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DMT's effects on the developing brain


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#1 jmoore714

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Posted December 12 2010 - 07:21 PM

A friend of mine told me that dmt would not be healthy for me because my brain is still developing (it doesn't finish until mid 20's). He also told me that when dmt is taken recreationally it is taken in much higher doses than when it is naturally produced by the brain and that it can be harmful for that reason. I was wondering if there was any validity in his claims? Does anyone know how much DMT our body naturally produces, especially in REM sleep and near-death experiences. I have been searching on the internet for a while and i haven't been able to find anything. Thanks in advance!

#2 T Swank88

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Posted December 13 2010 - 09:14 AM

yea same im wondering what effects there are of DMT. like coke and heroin have bad effects but lsd and marijuana dont have physical harm effects. Im just wondering if theres any physical harm with DMT

#3 Mr.Writer

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Posted December 13 2010 - 10:18 AM

there is not.

responsible use won't hurt your brain, and won't affect your brain's development. how old are you jmoore?

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#4 Spicey Cat

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Posted December 13 2010 - 10:49 AM

I don't know anything about DMT use and brain development but I think at least a modicum of caution is in order. Your brain is completely done with development at about 25 years of age. Of course, we can continue to make new (dendritic) connections all the way until the moment of our death.

Now, it is important to remember, that although DMT is an endogenous human neurotransmitter, and that it has been found on neural sheaths, it is not present (e.g. squirting from the pineal gland) in large quantities in the brain. At least this has not been proven. I understand there are some new research papers out that she there are decent levels of DMT concentrations in various systems and organs in the human body.

Here's the point: We don't really know and more research needs to be done.

How much DMT might the body produce endogenously, especially in moments of crisis? Who knows? That has not been determined or proven yet. But, it is a safe assumption that by smoking DMT we are doing something rather un-natural and are radically increasing the level of DMT in our bodies. Fortunately, our bodies have evolved something called Monoamine Oxidase, which breaks DMT down in our bodies very, very quickly. So quickly, that you cannot even get off on an oral dose of DMT without taking a Monamine Oxidase Inhibitor (MAOI) first.

Having written all of the above, I would like to say that regarding a developed, adult brain, DMT use is not going to hurt or damage it. The worst case scenario I could think of would be someone in extremely poor health taking it and suffering problems due to a spike in blood pressure. That would not be the DMT directly causing the problem, though it would have been the precursor to the cause.

I use DMT heavily relative to most other people. Relative to how I used to use it, I can no longer say I am a heavy DMT user. Has it changed me? Definately. Has it changed the physical structure of my brain? I admit the possibility, but frankly, the more I become used to DMT use, the further I move in time from my amazing, mystical experience, the more I am thinking that it hasn't touched the physical structure or functioning of my brain at all. No, not the brain. But, yes, the mind.
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MAPS Bulletin Vol. XX, No. 1, pg. 2

#5 jmoore714

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Posted December 13 2010 - 02:51 PM

yea same im wondering what effects there are of DMT. like coke and heroin have bad effects but lsd and marijuana dont have physical harm effects. Im just wondering if theres any physical harm with DMT


I believe both lsd and marijuana can effect the developing brain. I smoke weed fairly heavily everyday, i don't think its caused me any physical damage but i do think it could be effecting my brain developement. I'm not worried about it though because im sure its not going to result in anything serious and i know people who have smoke since they were kids and they are fine. But im guessing if the brain is in an altered state of mine for most of its development it will develop differently.

#6 jmoore714

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Posted December 13 2010 - 03:09 PM

there is not.

responsible use won't hurt your brain, and won't affect your brain's development. how old are you jmoore?


Can you cite your sources? And i am 18.

#7 jmoore714

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Posted December 13 2010 - 03:12 PM

Also how does DMT change you? Anything besides ego death? Do others notice the change in you?

#8 Spicey Cat

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Posted December 13 2010 - 04:14 PM

Many others noticed the changes in me. I will list a few. These are for me personally. I cannot speak for anyone else:

I am no longer an atheist
I am a happier person
I feel less burned out and more able to accept and love the life and reality I have
I am more generally synaesthetic, in particular whenever I take any psychedelic
I have a much greater appreciation for and understanding of art & religion
I am less misanthropic and love people and humanity more.
I understand down to the fibers of my soul what a pure and delightful blessing each and every moment of each and every day is.

I no longer think I need to try to save the world. I, instead make personal interventions aimed at lessening suffering.

I have reached out more to my family - made more connections.

I have made a lot of new (DMT) friends - many of them are artists & musicians.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

"But even if nothing lasts and everything is lost, there is still the intrinsic value of the moment. The present moment, ultimately, is more than enough, a gift of grace and unfathomable value, which our friend and lover death paints in stark relief."

-Rick Doblin, Ph.D. MAPS President
MAPS Bulletin Vol. XX, No. 1, pg. 2

#9 lillallyloukins

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Posted December 13 2010 - 04:19 PM

I believe both lsd and marijuana can effect the developing brain. I smoke weed fairly heavily everyday, i don't think its caused me any physical damage but i do think it could be effecting my brain developement. I'm not worried about it though because im sure its not going to result in anything serious and i know people who have smoke since they were kids and they are fine. But im guessing if the brain is in an altered state of mine for most of its development it will develop differently.


i don't have any proof other than experience... i smoked weed heavy for 20 years, and i would echo Spicey Cat in that it does affect development in a "mind" sense... i think you can see the world from a different perspective, because you get insights... not saying that you don't get insights if you don't smoke, but you have more space in a sense... to sit back and chill and drift... so things come up... ofcourse, it can make you paranoid and anxious.... if it does that, best to leave it alone until such a time as it doesn't, if ever... depends where your head is at... good opportunity to wonder why your head is where it is... i am also quite forgetful, but i usually find that the things i forget are not anywhere near as important as the things that i don't forget, unless i choose to forget something ofcourse...

although i am sure weed affects the brain in a physical sense on a chemical level, and over years possibly a physical level, (i'm no expert in biology, so i am just sharing what i think, all be it subjective) personally, i wouldn't say it has physically "deformed" my brain in any way... infact, i'd go as far as to say that it saved my fucking life :2thumbsup:

besides, we live in a world with so much fragmentation going on around us... pressures particular to our kind of consumerist societies... (especially the recent escalations)... the knock-on effect it has on our relationships with people, family, the outside world, is immeasurable...

for psychological health, i would recommend moderation... relaxes body, but enhances mental clarification...

it's gooood to :chillpill:
:2thumbsup::sifone:

Edited by lillallyloukins, December 13 2010 - 04:39 PM.
oooops... you talking DMT, ima talkin' weed... lol... what was that i was saying about clarity? bwaa ha haaa :)

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#10 Meliai

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Posted December 13 2010 - 05:03 PM

I believe both lsd and marijuana can effect the developing brain. I smoke weed fairly heavily everyday, i don't think its caused me any physical damage but i do think it could be effecting my brain developement. I'm not worried about it though because im sure its not going to result in anything serious and i know people who have smoke since they were kids and they are fine. But im guessing if the brain is in an altered state of mine for most of its development it will develop differently.


I remember in high school I was researching the effects of marijuana on the brain and i came across an article on Erowid about how weed doesn't effect the adult brain at all, except for stretching synapses, except on the developing brain it can effect brain function. I can't really remember any details about it though. Ill try to find the article but that was many many years ago so i dont know if they would still have it posted.

My guess is that all drugs have some effect on the developing brain and should be used by people under 25 with caution and in moderation. edit: drugs should be used by people of all ages with caution and in moderation.

Edited by Meliai, December 13 2010 - 05:05 PM.
duh.

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#11 RooRshack

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Posted December 13 2010 - 10:56 PM

Drugs do change you, as far as your mind goes. It's never bothered me, with the drugs I've chosen to take or the changes they've produced in me. DOB was slightly traumatic because of the situation, and I wasen't myself for a while, though I'd love to try it again, it was also a good time and I don't regret it one bit. DXM and nutmeg (different as their experiances are) both made me appriciate everything more, weed had the same effect but also makes me more sensative to injustices.

as far as your brain, I can see huge dumps of DMT causing changes, of course, but compared to other psychedelics I would tend to think that it would "expand" your brain, as opposed to "change" it in an abnormal way, if that makes sense.

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#12 orison319

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Posted December 13 2010 - 11:13 PM

If you wanna make some DMT..
drink water before you goto bed..
and get up to pee..

in your head, you see the light.
dont open your eyes, if you do it right.
make your way to the hole.
sit your ass down on the bowl.

Think between the dream and mind.
this is dreaming of a different kind.
eyes close shut patterns and swirls.
focus on the 1/2 awake dream world.


Drinking loads of water before you go to sleep is also called the Native American Alarm Clock....


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#13 thedope

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Posted December 13 2010 - 11:37 PM

An alarm clock is like a suppository stuffed up the crack of dawn.

#14 lillallyloukins

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Posted December 14 2010 - 01:53 AM

If you wanna make some DMT..
drink water before you goto bed..
and get up to pee..

in your head, you see the light.
dont open your eyes, if you do it right.
make your way to the hole.
sit your ass down on the bowl.

Think between the dream and mind.
this is dreaming of a different kind.
eyes close shut patterns and swirls.
focus on the 1/2 awake dream world.


Drinking loads of water before you go to sleep is also called the Native American Alarm Clock....


nice :)

also, i do that if i absolutely have to get up in the morning... them Native Americans have natural savvy...
God didn't create the universe... God BECAME the universe...


#15 Popularity

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Posted December 19 2010 - 04:06 AM

ay spicey, do you have any trip reports of your own that you could direct me towards?

btw all the effort you have put into this subforum is remarkable. i appreciate having someone with a vast knowledge on the subject putting truths and experience out there. it's good to have a reliable source of information.

oteyae.gif


#16 The Center

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Posted December 28 2010 - 03:31 AM

If anything I think it benefits the brains development. It can and will change the coarse of development, since every single thought affects the way the brain developes, but I feel that this can be a positive thing. I took DMT combined by salvia at age 17. (I still am 17.) and I find that now I can enter into spiritual states at will. Nothing like an actual trip, but I can alter my conciousness at will. If I want to feel one way, I just have to decide to feel like it. I can make objects morph if I want, but they can be 100% normal if I want. I feel kind of like Neo.

(BTW, only do it if you are ready to die. As in, if someone wants you to jump off a tall building otherwise he kills someone you love, you'd do it in a heartbeat without any fear.)

#17 HumanBeingIntellect

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Posted January 25 2011 - 06:51 PM

is 15 too young to just try it to expand my mind? why or why not? i really want too :sunny:

#18 darkstar~co!

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Posted February 01 2011 - 05:09 AM

I no longer think I need to try to save the world. I, instead make personal interventions aimed at lessening suffering.

I have reached out more to my family - made more connections.


sounds a little like confucianism
where am i and what the fuck am i doing here!?
..........................................................................

SUCKcess
..........................................................................

see you at the next show
..........................................................................

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#19 darkstar~co!

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Posted February 01 2011 - 05:20 AM

one must play their role ^
where am i and what the fuck am i doing here!?
..........................................................................

SUCKcess
..........................................................................

see you at the next show
..........................................................................

:indian_chief:

#20 RooRshack

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Posted February 01 2011 - 05:27 AM

is 15 too young to just try it to expand my mind? why or why not? i really want too :sunny:


Being 15 is pretty trippy on it's own.

I think it's too young for most psychedelics. Search for "brootalhankie" to see why, she's 15 and a good example...

RIP cosmoknot.

 

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#21 Sam_Stoned

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Posted February 01 2011 - 05:49 AM

kind of a dick move to point out particular forumers like that man

#22 Kamran

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Posted February 01 2011 - 05:52 AM

Why do you care? Your mind is always developing and changing.

#23 Sam_Stoned

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Posted February 01 2011 - 06:16 AM

The first time I read that I took it as an insult. I need to stop this cronic stoned posting.

But my theory is it isn't harmful to your development. It just might take it off in a different direction. It can enlighten you or make you go crazy or do nothing substantial oncesoever.

It is up to you to maintain perspective.

#24 guerillabedlam

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Posted February 01 2011 - 07:25 AM

But my theory is it isn't harmful to your development. It just might take it off in a different direction. It can enlighten you or make you go crazy or do nothing substantial oncesoever.

It is up to you to maintain perspective.


After my incident with 5-me0 dmt I'm not sure I agree with this. Kind of like Roorshack's Dob experience it felt like it shocked my system or something
and gaining perspective back was only going to happen with time and unfortunately I had to resort to medication as well. 5-me0 dmt supposedly elicits lasting negative effects more commonly than dmt though, which is interesting.

#25 guerillabedlam

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Posted February 01 2011 - 07:27 AM

Drugs do change you, as far as your mind goes. It's never bothered me, with the drugs I've chosen to take or the changes they've produced in me. DOB was slightly traumatic because of the situation, and I wasen't myself for a while, though I'd love to try it again, it was also a good time and I don't regret it one bit. DXM and nutmeg (different as their experiances are) both made me appriciate everything more, weed had the same effect but also makes me more sensative to injustices.

as far as your brain, I can see huge dumps of DMT causing changes, of course, but compared to other psychedelics I would tend to think that it would "expand" your brain, as opposed to "change" it in an abnormal way, if that makes sense.


Reference to my post

#26 Magical mystery tourguide

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Posted April 13 2011 - 06:30 PM

is 15 too young to just try it to expand my mind? why or why not? i really want too :sunny:


no it is not too young - if you wanna experience it, then by all means go for it; it will just be much different than you expect it will be.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

#27 Lane61190

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Posted April 14 2011 - 03:53 PM

I tripped for my first time at the age of 15 (Might have been 14) on 25 mg of 2CE. As MMT stated above, you are not too young, but it is best that you have no premeditated expectations of what you will feel, see, hear, and be encompassed by.

Now per the thread subject, and on a similar note, that first trip changed my life tremendously. My ego was disintegrated, my perception was exponentially broadened, and my belief in the infinite possibilities of this world was reinforced.

I have always been a pretty bright guy, and 6 years after my first trip I still fancy myself rather bright.... That being said... I will never know what effects 6 years of substance abuse has had.

That, I propose, is the debate. The human mind is as unique as it's fingerprints, and never will someone be able to tell you how YOU will react to a substance. They may be able to say your blood pressure will spike, or heart rate will increase, or whatever it may be, but never will you know what your mind will conclude.

Our body is one giant chemistry equation... and no two people balance the same.

to the 15 year old.... I will say this.... Once you trip for your first time... regardless of what "permanent effects" we may debate.... you WILL NOT be able to take it back, you WILL love it, and you WILL NEVER know all it's mysterious secrets.

Tripping is a permanent decision, regardless of permanent effects

Tripping is means to an end... an enlightened end


EDIT: This is my hundredth post... yaaay!

Edited by Lane61190, April 14 2011 - 03:55 PM.
Celebration

phan·tas·ma·go·ri·a   /fænˌtæzməˈgɔriə, -ˈgoʊr-/
noun

1. a shifting series of phantasms, illusions, or deceptive appearances, as in a dream or as created by the imagination.

2. a changing scene made up of many elements.

3. an optical illusion produced by a magic lantern or the like in which figures increase or diminish in size, pass into each other, dissolve, etc.

#28 7he4uthor

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Posted April 14 2011 - 04:02 PM

i just want to say i think this is an EXCELLENT question

i wish i could answer it for you fully
have you asked at erowid ?

there is a growing concern these days about psychedelics in general
more ppl are actually asking questions like you are rather than just jumping in.

if erowid has no answers try maps and do keyword searches

and pls post what you find or pm me
very interesting subject
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6overnment is two words [govern & ment] govern=control, ment/mente/mental=mind = "Mind Control"
7he government of 6od is control of the mind [psyche=soul in 6reek] in the cause of love

#29 7he4uthor

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Posted April 14 2011 - 04:05 PM

i was going to pm you but you have no pm contact so def pm me.
7he7ruth4uthor-1974 :sunny:
6overnment is two words [govern & ment] govern=control, ment/mente/mental=mind = "Mind Control"
7he government of 6od is control of the mind [psyche=soul in 6reek] in the cause of love