Born-Again Christians claiming they "used to be Atheist"

Discussion in 'Agnosticism and Atheism' started by sea of grass, Dec 12, 2009.

  1. sea of grass

    sea of grass Member

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    I've observed that a really common tactic of born-again Christians who are extra-zealous against Atheism is that they often claim that they "used to be one." Often, this argument holds no water with me, personally, because when they describe their former "Atheism" they state that they were "angry with God," or "hated God," or other such nonsense. Why is it nonsense? Because it shows they don't understand what Atheism actually is. If you are angry with, or hate, a diety, you are in fact still a believer who just happens to be unhappy with your diety of choice. You are still a theist. I think they like to use this example because they're trying to "identify" with Atheists in their attempts at conversion.

    I admit that dissatisfaction with organized religion in general lead me down the PATH of questioning my belief as a younger person, but it was a very gradual change. I didn't just wake up one day and decide I was an Atheist (in fact for several years of my youth - I grew up in a very "biblical" part of the country - I had never even heard of Atheism). It was probably a nine year process of going from being a total believer to adopting a more Deist perspective, to being somewhat Agnostic, to finally coming to the conclusion that I really do not believe in any diety. It's not hatred, it's just lack of belief. If I "hated" God (or as I affectionately sometimes refer to him/her/it, the imaginary friend) that would be as absurd as hating Superman, or the Tooth Fairy, or a Unicorn...I can't hate something that I don't think is there.

    As far as respecting the opinion of religious folks, I feel like it has to be a two-way street. If they can respect that I'm not going to convert and that I'm pretty secure in my lack of belief, I can respect their right to subscribe to their beliefs. That, however, is very rare from what I've experienced. I have rarely met a Christian, especially a born-again, who hasn't tried vehemently to convince me that I'm just wrong, wrong, wrong. In fact, most of them can be pretty rude, especially if you can intelligently (while still being personally respectful which I try my hardest to do) refute their arguments. They seem to really hate that. Look, anyone can believe what they want. The human imagination seems pretty limitless, and belief in a diety can be comforting because it provides more answers, where science can sometimes leave us scratching our heads...I can see why some humans are profoundly unsatisfied by a lack of answers and need some sort of thing to look forward to when they die as well. Whatever, I won't call a theist names or do anything to disrespect them (although a lot of them take you simply explaining why you don't believe what THEY believe intensely personally). But I have been dissed almost savagely by fundies. The respect often does NOT go two ways in these debates, because they seem to HAVE to be right and get the last word in, then tell you you're doomed to that wacky fire and brimstone stuff. This is why I don't always "respect their opinion." Why should I when they have no respect for me, or my opinion, and I've had a Jehovah's witness literally say that they thought I was "harboring the devil in my home." Isn't that silly? After the lady said that I was like, "oh now this could just be funny," and said something like, "yeah, we needed a third roommate to cover the rent and beelzubub (sp?) needed a place to stay, so it worked out. He's ALWAYS got money!" I lol'ed and they walked away...haven't had any JW's come to the door since (they are pretty fundie and weird a denomination).

    I do appreciate more intellectual theists who modify their principles to modern-day and don't take every word of their holy book literally, and who show more social tolerance to people. There are a few more liberal churches who welcome homosexual people to attend, etc. I respect that, totally, but it doesn't mean I believe. I do appreciate the progressive attitude of some denominations of certain faiths, however. It's nice to see that there are some religious folk who CAN still think for themselves and modify their practice to modern day. I still won't believe in a diety, though. That's the thing, I've also had these smarter theists try to convert me back into having faith because they aren't as "hardcore" so maybe I'll like it. It might be more fun to attend their services at church for the social aspect, but I'd still feel like I was only paying lipservice because I really don't believe in a god.

    I feel lucky because despite my social surroundings growing up, my parents themselves are kind of Agnostic-ish, and very lax about us kids and our beliefs growing up. My exposure to the church and the more perverse side of theism happened via. my stepdad's mom, who was into a very strict Pentecostal church. She refused to attend her own son's wedding to my mom, because my mom had been married previously. She just couldn't handle the concept of a blended family because she believed so fiercly in the dogma she'd been taught over her life. When I learned this fact at the age of 9, that is when I started to question belief at all. As I said, it was a very gradual process.

    I'll leave you with this thought: Even Stephen Hawking has said that there "may" be a "god." But that if there is, this diety would not meddle in our affairs or in the workings of the universe...which describes kind of a deist point of view. I'm pretty sure Hawking is a non-believer, but I do appreciate how he leaves room for the possibility. I personally don't think we have a creator either, but sometimes you do have to accomodate the people who would think you're "mean" for thinking there may not be a god.
     
  2. sea of grass

    sea of grass Member

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    hmmmm, another thought just popped into my newly-caffeinated brain. I saw a funny video on youtube the other day where this somewhat famous user with the handle "venomfangx" who was a young, evangelical creationist held up the Bible and went, "this is an awfully thick book for none of it to be true. It's so thick, look at how much information is in it, it must be true!" Another user made a video where he refuted the guy and this guy held up another thick book (holding it to the side so you couldn't see what it was at first," and went, "yeah, venomfangx, this is ALSO a thick book, look how thick it is, it MUST be true," then showed the cover of the book and it was The Lord of the Rings....I lol'ed. Of all the arguments this kid could have made to support his case, he used the thickness of the Bible to say it "must be true."
     
  3. geckopelli

    geckopelli Senior Member

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    Holier-than-thou is, unfourtunetly, a trait shared by Theist and Atheist alike.

    Both sides are so sure that they, and they alone, know The Answer...

    But what's the Question?
     
  4. MaxPatlick

    MaxPatlick Member

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    as an athiest, being christian looks like fun in some ways.. You get easy answers to difficult questions and you get to join a huge social group. Like how some people start smoking just to hang out with other smokers. (i have no idea if this actually happens or not)
     
  5. sea of grass

    sea of grass Member

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    Well all atheism can ever claim to be is a lack of a belief in a god. It can't be an "answer" it's just a lack of belief in a diety.
     
  6. Rudenoodle

    Rudenoodle Minister of propaganda Lifetime Supporter

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    Since I'm guessing the born again Christians you mentioned don't believe in Mithra, Thor or any of the other thousands of gods that have been worshiped throughout history I would say that they are technically still atheists. :p
     
  7. geckopelli

    geckopelli Senior Member

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    It's the certainty that no god exist. An absolute, static postion.
    An arbitrary answer.

    The difference between this and it's opposite is the word "no".
     
  8. def zeppelin

    def zeppelin All connected

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    The only thing that ever annoyed me wasn't the fact that someone was a theist or an atheist, but was the way they would express their beliefs or disbelief's with others.

    I dislike anything where one party talks down to another party; Just say that you don't believe or believe and why, not create accusations about the person's character.

    I may not be that intelligent of a Christian, but the Christians that you describe overshadow the Christians that actually care about the message of Christianity and still care to be logical.

    But you're right, there are many that make that same argument on how they hated God, but that sounds more like a struggling theist than someone who lacks belief. Because of these example, when there were actual atheists turned Christians, then those stories are usually taken as a lie.
     
  9. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Sometimes the claim of "born again" Christians that they were previously atheists is not simply a "tactic" but a statement of fact. I used to be an atheist, meaning I didn't believe in God. I wasn't angry at God; I didn't hate God. Those sentiments would be inconsistent with what I did believe: that God simply did not exist. My conversion to Christianity was sudden, as a result of an experience that led me to see a passage from the Bible in a different way, and as a result to view the world and people in a new way.
    But I didn't see it as my mission in life to make everybody else believe as I do. I share my thoughts and experiences, try to model a life based on Christian principles, and hope that it's helpful to others. And I listen to the views of others, including atheists, who often have valuable insights that influence and strengthen my faith and thoughts about God.
     
  10. Skizm

    Skizm Member

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    A born-again christian who says they used to be an atheist either A) Was never an atheist or B) Was a stupid atheist, yes, we do have them :(

    I'm a born-again atheist that used to be an idio... i mean catholic.
     
  11. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Stupid? That seems like a somewhat arrogant (stupid?) remark. I consider myself a Christian because the teachings and example of Jesus ring true to me as truths I want to live my life by, and because belief in "Something Big Out There" strikes me as the most efficient way of making sense of the amazing fact that the universe contains intelligent beings who can philosophize about this stuff. According to evolutionists like Gould, it didn't have to be that way. I consider myself "born again" because I developed this life-changing point of view as a result of a "moment of clarity" and it stuck. I was previously an atheist because the prevailing literalist formulations of Christian belief seemed to me then (as they do now) to be far fetched. You've come to a different conclusion, but why is mine stupid?
     
  12. RooRshack

    RooRshack On Sabbatical

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    It seems to happen with girls and weed. And then they decide they and all the people they started smoking weed with need to be drug free, and try to fuck everyones life up. Or with cigs, just holding one is usually an "in" to whatever conversation or group is happening.

    I didn't actully have anything to say, just that meaningless observation on smoking:coffee:
     
  13. Skizm

    Skizm Member

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    Because I said so, dur. When I say stupid/idiot, i am referring to people that believe fossils were put here to test our faith, that evolution isn't real, and that the Earth is 6,000 years old. If you follow the faith for the good aspects of it and reject the negative/ridonkulous aspect then you are not an idiot. You're a rational human being.

    In fact, I also believe in "something big out there", it's called space!

    What gets me is rational people subscribing to the beliefs because of several good ideas. Why not make your own belief system based off the good ideas that you take from a religion? Okiefreakism! I take bits and pieces from all major religions and leave behind the bullshit. Skizmism doesn't sound to good though :(
     
  14. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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  15. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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  16. geckopelli

    geckopelli Senior Member

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    The catholic church accepts evolution as FACT.

    if you're going to bash someone-- know thy enemy.
     
  17. Skizm

    Skizm Member

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    What? Since when? This is news to me... I mean they're still trying to have creationism taught to kids. Care to fill me in on this?

    Nothing wrong with that.
     
  18. Skizm

    Skizm Member

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    dblpst
     
  19. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    The last pope said evolution was a plausible theory. I don't know that they've officially accepted it as fact, but the Vatican science experts do. The principal expert witness attacking ID at the Dover textbook trial was Dr. Kenneth Miller, a devout Catholic. The principal expert witness advocating ID was Mr. ID himself, Dr. Michael Behe, also a devout Catholic. To the unsophisticated observer, the differences between these two Catholic biologists might seem minor. Behe accepts common descent for humans and chimps, but thinks the "irreducible complexity" of life can be explained only by divine intervention. Miller produced evidence tending to discredit the irreducible complexity theory, but believes God stacked the deck at an earlier stage by setting up natural conditions that would make the evolution of intelligent life inevitable. I suspect that, having been burned by the sun in the Galileo affair, the Vatican isn't looking for a showdown with Darwin.
     
  20. Skizm

    Skizm Member

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    I'm thinking of the bible-belt cuhrazies. Maybe there are more rational Christians elsewhere.
     

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