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Father Daughter and Nudity


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#1 mugface

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Posted October 14 2008 - 12:25 PM

I don't know if this is the correct forum but I thought people here might understand. I have one daughter who is my pride and joy. The only time I ever see her naked is when I help her wash her hair. It's very long and thick and she doesn't always do the best job of getting it clean. My wife usually does it for her, but on occasion she's unable to so my wife has asked me to help. My daughter even asks some times if I could wash it instead of her mom.

The problem is now that she's 13, has been having her period for a year, and now my wife thinks it's not appropriate for me to see our daughter naked. One one hand I get it. Our daughter has pubic hair, breast, and is turning out to be a very attractive young lady. I've asked her ( daughter) if she was embarrassed for me to see her naked since she was getting older, and she said it wasn't a big deal. She doesn't seem the least bit shy about me seeing her naked and will just stand there and talk casually to me even with nothing on.

Personally I'm the same way and our daughter has even walked into our bathroom a couple of times to get something when I was showering. I never thought much of it and she didn't mention it either. It's not like either of us walk around the house naked. We're just naked when it's necessary and it just so happens that someone else in the family sees you in that state. No big deal right? Basically neither of us have issues with nudity, but my wife does.

Part of me agrees with my wife, but the other part is jealous. I just feel jealous at times that she might have a bond with her mother that I'm being forced out of. I don't know how to breech this issue with my wife without blowing this up to WWIII proportions.

My wife doesn't have an issue with either of us being naked around each other as husband and wife. It's the father daughter thing that creeps her out I guess. I don't think she had a super close relationship with her father. Last week she said something that really upset me. Our daughter asked me to wash her hair for her. Nothing unusual. When my wife got home she asked me if our daughter took a shower before bed. I said, "No she took a bath I washed her hair for her". The wife said she didn't like me doing this, especially when I was home alone with our daughter. ???

That hurts. I feel like I'm being accused of molesting her. I've never touched her (the daughter) anywhere except for her head when she was naked and I've even had talks with her about other people (including her parents) touching her in an area that her swimsuit covers. I just don't get where the sudden mis-trust comes from. My wife has no concept or understanding of the depth or passion I have in protecting our daughter's innocence. She would have to be a father to understand.

So last week I was a responsible parent, and now I'm a suspected under-age sex offender. That's what it feels like.

I don't expect to win this one, and will probably just let it go, but it just sort of makes me sad. I don't want my daughter to feel she has to distance herself from me just because she's developing physically. And don't read into this that I don't appreciate my wife. She's wonderful. I just think she's being over protective a bit much.

So I guess I better not mention that when I try to kiss my daughter on the cheek before I leave for work, she turns her head sometimes so I kiss her lips. I'd be moved off to a separate house or something.

I plan on just laying low and riding this out, but any advise from anyone who has been there would be helpful. Maybe I'm wrong and I shouldn't see her naked at her age. All I really care about is the smiles, closeness, and openness that we currently have. Any fathers, mothers, or daughters with any advice on this subject?

#2 Blade_Rain

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Posted October 14 2008 - 03:10 PM

I feel very sad for you. You share such a special connection with your daughter. No matter what others' opinions may be, I believe you should cherish that connection, and try to hold onto it. It's very unfortunate that your wife might be suspecting you. Perhaps you should try to explain how you feel, if you haven't already.

The part that hit me hardest, was when you said that you felt a bit of jealousy, like the Father-Daughter bond was being taken from you. Do not let it go!

From an unbiased POV, I can see why your wife wouldn't want you seeing your daughter naked. However, it really sounds to me as if nothing sexual is going on, and it's purely casual, in which case, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. Then again, you'd have to define 'wrong' for yourself. Other people are going to find disgust just because you're naked around your daughter, and the two of you don't mind. Being misunderstood really sucks :(

I don't have much advice, other than to keep holding onto your bond with your daughter. Sounds like you two have a really great relationship :)

You really don't so so many fathers as connected to their daughters as you sound. Almost as if people think that a Mother-Daughter connection is more important the one with the Father, and vice versa for boys... Sad, in my opinion.

#3 verseau_miracle

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Posted October 14 2008 - 03:14 PM

Why cant the kid wash her own hair at age 13?
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#4 californiasun

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Posted October 14 2008 - 03:17 PM

If you're asking what you should do, I suggest talking to your wife about it. However, as a mother of three, seeing your children unclothed shouldn't be a problem. When my daughter was around that age, she was comfortable unclothed in front of my husband and me. Seeing your daughter naked at that age isn't wrong unless she's uncomfortable with it, which apparently she isn't. So as long as she's comfortable being unclothed in your presence, I don't see why it's wrong to help her.

#5 Blade_Rain

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Posted October 14 2008 - 04:28 PM

Why cant the kid wash her own hair at age 13?


It boils down to choice and choice alone. If she wants to, she can do it herself. Apparently, she wants her dad to do it, and doesn't mind. It doesn't matter what age she is, it's still her choice how she wants it done.

#6 mugface

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Posted October 14 2008 - 04:44 PM

Why cant the kid wash her own hair at age 13?

She does most of the time, but usually once or twice a week she wants to take a bath in her mom's (over-sized) tub. It is harder for her to wash her own hair there, plus I think she's a little spoiled. For me I guess it's just one more thing I'm holding onto from her being a little girl. I'm sure that soon she'll eventually just want to always do it herself, but I'm not going to be the one pushing her away.

Thanks for your opinion everyone. This probably will be forgotten in a few years. Everyone is a first-time parent once. Now's my turn. I'm just trying to do the right thing. I was just reading elsewhere how fathers could give their daughter a negative image of their body if they distanced themselves from them as they matured. Like..."O no. You have boobs so I can't hug you anymore." I don't want that to happen.

Nudity has been an issue before this event. I like sleeping naked, but my wife thinks it's weird. It's such a shame too cause my wife is quite a fox.

#7 verseau_miracle

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Posted October 14 2008 - 04:45 PM

It boils down to choice and choice alone. If she wants to, she can do it herself. Apparently, she wants her dad to do it, and doesn't mind. It doesn't matter what age she is, it's still her choice how she wants it done.



Thanx for the lesson. I just read his post as "she has some difficulty" and I was wondering why at that age, thats all. It may be relevant. I personally dont take issue with 2 naked family members of whatever age or gender being together, I just thought it unusual the kid didnt wash her own hair at 13, thats all
You cant blame the mother and whoever else of having some reservations. Its a sensitive age and, well, we all know what societys like these days
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#8 verseau_miracle

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Posted October 14 2008 - 04:47 PM

She does most of the time, but usually once or twice a week she wants to take a bath in her mom's (over-sized) tub. It is harder for her to wash her own hair there, plus I think she's a little spoiled. For me I guess it's just one more thing I'm holding onto from her being a little girl. I'm sure that soon she'll eventually just want to always do it herself, but I'm not going to be the one pushing her away.

Thanks for your opinion everyone. This probably will be forgotten in a few years. Everyone is a first-time parent once. Now's my turn. I'm just trying to do the right thing. I was just reading elsewhere how fathers could give their daughter a negative image of their body if they distanced themselves from them as they matured. Like..."O no. You have boobs so I can't hug you anymore." I don't want that to happen.

Nudity has been an issue before this event. I like sleeping naked, but my wife thinks it's weird. It's such a shame too cause my wife is quite a fox.

Ah this explains it:) Thanx. I can understand that. My mum used to wash my hair as a kid and we kept on until I was a few years younger than your daughter too
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#9 Blade_Rain

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Posted October 14 2008 - 05:10 PM

Thanx for the lesson. I just read his post as "she has some difficulty" and I was wondering why at that age, thats all. It may be relevant. I personally dont take issue with 2 naked family members of whatever age or gender being together, I just thought it unusual the kid didnt wash her own hair at 13, thats all
You cant blame the mother and whoever else of having some reservations. Its a sensitive age and, well, we all know what societys like these days



I don't mean any offense by this, but when I read that first line, I instantly marked the whole think as sarcastic without even reading it first. Lord, I need to get out of that bad habit lol.

And btw, I think the problem with society is acceptance and tolerance. Personally, accepting and tolerating everyone and everything (not everything, you know what I mean :) ) sounds a bit far-fetched to me, but it would eliminate some problems. Crap, I don't even know what I'm saying :D just talkin'.

#10 verseau_miracle

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Posted October 14 2008 - 05:12 PM

I don't mean any offense by this, but when I read that first line, I instantly marked the whole think as sarcastic without even reading it first. Lord, I need to get out of that bad habit lol.

And btw, I think the problem with society is acceptance and tolerance. Personally, accepting and tolerating everyone and everything sounds a bit far-fetched to me, but it would eliminate some problems. Crap, I don't even know what I'm saying :D just talkin'.


Yeah you need to get out of the habit. Im not best at phrasing things at 2.15am, which is the time here right now;)
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#11 Blade_Rain

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Posted October 14 2008 - 05:13 PM

Yeah you need to get out of the habit. Im not best at phrasing things at 2.15am, which is the time here right now;)


Good Jesus that was a fast reply :O

#12 mugface

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Posted October 14 2008 - 06:38 PM

You cant blame the mother and whoever else of having some reservations. Its a sensitive age and, well, we all know what societys like these days

Sad but true. Yeah. Society is so messed up. I guess it's that and the fact that my wife father was gone all the time. She was never really close to him plus she's never been one to let others see her nude. I on the other hand, during high-school athletics and while in the military found it necessary to have to take shower with 50 other guys. Nudity just isn't a big deal to me especially when it comes to bathing. That's just necessary.

I was just wondering if I was a complete weird-o for thinking that nudity in this context (father/daughter) was fine. I was always mindful of what others thought and would never allow myself to be undressed in the same room at the same time as her but one a one-sided basis I don't think it matters. That's just me.

Thanks for everyone's opinion. I just found this forum and was happily surprised at how easy this was to talk about here. Very cool.

#13 BarePixels

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Posted October 15 2008 - 02:26 AM

You cant blame the mother and whoever else of having some reservations. Its a sensitive age and, well, we all know what societys like these days


Just because the default position of society seems to be to assume that everyone is a rabid pervert doesn't mean that this attitude should be perpetuated within the comfort and safety of a loving family home. No-one should be made to feel uncomfortable with simple, non-sexual nudity in any context.

#14 coolcat23

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Posted October 16 2008 - 01:04 PM

Like the original poster of this thread, I have a daughter of a similar age. I agree that just seeing your daughter naked with no sexual context is totally fine. My daughter is totally comfortable with her body and doesn't mind me seeing her naked. It seems that the american and western ways associate nudity with sex.

#15 kansas

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Posted October 31 2008 - 10:35 AM

thats so great
i have never ever heard anything like that
every man i know that are dads would be like "yea thats wrong" right away your daughter probably understands how you feel about nudity and she probably trusts you a lot a lot a lott because im sure she's heard stories but i think with your wife talking like that making the indication? that something is wrong with that it'll probably have some effect on your daughter and she'll be like oh okay i guess i should stop making this akward situation for my parents
well im 17 and i only see my dad some summers not even that sometimes
i think its beautiful that she trusts you like that you must have a really pure heart or something
one day when things are quiet just tell your wife how you feel
especially about feeling shes taking a bond away from you
i think she should understand that

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#16 Amanda's Shadow

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Posted October 31 2008 - 10:46 AM

i definitely dont think its a problem kissing her on the lips. I kiss (peck) my bro and dad and sisters and mom etc on the lips..

I havent felt comfortable naked in front of my dad since i was like 7, and its cool your daughter isnt, but I owuld just warn you of what other people might think.
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#17 mugface

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Posted October 31 2008 - 11:39 AM

thats so great
your wife talking like that making the indication? that something is wrong with that it'll probably have some effect on your daughter and she'll be like oh okay i guess i should stop making this akward situation for my parents

Yeah, it's pretty much come down to that I think. I suspect my wife's told her not to ask me anymore cause she stopped abruptly. I was just thinking about this the other night. My wife asked me to bring her some hot tea while she was in the bath tub. Then my wife wanted the phone to call her mom. Then she wanted a magazine. Then I thought of this discussion and..."Ah! So that's where our daughter gets her spoiled bath-time habits from. Her mother." And of course I enjoy spoiling anyone in my family if they don't want something unreasonable.

I've decided not to take it to personally. I noticed that my wife doesn't want our daughter to see her naked either. Weird isn't it? My wife and I can see each other naked, my daughter and I have seen each other naked, but she stays covered around our daughter. Again, I'm not talking about walking around the house naked. I'm talking about times when you would normally be undressed already. Bathing, dressing, etc. I think I need to kidnap my wife and take her to a nudist colony or something. :) Psst! News flash dear. Everyone is naked under their clothes.

I havent felt comfortable naked in front of my dad since i was like 7, and its cool your daughter isnt, but I owuld just warn you of what other people might think.

Yeah, I had a short conversation with her about the time she started the 7th grade. I know how girls can talk and mentioned that she should feel completely comfortable at home talking to her mom and dad about nudity, sex, and relationships but she shouldn't blab everything she knows to her friends at school. They probably wouldn't understand.

Not to pry, but why do you start feeling insecure about nudity with your family when you get older? I mean, I don't expect that kids who are in high school will want their mom or dad walking in on them while they're dressing, but haven't you ever forgotten to take a towel into the shower, or wished you had a razor in the bath tub?

#18 Amanda's Shadow

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Posted October 31 2008 - 01:19 PM

yeah...but ill call my mom in. i distinctly remember a time when i was 6 or 7 that my dad was dressing me for a swim meet or practice and that was the first time i felt horribly uncomfortable with the idea. i dont know why
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#19 kansas

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Posted October 31 2008 - 01:28 PM

[quote name='mugface']Yeah, it's pretty much come down to that I think. I suspect my wife's told her not to ask me anymore cause she stopped abruptly. I was just thinking about this the other night. My wife asked me to bring her some hot tea while she was in the bath tub. Then my wife wanted the phone to call her mom. Then she wanted a magazine. Then I thought of this discussion and..."Ah! So that's where our daughter gets her spoiled bath-time habits from. Her mother." And of course I enjoy spoiling anyone in my family if they don't want something unreasonable.

I've decided not to take it to personally. I noticed that my wife doesn't want our daughter to see her naked either. Weird isn't it? My wife and I can see each other naked, my daughter and I have seen each other naked, but she stays covered around our daughter. Again, I'm not talking about walking around the house naked. I'm talking about times when you would normally be undressed already. Bathing, dressing, etc. I think I need to kidnap my wife and take her to a nudist colony or something. :) Psst! News flash dear. Everyone is naked under their clothes.

aha! i always pretty much did everything myself
yea dont take it personally maybe shes just uncomfortable with herself naked? yes you should deffinately take her to a nudist colony aahaa she would freak out
thats weird though my mom has no shame being naked around me never
but she would probably feel weird with my brothers im sure
and my brothers would not want to see that.
yea casual stuff i dont see anything wrong with that
i see my friends naked, their not like nudists or anything but when their getting dressed or out of the shower and whatever its fine and normal and you're probably like a friend and a dad to your daughter
clothes are stupid anyway i mean so many people are afraid of being naked thats why nudity in society has like a chemical imbalance or something its not beautiful its something to cover up
and the people that dont cover up are on tv and are considered untasteful and they probably have all the wrong inentions so its looked down upon and thats the only way people see it
as perverted
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#20 LastC5

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Posted November 01 2008 - 06:26 AM

.

#21 OldTroll

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Posted November 01 2008 - 07:57 AM

Let me just ask you one question and be totally honest when you answer. How would you feel if you had a son and the roles were reversed with your wife and him? If you would feel totally comfortable about her being alone with him and doing things for him naked, then I'd say it's OK for you to do the same with your daughter.

Great question!



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#22 mugface

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Posted November 01 2008 - 02:35 PM

How would you feel if you had a son and the roles were reversed with your wife and him?

Well said. I honestly don't think it would be a big deal at all if it was in the same context as what I'm talking about. I see what you're saying.

I feel more normal about the whole situation now. It was just weird being cut off like that after 13 years. I just didn't like the whole "I can't trust you with her" thing when there was no reasoning at all for concern. I think I was reading too much into the whole thing. My wife asked me to take a towel to our daughter last night. (they were all in the dryer) So it's not like she's totally paranoid about me. I guess she assumed I would walk it in to her (our daughter) but I just handed the towel through the door without even going in or looking. A small thing but it did give me the assurance that I was still trusted as a co-parent.

It's just another stage in her growing up I suppose and I was reading more into it than what there was. My wife apparently is always thinking ahead and was just trying to ease our daughter into the transition of being more grown up.

#23 kansas

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Posted November 01 2008 - 02:43 PM

aw that makes sense
aha co parent
it's okay
you'll still have a bond with her
just things get weird i guess
the thought of a mom seeing her naked sonn and like washing his hair and stuff would seemmm weirddd
either way im glad you feel better about the situation
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#24 OldTroll

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Posted November 01 2008 - 05:08 PM

Let me just ask you one question and be totally honest when you answer. How would you feel if you had a son and the roles were reversed with your wife and him? If you would feel totally comfortable about her being alone with him and doing things for him naked, then I'd say it's OK for you to do the same with your daughter.

Well said. I honestly don't think it would be a big deal at all if it was in the same context as what I'm talking about. I see what you're saying.

I feel more normal about the whole situation now. It was just weird being cut off like that after 13 years. I just didn't like the whole "I can't trust you with her" thing when there was no reasoning at all for concern. I think I was reading too much into the whole thing. My wife asked me to take a towel to our daughter last night. (they were all in the dryer) So it's not like she's totally paranoid about me. I guess she assumed I would walk it in to her (our daughter) but I just handed the towel through the door without even going in or looking. A small thing but it did give me the assurance that I was still trusted as a co-parent.

It's just another stage in her growing up I suppose and I was reading more into it than what there was. My wife apparently is always thinking ahead and was just trying to ease our daughter into the transition of being more grown up.


LastC5 - - mugface may have read your “one question” …. but he sure as hell has no idea of what you are asking him to consider.

My personal opinion is that when a dad becomes sexually attracted to his pubescent daughter he will look really hard for anything that will give him permission to feel those feelings … and several of these responses are giving him that permission.

My unasked for advice for mugface is to stop being alone with your nude daughter ever! With your age and experience you surely know how explosive sex can be ….. 0 to 100 in an instant. Please do not tempt fate …. there may be some bad karma lurking and waiting for an excuse. BE CAREFUL please!

NOTE: I am in no way implying that mugface has even the slightest thought of actually making any sexual contact with his daughter.

Speaking from experience. About 30 years ago I had a 13 y.o. step-daughter … if I tried to describe to describe her here it would give an erection for sure … that appealed more and more as grew breasts, a waist, etc.

Once when I picked up some of her school books a sketch that she had drawn fell out … a guy lying next to a really tall box or cliff or something, on his back with an erection a long as he was tall … straight up in the air … and a girl with hair just like my SD’s jumping off of the cliff with wide spread legs.

That’s when it hit me really hard. I wanted her to learn about sex from an experienced, loving person and not from some kid in the back seat of his parents car. But, I absolutely for sure knew that I could not allow myself to come anywhere close to acting on this desire. You cannot imagine how guilty I felt for even thinking it.

I tried some reading to ease my guilt, but the main thing that has allowed me to deal with it is just plain old tincture of time. A few years ago the guilt had finally evaporated. It helped that I had finally learned to accept myself, complete with all of my flaws.

Be safe!

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#25 kansas

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Posted November 01 2008 - 05:20 PM

oh my god
ahaha
i dont think hes like that dude at all
your going to make him regret writing this
i think step daughter and actual daughter is different
i know some very god like people that are very capable of not thinking those thoughts no matter how tempting it may be they just never come up
especially born nudists ( i dont really know what i mean by that) you know people that are born knowing the point of nudism and living innocently and godlike you know?
maybe im just naive i dont know much about men but id like to think that there are some with pure hearts
or... something.
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#26 OldTroll

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Posted November 01 2008 - 06:03 PM

i think step daughter and actual daughter is different

i know some very god like people that are very capable of not thinking those thoughts no matter how tempting it may be they just never come up
especially born nudists ( i dont really know what i mean by that) you know people that are born knowing the point of nudism and living innocently and godlike you know?

Kansas - - My SD had been with me since she was 23 months old. In ‘87 a ob/gyn guy handed my first born to a delivery nurse who turned and handed him to me. The very first time I had ever held a child younger than about 18 months. I was a full-time Mr. Mom to this one and another that arrived 13 months later. I love my two sons more than life itself, but I really do not think that I loved my S.D. any less than my natural born sons.

You must have a very pure soul to believe that there are “god like people that are very capable of not thinking those thoughts.”

As for “born nudist” (I think that I know what you mean with the term) I also know from experience that it isn’t long for even a relatively noobie nudist to become jaded with nude bodies …. of either gender. But. no matter how jaded one gets with nudity in this setting, there are hundreds (thousands?) of more subtle sexual attractants.

A one on one situation …. handling her hair while she is wet and nude …. knowing that there is total privacy …. very very risky IMO.

mugface may very well be a godlike saint who has never had an inappropriate thought in his entire life. I certainly hope that he is just that.

Have fun, play safely, and maintain your innocence as long as possible!

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#27 mugface

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Posted November 01 2008 - 07:10 PM

LastC5 - -
My personal opinion is that when a dad becomes sexually attracted to his pubescent daughter he will look really hard for anything that will give him permission to feel those feelings … and several of these responses are giving him that permission.

My unasked for advice for mugface is to stop being alone with your nude daughter ever!


You're not giving me unasked for advice. I was hoping for brutal honesty. I think I've gathered 2 pieces of general advice here.

#1 You're not weird if you don't think nudity is perfectly fine in a common setting.

#2 Be careful about unintended consequences of nudity between different sexes or the appearance of wrong doing.

No, I don't think there's any danger of me crossing any lines, but maybe you're right. I'll tell you straight up that she's very pretty. That's not just a father's biased opinion. But, she is my daughter and I would die before I let anyone including myself take her innocence from her.

That's what I finally came to realize. I don't find girls her age sexually attractive, but what about when she's 17, 18? Yeah, it's better to cut it out before it gets iffy. Good advice my friend.

#28 OldTroll

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Posted November 01 2008 - 07:24 PM

You're not giving me unasked for advice. I was hoping for brutal honesty. I think I've gathered 2 pieces of general advice here.

#1 You're not weird if you don't think nudity is perfectly fine in a common setting.

#2 Be careful about unintended consequences of nudity between different sexes or the appearance of wrong doing.

No, I don't think there's any danger of me crossing any lines, but maybe you're right. I'll tell you straight up that she's very pretty. That's not just a father's biased opinion. But, she is my daughter and I would die before I let anyone including myself take her innocence from her.

That's what I finally came to realize. I don't find girls her age sexually attractive, but what about when she's 17, 18? Yeah, it's better to cut it out before it gets iffy. Good advice my friend.

I highly approve of your attitude Mr. Mugface.

More unasked for advice: Enjoy every moment you can with her ... and then do your best to create even more opportunities for sharing and being together. Time flies now like you won't believe .... and she will never transform from a child to a young woman to an adult lady again! Don't miss a minute of it!

The change is as dramatic as the change from babyhood to puberty!



Have fun and play safely!

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#29 kansas

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Posted November 02 2008 - 05:06 PM

::D
hooray!
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#30 mugface

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Posted November 02 2008 - 07:54 PM

What's really sad is that you can't have these discussion in real life. I personally feel I'm completely stable and have a very healthy father/daughter relationship, yet if I tried to breech the question of "is it weird to still see my teenage daughter nude" at church I wonder if I'd be taken out and stoned. No, not really but I'm sure that the response wouldn't be open or honest.

I'm most appreciative to OldTroll for his brutal honesty in describing what he went through. How else would someone else learn without going through the same unless he could find a mentor?