Van Dwelling/Alternative living/ Advice?

Discussion in 'Camping/Outdoor Living' started by Gsislander, Aug 12, 2011.

  1. Gsislander

    Gsislander Member

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    Maybe some of you fine folks here can give me some advice.

    I live in BC, on Vancouver Island.

    I have been dreaming of living in a Van for the last two years. The only problem is that I am with a woman that I love VERY much but, she has NO INTEREST and wouldnt be able to do it due to physical issues.

    I lived in a van for 4 months awhile ago and really enjoyed it a lot. I am in the process of looking for an old van to redo into something suitable. I know a lot of good places to park/camp for free in and around the area that I live it.

    So what I am wondering is what would any of you folks do?

    I know this is something I will have to decide for myself, but I am curious....
     
  2. OneOfTheDifference

    OneOfTheDifference Member

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    I am just curious, why do you desire to live in a van? Is it for financial reasons, or do you think you would just dig it? Here in America in the very heavily populated states, it is difficult to get away with living in a vehicle. I say "get away with it" because if the cops find you sleeping in a vehicle, they are inclined to really hassle you and tell you to move along or worse. Occasionally a cop will actually serve and protect - I know this because after my husband died, I was reduced to living in my car for a few months, and I had a couple encounters with cops. One actually took me down to the cop station and gave me a voucher for a one-night stay at a local hotel; but that guy was the exception to the rule, as it were, Guess it's different in VC. Regarding your dilemma with the girl friend, what sort of health issues are we talking about here? Are you sure it's a bonafide health issue, or does she just not want to live in a van? Usually folks live in a vehicle 'cause they have to; not 'cause they want to. What did you like about living in a van? In closure, my suggestion to you is to make two lists: title them "Pros" and "Cons". On the Pros list, write down all the advantages of you living in a van. On the Cons, the disadvantages (include not having the Girlfriend with you on the "Con" list). Do this before you go to bed, then you should have your answer the next morning or the days following it. If the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, do it. Also, if you do decide to do it, it doesn't mean you and the girlfriend have to break up - sometimes absence makes the heart grow fonder, and she'll decide to move into the van with you because she's found she misses your presence!
     
  3. skycanvas

    skycanvas Member

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    [​IMG]

    I was looking for some listings on viability in particular cities but coming back to my old hip forums site I guess things have not progressed that far across the board. Also, I know you all are talking about Vancouver, Canada, I assume...

    But, I started van dwelling in the US 6 years ago as a burnt out college Art/computer teacher. This was mainly to travel to an area of the country with more scenery (I was stuck in TX). So I hit the road for Washington State & a friend's house until his wife planned out my ultimate life for me & I left for 'the road'. As a career artist, the expense of living where it's happening usually is the most prohibitive issue. In fact living on an artist's take is also.

    To all: I've survived in 30 countries as an AngloAmerican, I think to myself why should it be so hard in a country so populated by immigrants should this be an issue. Cops truly know this. I've heard them apologetically say, "This isn't such a big crime, but the Chief just wanted us to write a bunch of tickets tonight." This was in places where it is rampant. Mind you, if you camp in front of a mansion with a broke down van, you will not last 5 minutes. It's all a matter of wisdom & blending in with the vehicle you have. I've seen French Canadians (Who else?) camp with impunity in front of local Hotels in a VW Van for weeks until told to move. They were young & foreigners & it was sort of entertaining. But location is key, not balls.

    I would state some places are going strong with van populations & other places are absolutely livid that you would attempt it. Ie.: I wouldn't try it in Beverly Hills. So it hasn't caught on unilaterally, but as the economy goes further down the toilet I'm sure it will grow to the proportions of the jobless wandering from town to town during the Great Depression. (But they were shunned). Tickets for 'illegal camping' are the norm in places where seeing travelers try it often run about $80.

    People need to be smart with how big, obvious, tacky or legal their rig is. Big is Bad in places where beach front properties are valued in the millions. You're blocking someone's view.

    MY AD HOC RULES THAT COME TO MIND:

    1) Make sure your vehicle is legal with all permits, smog, license, registration, etc. or you could lose it.
    2) Make sure you are parked in a legal parking place read/mind the signs.
    3) NO more than 72 hours—the unwritten & typically unposted law.
    4) Pick a neighborhood where you BLEND & do not stick out like a sore thumb.
    5) Quiet! - NO Noise, Music, Barking Dogs, Arguing, etc. You'll be quiet if cops knock but few dogs will.
    6) Lights off after dark. Lights will give you away.
    7) Stay Indoors - No in-and-out tweaker-like activities. In for the night.
    8) Movement will give you away, so go to sleep & be thankful you're not sleeping on the ground.
    9) Port-a-potties & urine bottles only. Never pee outside. Empty those in a public toilet & NOT outdoors. It makes their street smell like Piss Alley. They will run you out after a ticket for illegal dumping (or) public exposure ($800) & becoming a registered sex offender). Goes double for holding tanks.
    10) No Visitors - It makes it look like you are selling drugs. Also makes it easy for thieves to come around. The less people who know you are there the better for everyone.

    I'm sure I can think of other things but on the fly those are the Ten that come to mind after Six continuous years & still doing it. But if even if you keep all these, remember: IF YOU CAN BE SEEN you will most certainly be ticketed. So cover up your windows, etc. If a cop can shine a light on you, you can't very well deny you are in there, or if they saw you get inside & are watching. If not, and they are being paid well by their town they can choose to ignore what they cannot see & all the paperwork involved & drive on. There are some lawsuits pending & liberal backlash in favor of the poor & homeless, but mostly in big cities. Or they can shake you down & have you empty out your car if you choose a poor spot especially in the wake of 911 & all the resulting wave of paranoid fascism. But that's merely a worst case scenario: Personally, I always say my goodnight prayers & have never been ticketed to date, but got one warning while humping my girlfriend cause they saw her park behind me; twice flashlights with no intrusion (including last night); once announced 'cops' but did nothing. Once I was threatened by a vigilante tweaker for parking by his house cause my van looked like someone's who owed him money. Oh, yeah, once two bike cops pulled me over as soon as I parked in a high drug/prostitution area, searched, found nothing & told not to park there, so watch out for parking in high crime areas.

    Not a Bad Score so Far. Happy Van Dwelling ;)
     
  4. skycanvas

    skycanvas Member

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    If you want to reciprocate some effort for my compressing my stoner-consciousness into this sort of cohesive advice to help us all out, I'd wish to see results of Van Camping (like the logo?) successes, failures, attitudes & results from camping in Cities Nationwide & Worldwide from any experiences you have had. I could compile a list after some time & blog it somewhere.

    Try to include approximate dates as things change & roughly what kind of rig you were parked in. Also what part of which town is a big help as some places they leave you alone & others totally not in the very same city.

    —Thanks & get loaded. Not while driving, Dude.
     
  5. skywatcher

    skywatcher Guest

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    Very good advice. I enjoyed my "mobile" time in life had a LOT of fun. I like your list....pretty precise. I had a good time in federal forest lands also, where you can get a free 2 week permit.
     
  6. skycanvas

    skycanvas Member

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    I suppose freedom to move around easily. Life is short & troubled by 2-year leases & mortgages & deposits. Anything the enemy of free-living can do to slow you down & load on the baggage. I guess after the years of necessary servitude one finally gets wise to these traps & wants to make a go of it. But, truly, it is not the be-all & end-all. I feel I have a method in my madness in being an outdoor artist, traveling around seeing nature & meeting people. But I guess for some people it is the living, Rainbow types & Dead-heads, gypsies & nomads.

    "Life seems long on the short end, but short on the long end. Live like each day might be the last & save on regret." —Me
     
  7. skycanvas

    skycanvas Member

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    Something that just came to mind as good advice. (After 7-1/2 years steady on the road): Towns Differ Vastly in their treatment of Road Dwellers. Pismo Beach CA, is the one I heard from somebody is an automatic $500 fine for trying to overnight. Like I said, check the signs. They will usually be very specific if they are wary of people doing this & all up & down the tourist trails on any coast, the Hoteliers are proactive because people just think they can pull up without paying the freaking $100-$200 for the night.

    The less touristy the town IS the better chance you have of getting away with it. Also the less trendy & there is a balance of more important crime the cops are dealing with (versus you getting killed by gangs).

    Some towns have so many homeless the police are jaded & tired of dealing with it & only make quarterly sweeps. Other places have some extreme enforcement assh0l6 who specializes in this sort of thing —hassling overnighters. You just have to live & learn & don't go where it's obvious you are the only one & uninvited.

    And don't act like you can move in. People pay big bucks for their McMansions & don't like you parking your $500 homeless special that needs a new muffler right in their street view. They'll call the cops on you. Mainly because you are NOT THE FIRST to try it. You are in a long parade of people, so don't make it obvious you are taking the easy road or advantage of them...

    Also, the later you arrive & the earlier you leave the better odds you have. Just don't hang around all day like you are a flower child in golden gate park in 1968 because it's 2013 which is more like 1984. :bobby:

    STEALTH IS WEALTH!
     
  8. crazytalk

    crazytalk Member

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    Great input skycanvas. Can you give some pointers for places that you like to stay that would be considered generic most anywhere. Forest lands are good, but what about in towns. Say Wal-Mart parking lots, churches, etc. Not saying that any of these are good, just examples. I've heard that dressing your van up like a legitimate business rig goes a long way.
     
  9. skycanvas

    skycanvas Member

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    Sam Walmart's Gesture of good will is often ignored & besides, he's not around to enforce it. The late Sam Walmart evidently had a heart of gold for weary travelers & publicly allowed Wally Worlds everywhere to let the wandering masses park their RV's in his parking lots each night. (They would shop there plus many of their lots are empty then.) But if you check, this only applies to certain ones as so many US cities (who don't have a heart at all) as well as successive managers have undermined this display of cordiality to outsiders due to public scrutiny or the fear of opinion.

    Still, you do see a lot of 'those people' hanging around them during the day; but as night falls in the tropics you will also see the cops buzzing around giving every one the 'ifyousomuchas' eyeball, especially if your rig looks like you really, actually do not have the money to stay in a hotel & your $250,000 motorhome is certainly just for vacations. Or in California & snooty towns where cops follow their own local city civil (Wiki: incivility or uncivilized? lol) as well as State codes before Constitutionality (The founding Fathers wishes) or Sam's (The founding father of Walmart's wishes) ever come into question. How many living people even care what a dead person's wish is nowadays? How much of a damn did the European entrepreneurs give about the Indians before they promised them reservations & pushed them across the desert & into the sea? On a scale of 1-10? You can expect just about any kind of welcome, so pick your friends not your nose.

    But you'd be surprised how if you look half-way stealth how many little strip mall parking lots with a variety of stores & no signs posted guarded by a sleepy-eyed donut munching security guard driving around in their toyota trucks will kind of ignore you if they have overnight deliveries, employees working nights, etc. Sometimes they appreciate the buzz of the company if you show you're not a threat. Working nights are long frigid hours. It depends. Dumpster diving can be ignored or then again if you hit the Albertsons in Venice Beach by the Recycle on Lincoln, that dude takes a special relish in seeing their throwaways rot & you go hungry. It's a personal thing with some of these weenie wannabe's..

    I've done Wally's a few times in the less hoity-toity towns but it's no license & Barney Fife can run you out if you picked the wrong ones as may still be posted in the Yellow Pages (What's that Dad?) But as night falls on the busy metropolis where the greeting on the door says: "Give Us your Tired, Your Hungry, Your weary Masses waiting to be Free—like we need more people, ...sarc sarc …", you feel so paranoid that you typically —unless exceeding ballsy will drive away to a lower profile street, dimly lit street where nobody fears you.

    Go where you see people already chronic & getting away with it & just have the classier act. I've many times heard the cops bust the guy right next to me & pass over my rig & slept to hear the story from the Dude the next day. I've only had one little bitch out everybody in the lot on one occasion.

    Wally works it in the less hoity-toity towns but it's no carte blanche unless the Smug Index of the town is a low number & security is cool about your looks.

    If you need to do anything resembling being homeless anywhere: 1) DO IT LATE 2) GET OUT EARLY & 3) DON'T GET OUT OF THE DAMN CAR. You probably do not have a right to be there if you push it in their faces. As with anyplace, those 3 rules greatly increase your chances of a good night's sleep along with picking a neighborhood where you are not suspected of illegal activities; don't stick out like a sore thumb & well…as with your mention of looking like a business vehicle, —where you blend into the background. (Oh, with the van thing, don't look like an FBI stakeout —gangs don't like pests observing their nocturnal iniquities.)

    Let's take a lesson from Mother Nature. Camouflage. The animals that employ it are still alive & the ones who didn't have since become some predator's meal.:bobby::sleeping:
     
  10. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    Skycanvas, I'd add certain highway pull offs. In the Western US, there are good and bad.
    I-25 in Colorado had both, but during certain seasons, it was mostly good. Weirdly, I-35 in Oklahoma was pretty tolerant.
    Utah was mostly cool, away from Moab.
     
  11. skycanvas

    skycanvas Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions, DMama. Yes, I strongly agree a rest area (pull-off?) is the best place to overnight. Again, the touristy, high hotel concentration locations make sure none of those are near them to compete for their business. And there are more rest stops —I guess that's what you meant by pull-off's —In the cheap & plentiful land States & who-cares if you go 100 miles an hour cause everything is so damned far away, wide open spaces; but so few in places like coastal highways. You have to get way out of town.

    Sometimes, in a new area, I would drive 30 miles out to one & back into town the next day just because I knew it was a safe, sure place. You can't stay there day after day, but again, the 'come late, leave early' rule applies. There are crews of people that tend those places, so you are apt to get ratted out if you camp too long. But trucks are in & out of them all the time. It's the law of physics: Constant Change is the Key Constant. In other words, move on.

    I got the biggest hassles when I didn't move often, when I stayed too long, planted flowers outside my door, so to speak. Not even from law enforcement or neighborhood watchers but from homeless wing-nuts who might consider you prey. "Buddy you got a light?" (The worst answer to give is 'I don't smoke' because it's giving the guy an open mic) You have to realize that no matter whether you descended from the gods or your parents are rich that you are now living at the bottom of the food chain & easy to be picked off for your being alone, approachable & accessible. So you have to put on the hard shell like a bivalve until you know what they are up to. You are a target.

    The more I'd drive around an area the more stealth places I'd see I could hide the next night. But the first night anywhere sucks. Also, never park anywhere there are no cars parked even if there are no signs. The easiest place to hide a pebble is among pebbles, right? If cops see lots of cars parked there for various reasons & it's within the signage, they won't bother you.:bobby:
     
  12. GardenGuy

    GardenGuy Senior Member

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    If you are able to afford KOA, state parks, national forest campgrounds, you have usually got a good place to bed down for the night. Nobody will care that you don't sleep in a tent. The space is yours for the nights you rent it. How about hostels? If you join AYH, you've got some cheap sleeps too.

    Trucker friend sleeps free every night. But when he tries new spots, sometimes the hookers won't leave him alone. You eventually learn where you can get a good night's sleep.
     
  13. skycanvas

    skycanvas Member

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    Some vehicles blend in easier than others; some don't blend in at all. The larger the rig the harder it is to hide it. Less is more. And you have to keep moving. People get suspicious & resentful when you move in on their neighborhood. Hide a pebble amongst pebbles. Touristy spots are loaded with hotels. They will turn you in faster than anyone because to camp in front of somebody's house is merely an annoyance; but to camp in front of a hotel is stealing their business. Go where they don't care. Don't expect to get away with it in Beverly Hills. Remote places typically have lots of room & unless you are up to something illegal, they will leave you alone. For instance, in most residential midwestern areas where there is plenty of parking & space; where people have garages & driveways; there are no street parking restriction signs. But when you get down to the concentrated environment of Coastal tourist towns or places like San Francisco or Seattle; residents covet their street parking spaces. Typically people with no driveways or garages rely on those. And they will fight for them. Out in the wild blue yonder nobody gives two shits where or how long you park unless you are up to no good. Look for other vehicles who are doing what you are doing successfully & you can pretty much figure you can get away with it. That's why over time even those get rousted; because the good citizenry see someone who is chronically there is the bad apple attracting all the others. Again, the biggest lie they use is illegal dumping, so don't be guilty of it. But as far as I'm concerned anyone who makes this their lifestyle & has been at it for some time is hip to that & will do anything but dump. It's an urban legend reinforced by the image of Randy Quaid emptying his RV holding tank into Chevy Chase's storm sewer in Christmas Vacation. Thanks National Lampoon. Oh, well, most of the time Americans don't know the difference between reality & imagination, so you can expect these legends to be around forever along with the old story of the Gypsies stealing babies. It gives them more reason to chase you out of town. I just recall the lyric from that song, 'Jesus on the highway was a lone hobo' & figure I'm in the best company of all.

    :sleeping:
     
  14. skycanvas

    skycanvas Member

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  15. GardenGuy

    GardenGuy Senior Member

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    Try these links:
    http://www.freecampgrounds.com
    http://www.overnightrvparking.com/
    http://www.boondockerswelcome.com/
    http://www.gypsyjournal.net/free_campgrounds.htm
    http://www.allstays.com/c/wal-mart-locations.htm
    http://www.allstays.com/c/truck-stop-locations.htm
    Camping World allows free RV parking on their lots
    Ask managers at supermarkets and casinos about overnight stays.
    Flying J and Travel America truck stops often have designated RV areas (preferable to sleeping next to an idling group of trucks all night)

    Of course with all this dry camping, your vehicle will eventually need to take a dump:
    http://www.rvdumps.com/dumpstations/

    Be careful about lonesome highway rest stops, but some rest stops have security and other overnighters, so use your own judgement.

    Ask truckers! Their experience is recent and extensive.
     
  16. skycanvas

    skycanvas Member

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    Yes, that list opens up a whole other dimension to it, 'places that let you'. Of course the truck stop/casino is always good for a nighter, but to find one... In my experience so far which is 8 continuous years it's been a cat-and-mouse game of stealth urban where rv's stick out so people take their chances in vans, mostly. The trouble comes in waves, usually the first night or the citizenry gathers up their complainers at city councils to hoot down the invasive species & pressure the cops to make sweeps. Then it depends on the town & the amount of real crime the cops already have to deal with as to weather they must do something. It also seems to vary coast to coast. I may try the East coast. Florida & others were great with a motorhome because you could eat at a restaurant & go out to the rv & have a nap.

    I like highway rest stops. Way safer than say having almost no gas & pulling over on the PCH somewhere outside of Laguna & making it.

    Some of the worse nights I've spent barely sleeping because every light brought 3 lanes of hellbent traffic going 50 mph, dusting you with exhaust & making your rig wag, waking you up wondering when on of those sleepy commuters was going to clip you.
     
  17. Driftwood Gypsy

    Driftwood Gypsy Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    i've lived a few months in a Voltswagon Vanagon Westfalia 1985. campsites are fun, i always get homesick when i smell bonfires. it was lovely sleeping with night sounds (which i now get on the boat) and rewarding going out for firewood. i love smores and ramen. living out of a van is liberating, life is somewhat of a roadtrip.
     
  18. GardenGuy

    GardenGuy Senior Member

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    My grandma used to chide me, saying, "Remember the days when everything you owned would fit in the trunk of a car and you could get on the road like a free bird?"
    Ouch! That still stings when I think of then vs. now.
    She was very Zen and was always after me to simplify.

    But public storage sheds can be pretty warm dry places to stash stuff you don't want to part with but don't want to drive with.

    Time to get a copy of Walden from the Library.
    Love his thoughts on simplicity!
    Henry David Thoreau is still ahead of his time!
     

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