and leave higher education for those who really have an interest in it.

I am also not sure that philosophers and thinkers were ever that big of role models. It was pretty much always sports stars and celebrities. A lot of the time, only the upper classes would have heard of any philosophers, and they were the ones whose history was recorded. It kind of skews history.

#52 redgingergirl

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Posted May 28 2013 - 01:32 PM

Well our opinions may differ there but you have to admit that television is a large cause of children feeling less like learning and losing other things in life as well. I do think that if you were to take a 8th grade test from fifty years ago and have 8th graders take the test now none of them would pass because there was more information required to be learned then. There is nothing wrong with hard labor, but whats wrong with a hard working labor man that is intellectual as well. men used to be concerned with things like politics and economy and now that is something only smart men talk about.

#53 tubahead

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Posted May 28 2013 - 03:41 PM

There is absolutely nothing wrong with "a hard working labor man that is intellectual as well." I have known many, but they went to college and were interested in attending and participating. The students I was referring to are individuals who had no interest in being at university and were only there because they thought they had to be there.

As far as the tests go, IQ tests scores are actually rising across generations. Fairly significantly. We also have to figure, nobody used to learn calculus in high school. Nobody had advanced chemistry placement. Now those classes are very common. I can remember asking my parent with homework help in Jr. High, and they would always say, "I can't believe they expect you to learn this in Jr. High." Once I got into high school, they couldn't help anymore. My Dad was pretty smart too. He got through medical school.

I am also not really sure that only smart men talk about politics and the economy. I grew up in a very small town where very few people went to college. Many didn't finish high school, but I have had lots of friends that would talk about those kinds of things all the time. I think that is sort of a perception that people have but I don't think it is accurate.

#54 MeAgain

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Posted May 28 2013 - 04:32 PM

I've always liked Alvin Toffler, in this video he explains some of the problems with public ed, but he doesn't offer any soultions....which disapointed me and makes the whole thing kinda moot:

"]Alvin Toffler on Education - YouTube

I'd like to keep a central "meeting ground" for students where the tools and instructors, or mentors, that they need would be available and at the same time inject some level of freedom into the mix.

I believe in a well rounded individual so I would strongly support History, English (critical reading in particular), Art, Music, Phys ed, etc. and at the same time the STEM subjects, as technology/engineering is an excellent way to foster creativity in a problem solving environment that draws on science and math and demands "real world" solutions.

Incidentally, technology would be the use of all tools from hammers to CNC machines, computers are just one technological tool so I am not using the term in its currant popular form.



#55 Pressed Rat

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Posted May 28 2013 - 04:38 PM

You know, I don't really buy into the dumbing down of America thing or that it is a conspiracy. More people are going to college and in fact it is very much encouraged. I would have lots of students who did not need to be in college. It wasn't that they weren't smart enough, most just didn't really care. If you don't care for book learning, I would say college is not a good place to go. Go do something else that you do find interesting. Go be a plumber or an electrician. You will probably be able to find a steady job, it will be fairly well paying to support a family. It is relatively stress free compared to a lot of corporate jobs. There is nothing wrong with doing skilled labor or anything else that you want to do, if you don't find want to go to college. The problem is everybody is told, you have to go to college to do anything. They make it a sort of value judgment so kids go who didn't necessarily need to, and now they have tons of debt. Don't get me wrong, I am all for more education to be a good citizen, but you should learn those things in high school, and leave higher education for those who really have an interest in it.

I am also not sure that philosophers and thinkers were ever that big of role models. It was pretty much always sports stars and celebrities. A lot of the time, only the upper classes would have heard of any philosophers, and they were the ones whose history was recorded. It kind of skews history.


People going to college means nothing if the colleges are nothing more than indoctrination centers. The fact more people are going to college simply means more people are being brainwashed to mindlessly serve the system. Colleges are to real education what McDonalds is to real food.

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#56 tubahead

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Posted May 28 2013 - 04:45 PM

I believe in a well rounded individual so I would strongly support History, English (critical reading in particular), Art, Music, Phys ed, etc. and at the same time the STEM subjects, as technology/engineering is an excellent way to foster creativity in a problem solving environment that draws on science and math and demands "real world" solutions.




I definitely agree with that. I think that well rounded is very much the key at younger ages. Once you get into college, you can be a little less rounded in what you learn, but there is still a certain level of roundedness. Don't get me wrong, I am very much in favor of the STEM subjects being taught. They are very important. What I have issue with is them being emphasized to the detriment of the more liberal arts subjects, which I think is happening. Even within the STEM subjects, science is really only seen as a way to support technology. The more theoretical sciences don't get the same kinds of support that the very practical engineering sciences get. At the university I went to, the philosophy department was in a small office that was falling down. The engineering campus was state of the art and very well maintained. I think you are hitting the key with problem solving abilities. That is what is really important.

#57 tubahead

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Posted May 28 2013 - 04:58 PM

People going to college means nothing if the colleges are nothing more than indoctrination centers. The fact more people are going to college simply means more people are being brainwashed to mindlessly serve the system. Colleges are to real education what McDonalds is to real food.


We in the philosophy departments love brainwashing people. It really is what gets us off. I make all of my students take an oath of complete obedience to my will. I don't like to teach them things like Argument ad hominem, argument ad authoritatem, ad hoc reasoning, false dichotomies, circular reasoning. I make them take my opinion and all others get fails. I learned all this from my philosophy professors who are exactly the same. Liberal Arts is this way in general. I don't like for my students to the about real issues like good and bad, rights, freedom, life. They don't really need to make any decisions about those anyway.

#58 ~One And ALL~

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Posted May 28 2013 - 05:01 PM

I will say that the first time I ever watched Brazil was in a first year philosophy course.

I had a cpl really good philosophy professors who truly pushed free thinking and I learned a lot in those courses. I absolutely loved debating theories w one particular prof. (the one who had us watch and analyze diff aspects of Brazil) and I loved taking the essay tests in that course too.

But yea.. .it depends on what classes you're taking, etc.

#59 redgingergirl

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Posted May 28 2013 - 05:02 PM

We in the philosophy departments love brainwashing people. It really is what gets us off. I make all of my students take an oath of complete obedience to my will. I don't like to teach them things like Argument ad hominem, argument ad authoritatem, ad hoc reasoning, false dichotomies, circular reasoning. I make them take my opinion and all others get fails. I learned all this from my philosophy professors who are exactly the same. Liberal Arts is this way in general. I don't like for my students to the about real issues like good and bad, rights, freedom, life. They don't really need to make any decisions about those anyway.


Well atleast your honest but the way you talk I wouldn't be surprised one bit.

#60 tubahead

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Posted May 28 2013 - 05:13 PM

Well atleast your honest but the way you talk I wouldn't be surprised one bit.


Really? Honestly most of the time I don't lecture, I just lead discussions. I like to point out the basics of argument, but really let anybody speak freely about their opinions. I want tolerate any bullying by anyone in the class. As long as they give some good reasons, and can communicate those reasons pretty well, they get good grades. I have had lots of really good essays from students on all sides of any given issue. I am always pulling for them too. I want to learn something from my students and many times they come up with stuff I never would have thought of. I love being able to give credit to a student for coming up with something really interesting. As long as they really show that they have put in some time thinking about an issue, I am very happy. My goal is always that they have no idea what my thought on the matter is. Lots of times I will end up defending the opposite view of what I have to keep things interesting. I always think that the students probably think I am either super conservative or super liberal depending on the discussions.




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