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#31 rambleON

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Posted November 22 2011 - 11:21 AM

neo do you compose or make music ? I'd be interested in more lessons. post more

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#32 Celtic Hippie

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Posted November 22 2011 - 04:06 PM

I'm jumping on too! Thanks!
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#33 The Imaginary Being

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Posted November 22 2011 - 04:30 PM

yeah scales are vital to both music theory and composition. its the whole thing pretty much!

items of study can include:
-how to read music (if you don't already know)
-time signatures (if you don't already know)
-key signatures
-all 7 major scales
-all minor scales (theres 7 too right?)
-the difference between them and how it affects composition. (this relies on some self-educating)
-chords; major, minor, augmented, etc.
-chord progression
-articulation. staccato, legato, slur, etc.


with the seven scales and the knowledge of application to alter key

one needs not know too much more to write a good song.

it becomes then a case of joining the dots when it comes to what notes are played where.

but once you have finally grasped the theory - they teach you pitch axis

and you realise you could play pretty anything after all :frown:

#34 funktastic

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Posted November 23 2011 - 12:43 PM

but once you have finally grasped the theory - they teach you pitch axis

and you realise you could play pretty anything after all :frown:


ive read about Satriani's pitch axis theory ... gotta be honest with you... unneeded...

when your playing in a key, its not like your trapped in it... you can always go outside with notes out of the scale to add dissonance and tension ... which gives a nice and tasty feel

(the classic) 'scales' only guide which notes to play,

i guess that it was Frank Zappa that said something like

''notes out of scale are like villains on music, and if you play all straight and beautifully in the scale, to me its like watching a movie with only good guys, no villains, and that is a boring movie''

and remember that all the modes only apply to classic western music theory, which in my view, is quite untasty ...

...i really like those exotic scales, not because theyre exotic, but because they have a wider range of intervals than classic modes, which has a nice feel...

you see all the modes only have either a minor or a major sceond, now you take for example the minor blues scale (a quite 'unclassic' scale)...

C D# F F# G A# C

it goes up with a minor third, then a major second, then two minor seconds and another minor third... if you ever have the chance jam a little with it and you'll see the awesome sound it has

so what i meant here was... study all classical modes? sure!
but dont stick to them, open your mind, learn different scales, play out of key and use all the 12 notes!

if you go all classic the only things youll be able to play is classical music and neoclassical shred guitar ...

if you wanna a funky, a bluesy or simply a different feel to your music ... remember classical music theory barely applies to these
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#35 zombiewolf

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Posted November 23 2011 - 02:55 PM

Good stuff funktastic, (anyone who quotes Zappa is 'allreet' in my book.)

Just remember folks, you don't have to drink the ocean just to swim in it.

All music theory is concieved in retrospect anyway...

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#36 bluegypsyrain

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Posted March 12 2012 - 11:42 AM

Absolutely interested in music theory (or anything else to do with music, for that matter)!

#37 tutu96

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Posted August 10 2012 - 07:07 AM

Please!

#38 syndrella

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Posted October 15 2012 - 09:45 PM

I will like to learn music theory .I would certainly be interested in that!

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#39 erizoe

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Posted January 09 2013 - 02:58 PM

"] Check this out for a good quick lesson
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#40 DrummingJoey

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Posted January 09 2013 - 03:20 PM

Pitch axis seems to be just the same as chord scales. When I took jazz theory I, we just called it modes.
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#41 erizoe

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Posted January 09 2013 - 05:29 PM

I don't know pitch axis... what is it? i know modes...
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#42 ganjabomber

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Posted January 11 2013 - 04:59 PM

i'd like to know your thoughts on implementing the circle of fifths into your composition and playing and specific examples of it. basically i want to know more about how to systematically produce of chord progressions that aren't too drastically changing and not too smooth either. I would be interested in an advanced theory class.
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#43 DrummingJoey

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Posted January 11 2013 - 06:55 PM

A really easy way to apply the circle of fifths is by adding ii-V-I progressions into your playing. Whenever you have a seventh or just a major chord going to a chord a perfect fourth above, add before it the minor chord a fourth below.

Ex. when a song plays like this

E7 Amaj7

you can add b minor to it:

bmin7 E7 Amaj7

and then you add more interest to it. You can find lots of examples of this listening to jazz standards. Try Recorda-me by Joe Henderson for example.

Amin69.........---................---..........---
Cmin69.........---................---..........Cmin7 F7
Bbmaj7.........Bbmin7 Eb7 Abmaj7....Abmin7 Db7
Gbmaj7.........Gmin7..C7...Fmaj7.......E7

There is a ii-V-I in Bb, followed by the same in Ab, then in Gb, then F. That is a really good way to get around the circle of fifths. It's also a good piano exercise to do ii-V-I's if you are studying piano.
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#44 ganjabomber

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Posted January 11 2013 - 09:56 PM

A really easy way to apply the circle of fifths is by adding ii-V-I progressions into your playing. Whenever you have a seventh or just a major chord going to a chord a perfect fourth above, add before it the minor chord a fourth below.

Ex. when a song plays like this

E7 Amaj7

you can add b minor to it:

bmin7 E7 Amaj7


that sounds nice but i don't know how you figured that out using the circle of fifths.. could you explain?
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#45 DrummingJoey

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Posted January 12 2013 - 12:06 AM

Going backwards on the circle of fifths diatonically gives you a harmonic progression. For example, if you are in C and you go down a diatonic fourth, you get G major. If you go down another fourth from G major, you get D minor. Reverse that, and you have Dmin-G-C, or in roman numerals ii-V-I, which is a very common cadence and is used a ton in music. Do you know roman numeral analysis?
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#46 ganjabomber

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Posted January 12 2013 - 07:28 PM

Yea, i know roman numeral analysis. I still dont get how what you're talking about uses the circle though. Seems like you're just picking random parts of the circle instead of following a particular order. Like when you say if you move another 4th along the circle you get a Dmin when the next step in the circle is a D major.

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Starting from Cmaj on the top and moving down a perfect 4th gives you Gmaj ten another perfect 4th down gives you a Dmaj, right?
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#47 DrummingJoey

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Posted January 12 2013 - 07:53 PM

If you are going chromatically yes, but if you did the same thing but only using notes from C major in the chords you get a D minor instead of major. Then you are making the progression diatonic in the key of C, implying a tonality of C major.
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#48 ganjabomber

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Posted January 12 2013 - 09:29 PM

Ooooooooh ok, that makes more sense. so are you going clockwise around the outer circle in that diagram i posted and just letting the key decide weather a chord is major or minor? What other chords can you add? How else can you use the circle to come up with chord progressions? That one progression seems kinda limiting.. i want to learn how to make many chord progressions that are logically sound.. Is there anything you could suggest i read?
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#49 ganjabomber

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Posted January 16 2013 - 10:30 AM

Bump for wanting to know how to logically transition modes, chords and scales.
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#50 DrummingJoey

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Posted January 16 2013 - 01:28 PM

Sorry I was really high and couldn't remember how to answer...High now but will try to answer...Get a book like Tonal Harmony by Kostka/Payne. That's the one I learned out of. Try to get somebody who has a lot of experience. I could answer your questions but a lot of it is done better in person.
About the ii-V, you can do a lot with it by applying it to modulations. The ii-V-I progression can be used for sudden and prepared modulations. You can also take that and go further back in the key, cycling through the circle of fifths (ex.IV-vii*-iii-vi-ii-V-I) to delay resolution of the tonic.
Logical transitioning of chords is usually by ascending fourths/descending fifths. That is where the circle of fifths comes in. That is not to say that you can't move chords other ways, but those are harder to pull off because they require an intimate understanding of how the chords interact.
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#51 ganjabomber

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Posted January 16 2013 - 07:39 PM

thanks, ill definitely play around with that idea.
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