Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Separation of church and state?


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 groovecookie

groovecookie

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 536 posts
  • LocationTacoma

Posted January 27 2011 - 03:05 PM

Does anyone have any idea why public nudity and indecent exposure laws are not considered separation of church and state issues?

Maybe they are in some circles, but when I do a google search with "separation of church and state", nothing comes up regarding nudity.

I really don't understand that because I though the whole idea of it was keeping religious laws restricted to religious institutions.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Why aren't we naked yet?

#2 sunfighter

sunfighter

    Hip Forums Supporter

  •  Supporters
  • 3,581 posts
  • LocationHub of the Universe

Posted January 27 2011 - 03:47 PM

This is widely misunderstood. The entirety of the idea is contained in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...


So, for instance, if the government orders a nativity scene to be removed from public property at Christmas, that is unconstitutional since it had nothing to do with any law that establishes religion and further, it prohibits the free exercise of religion.

On the other hand, if the government passes a law against nudity, that is also unconstitutional if you consider the whole idea to be an establishment of a religious idea. The problem is that the courts haven't usually looked at it that way.

#3 groovecookie

groovecookie

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 536 posts
  • LocationTacoma

Posted January 27 2011 - 07:22 PM

That's what my feeling was. I guess I was thinking maybe there was some legal loophole justification for such laws that use some bizarre rationale regarding public health or sanitation or some such.

I think you almost have to be an atheist to really appreciate what an outrage it is that people who don't believe in a god should be forced to practice body shame in public.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Why aren't we naked yet?

#4 nldn

nldn

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • 1,645 posts

Posted April 05 2011 - 12:19 PM

The two are unrelated. There are plenty of Christians who are happy to swim or sunbathe naked such as in Germany and see no connection at all.

#5 Logan 5

Logan 5

    Confessed gynephile

  • Senior Member
  • 2,210 posts
  • LocationUtah

Posted April 05 2011 - 11:02 PM

Does anyone have any idea why public nudity and indecent exposure laws are not considered separation of church and state issues?

Maybe they are in some circles, but when I do a google search with "separation of church and state", nothing comes up regarding nudity.

I really don't understand that because I though the whole idea of it was keeping religious laws restricted to religious institutions.


How does this become a separation of church from state issue to begin with? If you wanna run around your home naked, do it. If the pigs don't like it, fuck'em. Your home & your right.

“The most effective way to restrict democracy is to transfer decision-making from the public arena to unaccountable institutions: kings and princes, priestly castes, military juntas, party dictatorships, or modern corporations.” – Noam Chomski, May 1998

 

We are told to remember the idea, not the man, because a man can fail.  He can be caught.  He can be killed and forgotten.

But four hundred years later an idea can still change the world.


"...You can't build a dream, without a plan...." -- Jefferson Starship ("It's Not Over", "No Protection" Album, 1987)


#6 groovecookie

groovecookie

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 536 posts
  • LocationTacoma

Posted April 06 2011 - 09:47 AM

Ok, let me spell it out.. (and I'm talking strictly about America and other countries that don't allow public nudity)..if you walk out on the street naked or go to a public beach to take off your clothes, there is a good chance you will be arrested.

Why? Because whatever country you are in that doesn't allow public nudity is dominated by some religion that prohibits nudity. Why else would it be illegal?



I
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Why aren't we naked yet?

#7 Amontillado

Amontillado

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 553 posts
  • LocationNew England

Posted April 06 2011 - 10:32 PM

No no, it's capitalism, man.

Imagine all the cash that's made by people who make clothes and sell clothes. Think they'll let anyone go around without buying their stuff? Forget this religion business, it's all about getting your money.
How many times do I have to tell you kids to quit perning in that gyre?

#8 Logan 5

Logan 5

    Confessed gynephile

  • Senior Member
  • 2,210 posts
  • LocationUtah

Posted April 07 2011 - 12:11 AM

Dude, they are trying to be "morality police". Failing to recognize that before they start telling you and I what is right or wrong, they must first recognize it in themselves, first, and strive to change that. But they won't.

“The most effective way to restrict democracy is to transfer decision-making from the public arena to unaccountable institutions: kings and princes, priestly castes, military juntas, party dictatorships, or modern corporations.” – Noam Chomski, May 1998

 

We are told to remember the idea, not the man, because a man can fail.  He can be caught.  He can be killed and forgotten.

But four hundred years later an idea can still change the world.


"...You can't build a dream, without a plan...." -- Jefferson Starship ("It's Not Over", "No Protection" Album, 1987)


#9 groovecookie

groovecookie

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 536 posts
  • LocationTacoma

Posted April 07 2011 - 10:55 AM

Does anyone know of any place online I can get info on the history of nudist activism and any cases that have gone to court? I'd like to educate myself on all the different things that have been tried and what happened as a result.

I want to be an activist myself, but I want to be an effective activist who has done his homework on the subject.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Why aren't we naked yet?

#10 ganesha1967

ganesha1967

    barefoot bellybearer

  • Members
  • 1,198 posts

Posted April 07 2011 - 11:39 AM

Well, how about these...?

http://naturistaction.org/index.html
http://www.conforman...ed_protest.html
http://www.nakedprotesters.com/
http://www.barewitness.org/
http://usanudist.com/blog/?p=282
http://www.naktiv.net/activism.html

Wiggling bare toes,

~*Ganesha*~
http://www.hipforums...pictureid=70423"Life is chaos, chaos is life! Control is an illusion!"
- Trance Gemini

#11 Logan 5

Logan 5

    Confessed gynephile

  • Senior Member
  • 2,210 posts
  • LocationUtah

Posted April 07 2011 - 04:18 PM

Find Law and Lexis Nexis has some good stuff on it. You just have to spend the time and hunt around.

(slapping my own naked butt....)

“The most effective way to restrict democracy is to transfer decision-making from the public arena to unaccountable institutions: kings and princes, priestly castes, military juntas, party dictatorships, or modern corporations.” – Noam Chomski, May 1998

 

We are told to remember the idea, not the man, because a man can fail.  He can be caught.  He can be killed and forgotten.

But four hundred years later an idea can still change the world.


"...You can't build a dream, without a plan...." -- Jefferson Starship ("It's Not Over", "No Protection" Album, 1987)


#12 groovecookie

groovecookie

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 536 posts
  • LocationTacoma

Posted April 07 2011 - 09:34 PM

Thanks, y'all. I'll check it out.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Why aren't we naked yet?