Sativa vs. Indica still relevant?

if you have a firefox browser you can block certain imagines.. or you can block all sigs with functions in the control panel ..

 

yeah- fuck the drug war!
most of the kids these days have no idea on how good the sativa strains were back in the sixties and seventies. I speak from experience. I smoked grass for the first time in'64 and I helped harvest my first plant in '67. I have been involved in cannabis ever since. The strains that you see today for the most part are grown strictly for commercial reasons. The more you get and the quicker you get it are really the most important thing to growers. I can tell you that most sativas that were available in the sixties took a minimum of 11 wks of flowering indoors to mature. some would be 14-16 wks. I grew a sativa once that was over 12 feet high that took over 14 wks to mature and I just got over 3 1/2 ounces out of it. Commercially- not a viable idea. But- fuck was the stone ever great!!! I could go on forever but this thread should really be in the strain section of marijuana not the hash section.

PAX

 

O.K I apologize for the name calling. It had nothing to do with the content of your posts, just the sig vid.
Thanks for changing it, btw...

In defense of modern strains,
I have one favorite sativa/indica cross called "Tennis shoe"
Any one heard of it?
Really nice tasty weed with that fun creative Sativa buzz and all the walloping intensity of Indica!

It would be a great if more domestic growers made hash!
(the old fashioned way... not solvent extracts) :cheers2:

ZW

 

i would love for anybody to challenge REAL east coast sour deisel with any of your legendary sativas from the past.... just saying. (no frame of reference, but i believe that that is a great example of todays sativas)

i really have to say that i believe that you older guys are letting nostalgia and the past get in the way of your appreciation for the present. and dont tell me i am young and i dont know what i'm talking about, the same thing happened to me like 10 years ago in regards to music. i was a huge fan of the heavier stuff being pumped out in the 90's and then numetal happened and i was seriously lost for like 5 or 6 years until i realized that in order to appreciate newer things i had to give up my closed mindedness and open my mind up to NEW things because THINGS CHANGE and if i didnt get that, my record collection for that genre would have stopped and never started again.

the thing that really botheres me though is that you say that the veriety in cannabis has dissapeared, but then you say how you used to be a connisure. well you may have been able to pick out a geographical location by looking, smelling, and tasting. but i can give you a rundown on genetics of your "made up funny named gimmiky strains" by seeing, smelling, and tasting. the difference is, that if the good 'ole strains were still around i'd probably want to learn about them too. why have you given up?

as far as the commercialism and the gimmicks employed by seed distributors, it has nothing to do with names, or "hype" related to that side of marketing. the seed companies use this little thing called the cannabis cup. it happens every year in amsterdam and it is where they go to show off the best of their offerings. for selling the commercialised strains of today the seed banks use word of mouth. they rely on grow journals, and people talking about their experiences growing and smoking their strain. people buy a strain because they like the taste, the way it grows, and the way it buzzes. in the cannabis industry i have to say its the smokers who say what is good and why, and its the smokers who buy based on that.

btw, i'm not diggin on anybody, i'm just trying to counter some of the things said as i find this an interesting debate

 

braindecay-
You said that seed companies enter their strains in the Cannabis Cup. Well, if you look at the winning strains under sativas for the majority of Cannibis Cups you will see that most of them are crosses of Haze[http://www.marijuanapassion.com/Haze.htm ]. I believe that what they are trying to do is just make Haze more of a commercially viable strain. Like that link says, Haze was developped in the late sixties or early seventies and is still considered one of the strongest strains in the world. Personally, I smoked sativas in the sixties that were better than LSD. I can't say that I ever smoked anything in this day and age that is as good as the strains of the sixties. And- I smoked some pretty good shit.

ZW-
The type of oldenday hash that you were talking about really isn't the way that hash was made in the sixties. Most of the hash was made by beating the plant until all the trichromes fell off and then it was compressed into hash. Although- I heard of a premium hash that was made by having the workers walk thru the fields wearing leather aprons until they were drenched in trichromes. This is similar to finger hash which came later. You might be familiar with this type of hash as it was black and tarry in appearance.

PAX

 

I was with you up until this part^^^

...I think you might be stretchin' it a little bit there, Pax ol' bean...


ZW eace:

 

Actually I'm not stretching it at all. What I should have specified was that the hallucinations were alot better than those on LSD. I realize I may be sounding like a snob BUT I smoked alot of great pot in the sixties. I smoked a sativa from Mexico and spent the entire evening watching a white swan flying around the room teasing a half a purple hippopotamus that was in the top right hand corner of the room. I also smoked a sativa from Asia which somebody described as an opium stone that you could walk around in.
What can I say- I smoked alot of personal stashes that were great! One that you might be familiar with was Panama Red. I'm sorry- but you just don't see it anymore. Maybe they are extinct.

PAX

 

Maybe we should all read this By D J Short:
Strains of Yesteryear
A retrospecive of the best marijuana varieties from the 70's and 80's
The author is "DJ Short", the creator of the Blueberry and Flo strains... , (article published in 2005)

COLUMBIAN

Colombian Gold

Colombian Gold came from the highland Colombian valleys near the equator, as well as on the coast (the Caribbean and the Pacific).

This was specialty pot offered commercially in the mid-70's, for about $60 to $100 per ounce. It was seeded, but most of the seeds were undeveloped, white and useless. A few rare, viable seeds were found that were dark, small-sized and roundish. The buds were leafy and the most beautiful golden blond color. Legend has it that upon maturity the plants were girdled, then left standing to die and cure in the mountain sun and mist.

The color and cure were unique, and the aroma, flavor and high were equally so. The smell was that of sandalwood incense, almost like frankincense. The flavor was that of a peppery cedar. It was some of the most unique tasting herb in the world, and the high was just as exciting. It was truly psychedelic, powerful and long lasting.

First came the great flavor, then the stupefying awe of the shift in consciousness followed by a giddy excitement and bursts of joyous laughter. Smile-lock and red-eye made it painfully obvious who was under the influence of this great psychedelic herb.

The plants from the seeds of the Gold were primarily of Sativa origin. They grew a medium to tall size outdoors at 45°N (Seattle), and were mostly symmetrical. On occasion the symmetry was interrupted by one side outgrowing the other, causing a rounded and bulging tipped bush look. The leaves were long and slender.

When grown in Washington state, the finished product was a sweet, spicy Sativa bud that matured around mid-November. The high was adequate but not as good as the Oaxaca Highland grown at the same latitude. The plants were also slightly hermaphroditic.


Colombian Red

Colombian Red was the near polar opposite of Colombian Gold. This lowland jungle pot (possibly from Brazil) was made up of dark red, almost black, chunky little nuggets of what appeared to be hash, stems, leaf and seed. The aroma was that of cedar and hash.

In the early 1980's, the Red cost only $30 to $60 an ounce due to its appearance, making it one of the best deals going. This pot was a narcotic, knock-you-down-and-out, super munchie, red-eye express. The joints would only burn half way before drowning in their own resin! The smoke was very expansive in the lungs with a powerful pine/hash flavor.

Before subjecting its victim to fits of gorging and deep snoozing, the experience usually included ridiculously long spasms of uncontrollable laughter. The silliest little image could induce hilarity beyond belief. This was the main herb around when the Cheech and Chong movies first came out.

The plants from the Red were among the first grown out by Americans. There were many seeds, medium-sized and dark grey, that sprouted and grew easily into a finished product that was more than adequate. The plants grew low, dark, and bushy, with uneven and somewhat scraggly branches that were easily broken from wind damage. The locally grown varieties rarely budded very much, so it is not certain when they would have finished. It would have been relatively late in November at the earliest.

MEXICAN

Highland Oaxaca

Highland Gold, somewhat similar to the Colombian Gold, lacked bright gold color but sported purple and red calyx tips on its blondish-brownish-green buds. It had larger buds surrounded by long, skinny leaves.

I smoked this variety during brief periods in the early 70's and again in the late 70's, paying anywhere between $40 and $120 per ounce. It was some of my all-time favorite because the aroma and flavor were of a super-spicy cedar incense with a slight fermented berry taste, in a very comfortable yet powerfully psychedelic pot. This herb contributed to many great parties, concerts and events of the era because it produced a very socially-conscious experience and mixed well with other psychedelics.

With a long lasting, creeper high that kept coming on in waves over the hours, this stuff had no ceiling. One phenomenon consistently reported from the Highland Oaxaca experience was that of peripheral visual distortions of primarily cartoon color images. This tended to increase the visual distortions caused by other psychedelics such as mushrooms or LSD.

The Oaxaca Highland Gold was a nearly pure Sativa which grew tall at 45°N, outdoors. It was also one of the most symmetrical Sativas I have encountered. The plants grew long side branches toward the bottom, and the even growth made these productive beauties look like Christmas trees when mature.

The finished product was a very sweet and spicy herb of the highest quality, with a hint of fruity pine aroma. The seeds for this variety were small, dark and round, and the plants exhibited slight signs of hermaphroditism and required surveillance to maintain seedlessness.

Guerrero

This strain from Mexico's coastal mountains came in famed green, seeded spears and cost $60 to $120 per ounce in 1977. It had a spicy, almost wintergreen fragrance compared to the other Mexicans with a very clear head high and a most pleasant smoke. It was not as strong as most, but this herb still had a way of satisfying all its own.

There was a legend about a group of entrepreneurs who imported seed from Lebanon to Guerrero and grew the famed Lebanese Upper Mountain (LUM) from the late 1970's to 1980. The LUM was electric, psychedelic and slightly sedative as well. A unique herb that I wish there would have been more of.

The seeds from the Guerrero were medium to large in size and grey to green in color. The plants from these seeds grew similarly to other Mexican and Colombian strains: a medium to tall, bushy, productive plant. The Guerrero Green, however, is where some of the famed onion and garlic flavored bud of the Pacific Northwest originated.

Michoacan Brown Spears

From the high valleys of Michoacan, this strain was very similar in shape and texture to the Guerrero, but dark brown, and with a more peppery, spicy, woody aroma. $40 to $60 bought a seeded ounce in 1975. Although it was somewhat more bland tasting than the Guerrero , this semi-commercial pot was by far better than the commercial Mexican that was all too available. It had a more distinct, spicy flavor than the regular Mexican, as well as a brighter high that was not as susceptible to tolerance or burnout.

The plants from the Michoacan Spears were nothing great. They were thick and bushy and matured earlier than the Colombians. Some were ready in late October, but most were ready in early November. The seeds were medium grey and plentiful. Like the Guerrero, they produced some unique spicy flavors when grown outdoors in the Pacific Northwest.


THAI

Highland Thai

Highland Thai was among the absolute sweetest and fruitiest herb on the planet. The delicate, sticky Sativa buds so efficiently tied to the little sticks were among the finest of herb.

The Highland Thai, I believe, is at least partially where the Haze variety originated. It was one of the finest Sativa plants grown for its finished product at 45°N.

It is from this variety that Juicy Fruit Thai came. Juicy Fruit Thai was one of the original (and very successful) P1's of my breed stock. Juicy Fruit Thai grew fast, long and very unevenly. Every week or so another side branch would erupt in a growth spurt, compete with and conquer any existing meristem (main stem), and become the temporary meristem until another faster shoot overtook it. The leaves were very long and slender, containing as many as 13 leaflets, and deeply contoured.

The Juicy Fruit Thai took anywhere from one to 19 weeks in the indoor bud cycle to finish. Outdoors, the Juicy fruit was smokable, but undeveloped and leafy, by late September. Small buds developed during October and would ripen and swell during November. The longest I was ever capable of growing Juicy Fruit outdoors was until mid-December, in a greenhouse, and the plant could have gone on longer.

The primary drawback to growing the Highland Thai, after its leafiness, was its hermaphroditism. Though few seeds were found, and plants grown from the seeds produced only minor quantities of seed, all of the product was hermaphroditic. Also, many of the male flowers were sterile on some of the plants, or on certain parts of certain plants.

Out of all of the varieties that I have worked with at 45°N, this Thai produced some of the most powerful herb. This stuff was purely cerebral, yet mentally devastating in quantity, with absolutely no ceiling. Once, a seasoned smoker friend and I tested how far we could go with the homegrown Juicy Fruit. I recall making it to the 14th bong hit and being completely incapable of continuing. My coordination and depth perception were so skewed that I was unable to physically conquer the bong! The experience rivaled that of taking too much LSD, causing an incapacitation of the psychedelic kind. Yet, it was also uniquely enjoyable, entertaining and educational at the same time. I had sparkly eyes for a day or two afterward.

The aroma was a super-sweet fruity tropical punch and the flavor expressed itself both in the bud and the smoke.


Chocolate Thai

The Chocolate Thai was another being entirely. Chocolate Thai came in larger wrapped sticks of a deep, rich, roasted coffee color and a coffee-chocolate aroma that was heavenly. It is my uncertain estimation that the Chocolate Thai was a lowland variety.

The imported product itself was unique not only in its aroma and flavor but in its strength as well. This was a dreamy, sleepy, narcotic high that was long lasting and consistent. The aroma possessed a deep, rich chocolate, appeal.

The seeds, many of which were pure black, were extremely small and round. They were few in numbers and only a few would sprout. The plants that did survive were terribly difficult to grow, and all were hermaphroditic. The leaves were long, dark and slender, with most sprouting trichomes early on. This strain was successfully crossed with the Oaxaca Highland to create what came to be known as Purple Thai.


Vietnamese

There was a bit of the Vietnamese herb around in the 70's, primarily early harvest which was mostly badly-cured leaf. Nonetheless, it had a quality all its own with a spicy, tangy flavor and crisp high. It was great joint pot, but I never grew any.

I heard rumors that a Vietnamese strain was cultivated in the Emerald Triangle in the 70's and early 80's.

Opium Soaked Herb

An element was added to certain shipments of Thai herb in the 70's: "early water."
A by-product of the heroin trade, early water was the leftover water used to create the heroin from the raw opium.
It contained all of the constituents of opium except most of the heroin.

The curing Thai herb was soaked in the water and redried to absorb the opiate alkaloids. The result was a high that was sought out by some, but more than most bargained for. A good wash was an enjoyable thing, but some were over-laced, which caused a dilemma for those who would start spinning after a few hits on a joint.


SPECIALTY HERBS

Black Magic African

This herb is the strongest ever. Although I have only smoked the Black Magic a very limited number of times, and I've never had more than a joint of my own, I feel it needs mention. I did once get to see a bag of this herb that belonged to someone else. It looked like rotted, black leaf, some leaves intact but crumpled, plus a powdery black shake. It had no particular odor other than sweet spicy moldy hay, and rolled best into thin pinjoints.

The smoke was slightly harsh, but with a very deep, rich flavor. I also recall that it produced lots of white smoke. Anyhow, this stuff was dangerous! I often questioned if it was truly pure herb. I have, however, sampled the same product from different sources at different times, all with the same story.

It was equatorial Black African, the supposed herb of some tribe, Pygmy group, or another equally incredible origin! It was likely an indigenous Central African herb. One pinjoint between three or four people was more than adequate. This was truly the most devastating and consciously inebriating herb I have ever smoked.

I do not recall ever passing out or losing consciousness, but I did have to let go in order to come back . This stuff alone could cause one to reach 3.5 pluses on the Shulgin psychedelic rating scale!

I never was able to acquire seeds from the Black African, though I have tried. It is one of the few indigenous strains that I am interested in working with.


Durban Poison

Durban herb has reached semi-commercial levels in the past. All of the South African herb that has made it to market that I have tried has been a bit too powerful and speedy. I always get that heart racing effect similar to the Jamaican. There are, however, very many people who enjoy a good carnival ride herb, and Durban is a very powerful choice, indeed.

The seeds of Durban that I grew during the early to mid-80's produced medium/tall Sativas with spear shaped buds – uniform plants in both structure and finished product. Although production was good, the flavor was a sharp, astringent, chemical odor that burned the nose and sinuses.


Venezuelan

There was some fine Venezuelan herb available briefly in the mid-1970's for between $50 to $70 an ounce. It was sort of like the better commercial Colombian or Mexican of the day, but it was a bright yellowish color and not as tightly bricked, making the buds fluffier than most other bricked shipments.

The smoke was sweet, then spicy on the exhale – evidence of a good cure. The head was also a bit more pleasant than the more commercial varieties.

Unfortunately, I was never able to grow any of the many seeds available from the Venezuelan. I remain curious as to how they would fare both indoor and out.

The high was intense and strong but not notably enjoyable, so the Durban was dropped from any further breeding work.


Indian Elephant & Buddha Stick

There was a small supply of Indian tied stick pot available at the end of the 70's and the beginning of the 80's. These sticks were characterized by their large size compared to the smaller Thai Stick.

The Buddha stick was lighter colored and sweeter with a distinct juniper flavor. It was very stimulating to the palate. The Elephant stick was the largest tied sticks, some up to an ounce each, and darker. Of the two, I preferred the Buddha due to its being more cerebral and heady, but the Elephant stick was a fine and powerful product as well.

I was able to grow some of the seeds from the Buddha stick. It produced a pungent smelling herb of the juniper/licorice flavor. Most of the plants grew medium bushy, and most, but not all, were hermaphroditic. The harvest time was medium as well, 10 to 12 weeks indoors, very late October to November outdoors at 45°N.

I called the product Gin Blossom and grew a bit of her in the late 70's and early 80's. It was not until I replicated the flavor in the Blueberry lines that I retired the Gin Blossom strain.


Panama Red

From what I've gathered, Panama Red comes from any number of brash entrepreneurs who have damned the tides of oppression and grown copious amounts of primarily good old Colombian Red seeds in the wonderfully situated country of Panama, or any of her many isles.

Located a mere eight or nine degrees north of the equator, this tropical paradise has a coast on both the Pacific or the Caribbean Sea, without much distance between them, but a lot of elevation. The Panama Red that I am accustomed to was similar to the Colombian Red, but airier – not as compressed. It had a unique island flavor to it, with a spicy/sweet Sativa rush. Some called it the Tequila of herb, as it produced a high that greatly lowered inhibitions, creating a desire to consume more until it was too late!

For some drinkers, the Panama Red did not mix too well with alcohol, but for most it was a pleasant party high.

I did grow some seeds of Panama Red on more than one occasion. The plants were of the medium bushy character of the Colombian Red, with a little more hermaphroditism, and very long flower cycle (12 weeks indoor, late November outdoors). Unfortunately, however, this was at the same time that I was also growing the famed Highland Thai and new Afghan plants that were so unique, new and powerful, and the Panama Red became neglected.

HASHISH

Moroccan

Moroccan hash is the North African staple. It appears anywhere from deep brown to golden yellow and has a spicy leather flavor to it. Almost all Moroccan hash is screened and pressed. Though lower in potency than most black hash, this commercial offering costs less and tends to be more readily available through the years.

Moroccan plants are shorter and designed to grow tightly together, producing a single hemp-like stalk and a fat and dense single cola at the top. It is an apparent Sativa/Indica cross.

Lebanese Red and Blonde

Lebanese is another Sativa/Indica cross of short stature and density. A bit shorter and bushier than the Moroccan, it had a dark reddish hue.

The legendary Red Lebanese hash holds its own place. Red Leb had the distinct pine/juniper flavor and aroma, with a tangy spice leather to the exhaled smoke. It was sharp on the sinuses and nasal passages.

Most Red Leb hash was screened and pressed, except for the legendary Red Lebanese Honey Oil. The famed oil, only available to me from 1973-77, was in a class all of its own. The oil had a sharp juniper/cedar smell to it. It was the most powerful, lung expansive cannabis product that I had ever encountered. We would buy these glass oil pipes simply to find them useless, as no one could hold even the smallest toke of this stuff.

The oil had to be smeared onto a rolling paper or the side of a cigarette, or it had to be chased into a pile of herb with a flame from below. It was truly some of the finest. The home-grown isomerized oils of the 80's were pale in comparison to the great Red Leb.

Lebanese Blonde, the "working person's hash," was a lower grade of hash than the Red, and quantities were less expensive as well. It was less dense, making grams appear larger and giving the illusion of economy. Good Blonde had character, a spicy/woody flavor and aroma, plus a clean, woody taste. The high was a bit more than the Red, furthering the appeal to working people.


Nepalese temple balls

The Buddhists have a saying: "May all beings be happy." They also have a hash to back it up with: black finger rubbings from high in the Himalayas. This was some of my all-time favorite.

Nepalese is among the most cerebral of hashish. A strong yet pleasant head journey packed in every puff. This is some of the happiest hash I have experienced. The taste is spicy/fruity/earthen and among the most enjoyable of hash flavors. Most Nepalese hash is from rubbings, although I have heard from travelers to the area that screened and pressed varieties are available.

Simply put: Nepalese Temple Ball is some of the happiest, fruitiest and most pleasantly flavorful, highest quality hash that I have ever experienced.

Afghanistan & Hindu Kush

Rolling off the great crest of the Himalayas to the west and to the north are an apex of mountainous zones that define the northern borders of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Squished among these is the little region of Kashmir and the Hindu Kush mountains. This area may well be the oldest hashish producing area in the world, perhaps the birthplace of hash!

The plants of the area, the Indica variety, have been manipulated and bred by humans since antiquity. Short, dense and stout, with wide, dark leaves, these plants make the best of their high mountain, short-seasoned environment. They were bred to produce large amounts of easily detachable glandular resin heads, ideal for hashish production. These areas incorporate both rubbed, screened and pressed methods of hashish production.

Afghan hash, and the Indica strain for that matter, possess a much more sedative, dreamy, narcotic effect compared to the Sativa. This is true of the Afghan and Hindu Kush plants grown in the Pacific Northwest since 1978.

I believe more Indicas should be made into hashish, which is where the finer qualities of the Indica appear.

A quantity of Afghan seed was smuggled to the Emerald Triangle in 1978. Commercial production of the strain began shortly after that. There may have been earlier trials with Afghan seed in the region prior to 1978, but none ever made it to commercial production quantities or to public market.


THE ISLANDS

Hawaiian

Hawaiian a true classic. There is something special about a good island herb, and Hawaiian is among the best. When properly grown outdoors it has a wonderful and unique bouquet of fruity spice, similar to the sweetness of the fine Thai, but with a kind of tangy taste.

Good Hawaiian herb has always been a devastatingly powerful experience for me. It is very psychedelic and internally focused, contemplative and overpoweringly meditative. A Walk with the King, a Dance with the Queen, and a sunset on the beach! Aah... Hawaiian!

I have tried to equal the Hawaiian experience outdoor on the mainland, and indoors, with no success. Everything I have grown from Hawaiian stock turned out to be nowhere near the quality of the parent stock. This is true for three generations of trials. The product from Hawaiian seed was equal to the best plants grown from mid-quality Colombian stock!

This led me to a hypothesis about Hawaii: that just about any stock grown in Hawaii will turn out to be of unique and relatively high quality. Hawaii just happens to be one of those special places, I suppose.

All breeding attempts with Hawaiian stock were dumped from my garden by 1983. It was a pretty and robust plant though, and also quite productive. Just not all that impressive when grown outside its homeland.

Jamaican Lion's Herb

It has been on rare occasion that I have sampled truly enjoyable Jamaican herb. These rare samples came directly from friends who knew growers there. It was similar to the Hawaiian experience, but with more of a take-your-breath-away feeling of excitement.

The problem I have encountered with the commercial Jamaican is that it is too damned strong and speedy! Jamaican is renowned for its lively herb, for which I can vouch. It is a heartlifting herb and I have a sensitive heart. So I am careful with the samples of the commercial Jamaican ganja that I try.

Much like Hawaiian, the Jamaican strains are perhaps best expressed in their homeland, because I have had little success in producing an adequate example. Both indoors and out, the Jamaican behaves and ends up much the same as mid-level Colombian. Perhaps all Island herb is unique in this fashion.

Philippine Thrilla from Manilla.

The Philippines are another Island chain renowned for producing great herb. I once possessed a small quantity of what was supposed to be Philippine herb in the late 1970's. It had a strong citrus aroma that produced a spicy smoke and a heady high. I never grew the strain, so I have nothing to report on the plants. The herb was a light green Sativa and seeded, so hopefully someone has had experience with this strain.






PAX

 

No problem, I tried +rep you now but it says I need to spread it around first.

Never heard of Tennis shoe, I'll look into it. And hell yes it would be great if more people made hash, it is pretty rare around where I live and sometimes not that great.

 

Pax man, I have smoked everything on that list( except the jungle weeds, African, Phillippino and Pakistan weed and of course Panama red is before my time...What the hell happened to Panama red?....

All those Mexican's and Columbians (and Thai's) were around when I first started smoking at about age 12 (1972)
Non of it prepared me for my first hit of acid
(Swedish stamp blotter; age 13)

I gotta tell ya, me and my friends were pretty indignant when the street price of an oz Columbian gold reached 50$! (Had we only known what the future would hold!)

I know their are still some tasty super Mex's out there, but for me, the combination of living so far north and the pot snobbery around here,( Green means good, brown means shwag)
It is rare I get to smoke any nice brown buds at all...

ZW eace:

 

Great post PAX-MAN !:cheers2:
I also remember smoking just about all the ones mentioned except for the philipine and jaimaican.
The descriptions are dead on accurate from what I can remember.
The Temple ball I was fortunate enough to sample was also mixed with about 20% opium. Anyone else encounter that?

Black Magic African must be what I smoked once. The description is dead on and it was the only time in 35 years that I prayed to be sober again from pot, and that was on less than half a joint! Got a 1/2 ounce for like $70, black and tar like, I assumed it had been soaked in hash oil, even though it didn't smoke like it. That was in '77.

Did you ever see Cherry oil? Very potent and had a color like transmission fluid. Only had it once in about '75.
Thanks for posting that reference, gotta go find the book now.

So it's not just us old farts with foggy memories, there really were some distinct and unique varieties back then that you just don't see anymore.

 

Well I would think that the article Pax-Man posted would help to vindicate the position of us old farts.

You don't get it. There used to be differences not only because of genetics but also due to climate, soil, and curing methods.
Today the vast majority of weed is grown hydroponicly indoors and curing methods are pretty much the same for most growers.
I like and enjoy much of what is being produced today. But I really miss some of the types from the past. I feel that the whole arena of weed has kinda gotten "muddy" and has lost real distinction between strains. That doesn't mean that there aren't some potent, good tasting, great things out there, just that something has been lost.
And who ever said we've given up learning and trying different strains?

Just the fact that there is a Cannabis Cup tends to validate my point about the marketing.
Growers join in order to promote thier strains and if they win something then it boosts the sale of thier seeds.
Am I Wrong?
I have no issues at all with the Cannabis Cup and have been aware of it and followed for the past couple of decades it's been around. I just don't get a hard on over the new strains and stuff. Regardless of what you may think the differences in todays strains pale in comparison to the differences of the geographical varities of the past. And I am talking about a lot more than just potentcy.
I'm sorry your not able to sample them to see what we are talking about.
A lot of that is because as you progressively cross-breed you start to move towards a more homogeneous genetic stock. You just can't deny that, it's simple genetics. You start to breed out any genetic uniqueness.

I'm all for the work being done by growers and breeders today, but
DAMN, I sure would like a bag of some nice Columbian Gold, seeds and all, or even a nice fat Thai stick.

 

I'm afraid the cops get little credit for the demise of variety.
Blame it on dope dealer greed.

...and Santa Marta Gold... and leboneses blond hash... and afghani temple balls...

 

I can tell you what happened to all those old strains.
Cocaine fueled greed destroyed them.

Customs shut down the border in 69 and the old carribean smuggling routes were re-opened. South America came into the mix, and some idiot threw a duffle bag full of coke in a plane full of weed. the duffle bag was worth more than the whole fucking plane, weed and all. So Little countries like Panama switched from weed to the much more profitable blow.

Santa Marta Gold became known, and commercial columbian gold, and then worst, was born.
By the early 80's drug cartels rulled the world and columbian seeds were getting shipped all over. Mostly commercial grade crap. I personally saw 10 ki's of seeds leave cartehenga (sp?) columbia bound for Bangkok. So much for thai sticks.
Some of you may recall the flood of chocalate thai (good-- damn good, but not AWESOME) that hit the west coast around 84. that was a first generation cross, which quickly degraded upon inbreeding.

At the same time, indicas of the hindu kush variety were becoming commercially availalible via upheavel in afghanistan. These were bred into the mix, at first producing the legendary Northen Cali Domestics of the 80's, but then falling into degradation from over breeding. Only Skunk#1 emerged as a true and worthwhile variety of it's own, but it, like the sativa's of old, was quickly "improved" into generic obscurity by profit seeking growers.

Personally, I'd trade a million hits of acid for one real, $15 thai stick!

 

Yep, thats true from my vantage point, as I said earlier...
"as you progressively cross-breed you start to move towards a more homogeneous genetic stock. You just can't deny that, it's simple genetics. You start to breed out any genetic uniqueness."

Nice to hear others say the same thing, now I don't feel so alone:cheers2:

 

My friend, I've been involved in growing weed (and a whole lot more!) for nearly 35 years, in Cali, the Caribbean, Florida, Southern Mexico, the south east US, and Jamaica, as well as closley connected to SE asia and Hawiian growers.

You can bet you ass you're right. And I defy anyone to produce a TRUE sativa ANYWHERE on earth. You might get lucky in southern africa (I wouldn't hold my breath-- but at my last connect, admittedly 4-5 years ago, the rumors of primal weed were still floating), or maybe Jamaica, because I knew a Rastaman grower in the blue mountains who swore he would protect the purity of his lambs BREATH (NOT "bread") with his life, and susequently disappeared in his boat.

But I'll tell you; I go to a weed store, and they got a huge selection. But it's priced by boquet, not quality of the Buzz, and the difference between one and another ain't all that much-- except $30 an 1/8

 

I don't doubt that strains have changed much over time. I also agree that a lot of the names are rather silly. And I have absolutely no clue about the sativa thing, as I'm not that into the botany/growing aspects of the cannabis culture. However, you're fucking crazy/with bad sources if you can't find weed with unique qualities.

I've only ever gotten Blueberry Yum Yum from this one guy, and since have lost contact with him. I don't know for sure if it was just his shit or the strain itself, but it was almost like shrooms it gave me such a psychedelic high. Every time I smoked it I got uncontrollably laughy and major hallucinatory distortion of the world around me (especially macropesia).
I've not since felt a high quite the same and have always wanted to get my hands on some more of it.
And I can't remember the name of this strain my friend had for awhile - but the high was so extremely numbing feeling - like I had taken a huge overdose of painkillers - and it left me feeling like I was close to paralyzed. It didn't even smell like weed to me, and it tasted sorta nasty. He's been trying to get his hands on it again - I'll probably stay away from it if he does =P

 

In the mid seventies the dollar had exactly 4 times the buying power than the dollar does today.
So that would make an ounce of Colombian gold worth $240-$400 in todays money.

Thats exactly what an ounce of good-great weed costs today.... and it wont have seeds for that price, and wont be shipped in a compressed brick.

 

The best columbian gold went for $35 on the street and was about 40% seeds by weight. that should work out to less than $200 an oz for far better weed than the og kush and such that dominates the legal weed market now.

There's about 30 different kinds at the weed store i go to. they look and smell different, but as far as the buzzz goes, six of one and half a dozen of the other. Some are more sleepy, but that's about it.

 

Even back then you couldn't count on stain names. It has been stated in this thread that the majority of this weed is grown outdoors so it is likely to develop many seeds. Many seed planted equals many different genetics, grown outdoors under varying weather conditions. This means varying potencies of specific chemicals, tastes, looks... yes they will be similar but not the same. You could get an terrible batch of CG one day and an amazing one then next. But its guaranteed that weed coming from Columbia will be dry and harsh when it gets here... They are not going to pack it fresh to be cured here and risk mold.

At least with clubs you have a consistent product being produced.

wow. 40% seeds, that must of sucked.