Likely being 'kicked out' of graduate program- help.

I don't think benadryl and weed are as effective in treating psychotic episodes than an anti-psychotic.

 

I wish the medicinal solution was that easy. Believe me I tried that approach many years ago. It doesn't treat the real, tangible symptoms of a schizophrenic illness: bizarre delusions, real auditory hallucinations, threatening paranoia and crippling depersonalization.

Please read over it though. I could use all the advice i can get.

 

Hi etkearn, first off i am sorry to hear about your situation mate, it's really unfortunate that your illness is effecting you to persue your dreams and with the most respect i can sympathise with you greatly here.

Obviously this is not your fault that you have to take these meds and i think you are wise to remain on them considering the severity of the symptoms you suffer, it's awfull that your classmates think you are stupid as you clearly aren't, i respect anyone that would choose a career in mathematics, you have a bachelors in mathematics and this clearly indicates you are not stupid.

It seems to me you have very high expectations for yourself and i wonder if this is doing you more harm than good, though on the flip side i appreciate you have ambitions, i just hope you arent being to hard on yourself.

The only practical advice i can offer you is if meybe you can explore career paths in other countries in which the desired qualifications for which ever it is you may decide to do aren't so stringent, your very smart and i have every faith that you will find a way around this or at least come to a comprimise with yourself in which you can lesson the stress for you and can offer you a fulfilling career, keep open minded in the options you have man and i wish you all the best man, wholeheartedly

 

Okay, so I read it better.

Still, I say try something else. Math is either right or wrong (I know lots about the latter situation) and so a condition like yours may well affect it more. Music or other art might actually BENEFIT from your condition. And I'm not making a jab at creative things, I'm just saying there's a lot more kinds of emotions and thoughts that can be twisted together and used artistically, while math requires cold hard logic, and the less of everything else the better.

The only solution I can see, as far as math goes, is finding COMPETENT treatment who will work with you and not try to confine you or anything, and working to find a cure, be it mental, or a way to actually stop the reasons for your problems, instead of sedating you to the point of dulling the symptoms. 50 hours a week of half asleep "zombified" math isn't going to teach you a hell of a lot, but 50 hours of delusional painting or music could create some pretty cool shit

Have you experimented with just rolling with your problems, instead of trying to suppress them, when not on meds?

I'm not telling you to stop taking them, I know you said you wouldn't and of course I understand why, but I still think it's an interesting angle.

Also, there are a lot of careers that don't require any specific degree, where having the degree is what matters. It shows you'll buckle down and get it, EVEN with terrifying delusions mixed into the hellish medication.

It's totally true that you can't do ANYTHING you set your mind to.... I think better phrase would be something along the lines of "You have what it takes to be happy with yourself and your life, you just have to figure out how". Being content with yourself and your position is what matters, if you have a condition that makes studying it hard, why would you want to be a tenured math professor? This entails all sorts of publications and whatnot, and hard studying to teach anyways, in order to be a good professor. There wouldn't be less pressure once you made it there, it would stay constant. With your condition, if no better management can be found, I can't see math professor being a good profession for you anyways, and I'm not trying to be mean. How could you be happy, spending your entire life just battling meds and delusion to stay up to par with what you'd need to teach stuff you've already done? given your current grades and your meds effects, you'd have to do the same as you are now to stay fit to teach.

I'm not trying to be mean at all, I mean no offense. It just sounds like you might have picked an insanely hard goal (sounds fucking scary to ME, anyway..... I have enough W's and C's under my belt, and I'm an undergrad sophomore without a declared major, still!!!)

Or maybe I'm just an underachiever anyway, don't take my advice to join my underachieving club.

 

Something tells me he's probably tried it without the meds before. There is clearly a reason he's on it, you don't do those meds recreationally. I don't see him as trying to suppress his problems, I think he is trying to manage a disease which is causing him great suffering. The "reasons for his problems" in this case is actual brain chemistry. Neurotransmitters are powerful little bastards, and if they go haywire, you will lose it. Anyone would. Willpower or self-discipline has absolutely nothing to do with it. Sometimes medications are a necessary evil, and the least supportive thing you could do is question why the person would "willingly" take it--as if they have a real choice.

As for the suggestion about art and music....I think you are confusing schizoid disorder with the mania of bipolar disorder. It has been found that many artists/musicians have also been bipolar, but it is a huge stretch to assume that all those with any type of mental illness would be awesome at art/music. I wouldn't think you'd be very inspired to paint if you had voices telling you to hurt yourself.

Mental illness is treated horribly by our society (better than most, but still horribly). You wouldn't tell an asthmatic to stop taking their meds, but somehow when you talk about mental illness, everyone suddenly has a phd in psychology. Hell, that's even true of physical illness on these forums--"Don't take any pharmaceuticals, don't listen to any doctor! I'm a high school kid and I've been researching on wikipedia and I know exactly what herbs you should take!"

This is directed more at society in general, not so much you personally...I just feel strongly about mental health awareness.

 

This is not how I meant those things.

I know asthmatics who have totally transitioned off their meds, with no problems, no side effects, and better treatment, by smoking or vaporizing weed. So yes, I would and do tell them to stop sucking in poison, if they're in a position where they can smoke pot.

If you read my post, I pointedly said that he should NOT try to use self control to simply discipline his problems away (though I didn't use those words), because trying to control something you can't will only cause un-needed anxiety at the possibility of the return of symptoms, despair, depression, and terror at the times of their return, etc. Of course the problem is in neurotransmitters, which is why I suggested a pair of drugs that act in similar ways to his medication. My suggestions also make you tired, but not in a dysphoric or difficult way. Unless he can find a way to actually make his brain more chemically balanced, tired (or delusional) will be a part of his life, it seems.

I understand that this is not some happy delusion, but I would still counsel the OP to work to build a strong enough personality and understanding of himself and the world THROUGH it that he can depend on himself more than he can meds. But this would probably entail giving up math, at least graduate level math.

Obviously being crazy won't result in great art all the time. I know some horrible shit painted by crazy people. But this guy is obviously very bright, and it is a fact that many of the things that cause delusions and hallucinations have to do with excess pathways in the brain, or abnormal ways of functioning (or outright malfunctioning) which IS the essence of creativity. Creativity involves bending the rules and combining things that "should" not be, but just enough, without overdoing it (which is when nothing follows and things just become noise).

I don't think this is a very coherent comeback to your post, maybe I'll come back when I have coffee. But either way, read my shit again.

And one more time, YES, I'd tell all sorts of people to either live with their problems instead of fight them (and being on antipsychotics is the essence of fighting problems. If you're suppressing, and obviously dreading, symptoms, then you CAN'T be comfortable in your own skin) or to medicate alternatively. Of course there's pharmaceutical miracles for many things, but there's also all sorts of natural things that can help. Again, WEED. If just being sedated helps, hell, 3 catnip joints and I won't be properly awake for 3 days. Chamomile. Valerian root. Try simple, safe sedatives and see what sort of effect they have. (obviously, don't without checking for med interactions)

Anyways, you get my point, or if you don't, typing more won't make you..... Best of luck, OP, I'll check back to shoot the shit and see how you're doing. Maybe I can't say shit, because if voices told me to do things, we would probably end up debating politics.

 

Honey, I am so sorry for your suffering. I'm not going to feed you a bunch of junk and cliches, but I'll pray for you, and offer a little advice:

In the state of Tennessee, and most likely other places, you can substitute or teach for county schools with a "soft" background check - If you don't have a bad arrest record, you can work. There's only one state-funded non-college school in Tennessee. You can teach math here, and they'll give you a little time and funds to get an education degree (which ain't a thing, as far as effort goes), and you can have a good living with a good retirement.

It's one option out of many, but something to consider.

 

Benadryl is an anticholinergic like his medication, but that's like saying, "I know you just had major surgery, but we're all out of morphine. Here's a baby aspirin." All analgesics and anticholinergics are not created equal.

 

You can adjust dose, and pick and choose, or combine several. There's lots of OTC anticholergenics on the market, and you can use benadryl recreationally as one would datura, so with an adjusted dose, it's got the kick for about anything.

 

I don't want to be a smarty-pants, but your ideas about medication are dangerous and incorrect. You don't just tinker with a bunch of OTC drugs to get the effects of Zyprexa - We don't even know how it works. Just taking OTC drugs to replace an anti-psychotic is NOT SAFE.

You may know someone who replaced their corticosteroid inhaler with pot, but I promise you, this isn't the same deal.

ETA: I know OP isn't dumb enough to try this, but other people might try this. DON'T TAKE ALLERGY PILLS TO REPLACE YOUR ANTI-PSYCHOTICS!

 

it's not easy, it's one of the hardest things. My dreams were never that grand so I doubt the depth of my pain was on par. But I believe it is very similar to forgiving yourself after committing terrible sin. the idea is being able to release what you're holding on to. Fuck I'm not there yet. I have to be able to look at myself and say even though you molested children you deserve to live and find happiness. That's the wall between me and inner peace (happiness). in time and reflection you'll find what you need to overcome to find peace.

to see everything you worked for burn and be able to cry out, morn it, and move on is buddist path to happyness. It won't be easy but either you live with it and live miserablely or let go of being miserable and choose freedom.

you don't have to wake up tomorrow and be like "woops that sucked time to find my next dream," this is just something out there to work towards, to work on, to know that freedom and happiness are out there. there are out there waiting for you.

 

The difference being that OP deserves happiness, and that you're an ongoing child molester/abuser and deserve a cold cell.

 

Hi, again, everyone. This reply is directed at everyone, so feel free to read it.

I have carefully read everyone's replies and it feels nice to know that people that I know only over the internet are genuinely concerned for me. Since I have no friends in the Graduate Program, even internet friends are a 'plus' in this hard time.

Let me try to explain the Zyprexa a little better. I never really explained it in detail and it is a complicated drug.

Zyprexa is a second-generation antipsychotic. So compared to the first generation drugs like Thorazine, it is actually pretty good. But, like everyone has agreed, even a slight cognitive dulling as a side effect of the medication would stick out like a sore thumb in such a 'cerebral' Program. The only two pharmacologically relevant actions of Zyprexa are its antagonization of the Dopamine-II receptors and its antagonization of the 5-HT2C receptors.

It has been nearly unanimously proven that schizophrenia is strongly correlated to an over-activation of the Dopamine-II receptors. That DOES NOT mean that it is a 'chemical imbalance' or anything, nor does it even have much to do with the neurotransmitter Dopamine. It is just a particular receptor that happens to be part of the Dopamine family. The reason it is implicated in schizophrenia is that it leads to massive release of Glutamate in the areas of the brain associated with both hearing and learning. Glutamate is excitatory, so you can put the picture together.

The antagonization of 5-HT2C is important because it releases the neurotransmitter Dopamine (somewhat like Amphetamine). Again, don't confuse the Dopamine receptor and the neurotransmitter itself. They are different things. But releasing Dopamine is key to Zyprexa's powerful anti-depressive effects. So with the anti-schizophrenia and anti-depressant effects, that is why the drug works so well for me.

The anti-histamine and anti-cholinergic effects are purely side-effects. They contribute nothing beneficial to the drug. Although it was once believed that 'good' antipsychotics are good sedatives, this is not true. The picture is more complex than that. And all of my problems stem from the side effects of histamine and acetylcholine antagonization, not the D-II or 5-HT2C effects.

But unfortunately that haven't invented a better drug YET. But I am confident they will. There is even a new one, Latuda, that was just invented and my doctor said he will try me on in a few months. Who knows? It could get my cognition back where it needs to be.

So, technically, smoking Cannabis would probably help my situation. I'll agree with that. But, it isn't going to replace the unique action on the Dopamine-II receptor. It would help with just the mood/anxiety part of the disorder, not the raw psychoses.

The next big 'topic' is my 'problem' with accepting failure. This is something I have dealt with since I was very little. I was considered almost a prodigy at mathematics as a child (pre-mental health issues) and got praised for my abilities my whole life. So I have a strong 'complex' where I form my identity around other people's approval. I have been in psychotherapy for many years now to fix this, but have made little process, despite genuinely trying to change things.

To me, I have no worth other than my intelligence. And since have been surrounded by academia-culture since the start of undergraduate school, the people who were the smartest were nearly 'worshipped' and I craved to be in that position. So that is why I am so 'let down.' It is the only world I know, and from being conditioned by academia, I genuinely believe that academic success is the 'best' type of success.

In the end, I DO just want happiness, but in my way of that is the deep-planted schemas of perfectionism, excellence, and approval-seeking. Those things invade my psyche SO deeply, that I can't seem to make any progress in therapy despite years of it with multiple therapists. I just started with a new therapist a month ago, and she is already stuck on how to help me since I have such firm beliefs.

Some days are better than others in terms of being able to 'accept myself'. Today hasn't been too bad, but that may be since I didn't have class today and didn't have to be around the cut-throat academic culture.

I realize, to myself, that I have accomplished a lot for the bad deck of cards I was dealt. I DID get a Bachelor's degree AND I managed to remain mentally stable during the entire semester whereas a year ago, I would be quasi-psychotic by this point. But then I realize that to OTHER people, those things aren't as important. For example, in my extended family, I have a cousin my age who is in grad school for psychology. She is a model student and gets all A's. I honestly don't think she is any smarter than me, but her, her sister, and her mother (my aunt) constantly talk about her successes to me, knowing my struggles. It is sick. That is one reason I am refusing to go to Thanksgiving Dinner with my family this year. As a protest.

Please keep responding. All of your advice is useful, no matter what.

 

I think grad school in psychology can be pushed through with considerably less intelligence than math. Don't get me wrong, the smarter the better, still, I'm not putting down psychology or anything else, but again, math requires specific mental abilities, you can't just memorize a bunch of different viewpoints and spit them out for a test, and slam them together when you write a paper. Getting strait A's in most subjects COULD mean that you are a really good student, OR that you're just getting A's, it all depends what you put into it. Don't feel bad because your family think life is a competition, it's too bad they've rubbed this off onto you to the degree that you have. Worry about being happy because of the things you can do, not the things you can do in relation to other people, or what others think of the things you can do.

Other than that I don't know what to say, it sounds like you have a very good handle on everything, even if it's difficult. Don't give up, but be willing to try other things. And if you need to take an academic break and work on meds or something, then try to work it out so you can do that without dropping out.

You yourself said that academic culture is cut-throat. Especially math culture, and especially at a graduate level. Don't worry about what they think. Do what makes you happy. I used to know people that did math in their spare time, after finishing "real" homework. My dad spent a few years recently working on mathematical models, and he's many years out of school.... unfortionatly I think the cut-throat academic-ness got to him, he did most of the work and was going to publish with a math PHD being the co-author, and she tried to hijack things.... I don't think they ended up publishing anything in the end.

 

that's sound nice that maybe one day a drug will come out of the blue and give you a symptom free life (though knowing how the world work it will happen after you've found a new path...cosmic irony and all)

life is a balancing act. the particular beam I see you tottering on is self-worth. that first bold line, a miserable vantage point, to have no value to yourself other than your intelligence. it seems men are most tranquil when they can appreciate themselves. Like later you mention your accomplishments, the deeds you have been able to do in the situation given to you.

a therapist, friend, lover will never be able to change your beliefs all they can do is point out what your actions are, what your actions appear to mean, and give you questions and decision so you can makes steps to change your beliefs if you want to. it seem impossible at first, like turning the sky green. it starts small in thoughts. I don't need to be smart to love myself. I don't need to succeed to love myself. (it's weird when you're not desperate for success I have found a stronger draw towards it, and motivation that springs from a desire as oppose to a reward)

your cousin accomplishments don't diminish yours. you're two different people on two different paths. in a perfect situations humans relish and celebrate success together. then they comfort each other in shortcoming and soften the blows of disappointment.

Does your family know about how you feel? Family can be a great ally. Humility is a great usher of peace.