The Dissociatives Guide!

I've recently come to find that dissociatives are among my favorite class of drugs, the other being psychedelics. They need a thread where people can talk about them and come to better understand the way they affect the mind and how and why they're in their own class.

First and foremost it's important to understand that dissociatives are not psychedelics. Definitions from Wiki:

"A dissociative is a drug which reduces (or blocks) signals to the conscious mind from other parts of the brain, typically, but not necessarily, limited to the senses. Such a state of sensory deprivation and dissociation can facilitate self-exploration, hallucinations, and dreamlike states of mind which may resemble some psychedelic mindstates."

[not from wiki]
Most dissociatives work by antagonizing (blocking) the N-methyl d-aspartate (NMDA) receptors. They're located at the end of dendrites on a neuron cell. The dendrites send messages to another neuron through these, but when a drug that blocks the NMDA activity is taken, they are partially or entirely blocked, causing a state of dissociation in the user.
[/not from wiki]

"Psychedelic drugs are psychoactive drugs whose primary action is to alter the thought processes of the brain and perception of the mind. The term is derived from the Greek words ψυχή (psyche, "mind") and δηλείν (delein, "to manifest"), translating to "mind-manifesting." The implication is that the psychedelic drugs can access and develop unused potentials of the human mind"

It's hard to explain the effects really. Even listing Erowd's effects isn't really gonna work. So clicking on the drug name will take you to it's page on Erowid, from there you can explore trip reports, effects, and most of what you'll need.

That being said, heres a list of common dissociatves:

Dextromethorphan [DXM]
Dextrophan (metabolite of DXM) [DXO]
Ketamine [Special K, K]
Phenylcyclohexylpiperidine [PCP, Angel Dust, Wet]
Nitrous Oxide [Laughing Gas, N20]
Salvia Divinorum [Diviner's Sage, Sally D, Salvia]

less common, newly emerging, or exotic dissociatives

4-methoxy-phenylcyclohexylpiperidine [4-MeO-PCP]

WARNING - Some dissociatives are highly neurotoxic. Other drugs are neurotoxic as well that you probably didn't realize. Such as alcohol, barbituates, cocaine, and amphetamine.
Neurotoxic Drug
Onley's Lesions
Neurotoxicity

-In my experiences, and in the experiences of others, this can be greatly decreased by megadosing on Vitamin C 20-30 minutes before drug administration (4 grams). This will lend you protection for 2-3 hours, after that you'll need to dose 3+ grams again. Careful, megadosing vitamin C too often can lead to kidney stones, and will not protect against the entirety of the neurotoxicity

Warning 2:The lethal doseages are estimates based on actual deaths and what I've read. YOUR lethal dose may be less or more then what's listed. The lethal dose for EVERYONE will be different and can be extremely varied. When I say extremely varied I mean someone might die from 3 grams of ketamine, and someone else might die from 15.

Information on what's listed --

Dextromethorphan [DXM]
Dose: 200-1,000+mg (oral)
Duration: 4-8 hours (depending on dose)
Onset:40-60 minutes (oral)
Pharmacology:DXM is absorbed by the gastrointestinal tract after being converted mostly to DXO, it then crosses the blood-brain barrier. It has been known to act as an agonist for Sigma 1 & 2 receptors. An antagonist for NMDA and certain nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (blocks nicotine addiction), a serotonin releaser, and dopamine and NADPH oxidase inhibitors.
Places to Obtain: Any pharmacy (CVS, Walgreens, Rite Aid), Most general stores (Wal-mart, K2, Krausers, Target), can also be found in bulk powder form rarely.
Cost: $3-$6 per box/bottle
BRAND NAMES and amount of DXM per pill/mL
Robitussin long-acting - 360mg/4oz bottle | 720mg/8oz bottle
Robitussin Cough Gels - 300mg per 20 pill bottle
Delsym - 540mg/3oz bottle | 900mg/5oz bottle (contains DXM Polistirex (DXM HBr wrapped in a type of edible plastic), longer acting and less potent than DXM HBr)

Of course, generic brand will be sitting right next to these. Except Delsym.

Warnings: MOST DXM-containing products have other drugs in them. Find something with ONLY Dextromethorphan HBr listed as the active ingredient. Drugs such as Paracetamol, Psuedoephedrine, Guaifenisen, Doxylamine succinate, Chlorophenamine Maleate, etc can cause damage to the body in high doses, or kill you. This is serious business. Being dead sucks. The user will feel messed up the day after using DXM. There's conflicting evidence on whether or not DXM is neurotoxic or neuroprotective. People are saying it's neuroprotective, but a lot of research is inconclusive about it. It MAY be neurotoxic as other dissociatives are. It may not. With my personal feelings compared to other dissociatives like ketamine, DXM is not nearly as dangerous or as bad for your brain. SSRI's: DXM has serotonin reuptake inhibitor action. Combining too much while taking an SSRI can cause serotonin syndrome. I've been reading on a few forums that a decent dose (500-700mg) is alright on Lexapro (Escitalopram) but take that with a grain of salt. I'm not responsible if you poison yourself. DXM and Prozac 1(INSANE shit).DXM and Prozac 2
Lethal Dose: Around 3,000mg (average guy) due to respitory failure
Notes: Some people have been known to dose 2,000+mg a day for extended periods of time (addiction) and live. DXM causes serious constipation for some people (high doses 600+mg?). This seems to lighten after a few times uses. I've tried intramuscular injection and have found basically the same effects as oral at ~300mg I.M.. Not worth the trouble. Needs ethanol to dissolve into injectable amounts (>10mL). Also causes quite a bad headache for a few days after. Very probable brain damage when injected. A very bad choice for administration.
History:Approved for use in 1958. Dextromethorphan is the dextrorotary enantiomer of the methyl ether of levorphanol. In layman's terms it's a derivative of a strong opiate. It's also a steroeisomer of levomethorphan, another opiate. It's amusing to think the racemic dl-methorphan would be an opiate and a dissociatve. DXM was synthesized in the search for a cough suppressant that was less addictive and abuseable than the current codeine. Funny, because it's a lot better than codeine.

Ketamine [Special K, K]
Dose: 50-150mg(intramuscular/insufflated)
Duration:Insufflated: 1-2 hours, Intramuscular: 60 minutes
Onset:5 minutes (intramuscular), 5-10 minutes (insufflated)
Pharmacology:Ketamine is a non-competitive NMDA receptor antagonist (as all dissociatives). This activity is responsible for the analgesic effects. It also binds to mu opioid and sigma receptors at high doses (150mg+, anesthetic doses). Ketamine is also a non-competitive inhibitor of the sigma-7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptor.
Places to Obtain:Online underground, the streets
Cost:Generally $20-30 per 500mg. Price goes down with more
Warnings:Ketamine can be found in sealed vials from online suppliers, and usually on the streets in powder form. Finding it on the streets means it can be cut and impure, but usually it isn't. As with ALL dissociatves, ketamine is a neurotoxic drug. Neurotoxicity is serious and can cause permanent brain damage with a lot of use. In my ketamine use I have noticed an extreme, persistent depression. It lasts a week or more depending on how much I used (100-200mg a week over 2 nights). I am naturally depressed, but ketamine worsens it TEN FOLD. By FAR the most neurotoxic drug I have ever come across.
Lethal Dose:4.5-5.5 Grams (4,500-5,500mg)
Notes:Chances are you would pass out LONG before you could administer yourself a lethal dose of ketamine. Even by injection it would require many, many injections. Neurotoxicity can be subdued or prevented (in low doses) completely by megadosing vitamin C beforehand (4 grams).
History:Developed in 1962. Ketamine was synthesized in the search to find a safer alternative to PCP. PCP's half-life, neurotoxicity, and potential to cause seizures was cause for concern. Ketamine is closely related to PCP in chemical structure.

Phenylcyclohexylpiperidine [PCP, Angel Dust, Wet]
Dose:5-10mg (oral), Dipped cigarettes can be smoked until the desired effect is reached
Duration:4-6 hours
Onset:30-40 minutes (oral), 5 minutes (smoked)
Pharmacology:Inhibits depolarization of neurons (NMDA blocking) and interferes with cognitive and other CNS functions. Inhibits nAChR (nicotinic acetylcholine receptors) channels as other dissociatives do. Some analogs of PCP affect nAChR channels more than NMDA, and some analogs affect these equally to produce synergistic effects that dampen excitatory activity of neurons. The psychotic effects of PCP are produced by its action on the DA-2 receptor (presynaptic dopamine). The immunity to pain is produced by its action on the endorphin and enkephalin receptors. PCP is metabolized into PCHP, PPC, and PCAA.
Places to Obtain:Used to be a pharmaceutical painkiller, now it can only be rarely found on the streets. I have yet to find a supplier that carries PCP, or anyone selling it. Even more rarely is it found on weed.
Cost:$10-15 for a cigarette dipped in liquid PCP
Warnings:PCP is WELL known for causing violent, unpredictable behavior in people who've taken high doses. It's also well known for making the user impervious to pain. Again, it's neurotoxic, but many feel PCP is the most highly neurotoxic of all recreational dissociatves. The user will feel messed up for probably the next day after use. PCP is also considered the most intense and heaviest dissociatve. Another name for PCP is 'embalming fluid'. PCP is NOT embalming fluid. That's formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is carcinogenic (causes cancer) to smoke and generally really, really bad. A horrible slang term for a drug.
Lethal Dose:A few sources say its around 3,100mg. That seems awfully high for something that will have you out of your mind at 10-15mg.
Notes:I'm not happy with what I found on the lethal dose of PCP, but I'll leave it for now. PCP is a poorly understood drug. It has a unbelievably spanned effects on the CNS and mind and much of the way it affects one's mind is not understood.
History:Developed in 1926. Used as an anesthetic in in WWI, but was withdrawn due to side-effects. Came back in 1963 under the name Sernyl but was withdrawn again within 2 years due to bad side-effects. Marketed again as Sernylan in 1967 as a veterinary anesthetic, but again withdrawn because of side effects.

Nitrous Oxide [Laughing Gas, N20]
Dose:1-2 chargers
Duration:60-90 seconds from one charger. More can be inhaled to keep the high going
Onset: 5-10 seconds (inhaled)
Pharmacology:Nitrous is used in dentistry. However, almost none of the gas is actually absorbed by the inhaler, and exhaled N20 produces a high intoxication hazard for the dentist if the room is not highly ventilated. Nitrous acts in ways not similar to other dissociatives. It antagonizes NMDA but also acts weakly on GABA systems. Its a successful anxiolytic (calming agent) at low doses and benzodiazepine reversing drugs seem to stop that action. Nitrous also acts on opioid receptors. Those tolerant to the pain-killing effects of morphine will also be tolerant to Nitrous analgesia. It even affects noradrenergic systems.
Places to Obtain:Online, simply search N20 chargers or Nitrous charger. Also, in some specialty grocery stores (Wegman's)
Cost:$12-20 for a box of 24 8 ounces chargers
Warnings:Nitrous use requires 'crackers', which can be found on eBay. Inhaling directly out of the charger will give your insides frostbite. The charger is placed in the cracker, it's screwed tight, a balloon is placed over the end with the hole, and it is unscrewed slightly to release the N20. It is then inhaled from the balloon. Much more expensive whipped cream cans can be purchased for around 50 bucks. It is released into the can by the same method (cracker is attached) and it can be inhaled directly out of the can.
Lethal Dose:Continuous inhalation without oxygen will cause the user to pass out or suffocate and pass out. If the user continues to get no oxygen while they are passed out, and only Nitrous, they will die from suffocation.
Notes:The gas is EXTREMELY cold when it decompresses out of the charger. Do not come in contact with it until it's in the balloon. It can and will cause frostbite instantaneously.
History:Nitrous was first invented in 1775. It is a greenhouse gas and extremely destructive to the ozone layer. It's the same stuff in NOS systems in racing vehicles. Though Sulfer Dioxide is added so that cannot be inhaled. Nitrous Oxide occurs naturally.

4-methoxy-phenylcyclohexylpiperidine [4-MeO-PCP]
Dose: ~200mg's (oral, good dose)
Duration:3-4 hours
Onset: 30-40 minutes
Pharmacology:Not well known as of yet. Reserach suggests it is metabolized very differently than PCP,
Places to Obtain:Extremely rare online, but it's beginning to emerge slowly.
Cost:Dependent on source, average $40 for 500mg
Warnings:Not much is known about 4-MeO-PCP. I found a thread a bluelight about it: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=391328 but that's about it. It is said to have the same profile as PCP, but with slight variations.
Lethal Dose:Around 4,500mg based on the PCP lethal dose
Notes:Very new and nearly non-existent. Said to be less neurotoxic than PCP, have a shorter half life, and be 70% as potent by weight (proven false by experience). A lot of people are saying it's stronger than K in feel, but not as lengthy or as strong as PCP itself. A 'clean' high. Cleaner than K. Must be awesome. People seem to ingest around 200mg's orally for a good trip
History:First appeaered in Q3 2008. Very new, and not well understood.

Salvia Divinorum [Diviner's Sage, Sally D, Salvia]
Dose:.5g (smoked, non-extract), a pinch (10x-20x extract) | 30g fresh/6g dried natural leaves sublingually for an an average trip
Duration:10-15 minutes (smoked), 20-90 minutes (sublingual)
Onset:10 seconds (smoked), 10-20 minutes (sublingual)
Pharmacology:The effects of smoked Salvia Divinorum come primarily from Salvinorin A. It is a potent, selective kappa-opioid receptor agonist. The only known compound to induce visionary states with this method. It is also the most potent naturally occuring 'psychedelic'. With doses starting at 200ug.
Places to Obtain:Online shops. [www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com, and others]
Cost:$15/g 10x standardized, $12/oz natural foliage (from BBB, listed above)
Warnings:Salvia is sold in extracts up to 80x. This is extremely unnecessary. Try starting out with 10x extract. Maybe 20x, or even natural foliage. Salvia has EXTREME reverse tolerance. You may find a good dose and within an hour, smoke that same dose again and black out. Be weary.
Lethal Dose:Not known. You'd pass out before being able to inhale a dangerous dose, not to mention you probably wouldn't be able to keep smoking it anyway. It's VERY intense. Salvinorin is not well absorbed when taken orally.
Notes:Salvia is an extremely intense dissociative psychedelic. The effects will slam you in the face and many find them to be highly unpleasant. However there are many who love Salvia. Smoked Salvia induces a heavy trip which can cause the user to go through ego death quite easily (with 10x+ extracts) and into a powerful dissociated state. Be ready for one of the most intense rides of your life. It must be smoked while applying the flame directly to the material in order to release as much Salvinorin A as possible. Preferably used in a water pipe or bong as the smoke is very hot and harsh otherwise.
History:Salvia has been used for centuries by indigenous people of Oaxaca called the Mazatec. Their shamans have used it in healing and divination ceremonies. As a sage, it is also used medicinally for a number of ailments. First recorded in 1939 by Jean Basset Johnson. It wasn't until the 1990's that the active component (in this case, not an alkaloid) Salvinorins A, B, and C were discovered.

Harm reduction for the win. Suggestions are welcome. Hopefully this will get stickied somewhere.

 

ok
i would prefer a guide that discussed the many effects and how they are different, but also how they are the same (all being dissociatives)

 

This is a good harm reduction guide. I felt that explaining the effects is pointless. it's hard to explain the effects of dissociatves. The feelings and emotions invoked by DXM and Ketamine....just hard to explain. =/

 

but a harm reduction guide should go through possible dangers, lethal dosages, circumstances of hospitalisation, discomforts that might be felt, time of onset for the drug, etc

 

Thread still needs some work as the last comment refers to. Looking good so far.

 

Awesome, very informative.

 

^ Thank you

 

Updated. Keep the suggestions comin'. This is gonna be an awesome guide.

 

you forgot salvia, its a dissociative too. and not all of the dissociatives cause brain damage.

dxm actually has some neuroprotective properties. and im pretty sure they said you cant get onley's legions from oral dxm use.
other than that id say its a pretty cool thread. the dissociatives are my favorite drug class too. they have aspects of all the other drug classes id say, while being superior at it too. like, id say they can give better stimulation than the classical uppers, provide better pain relief than classic pain relievers, and whatever.

 

Salvia isn't an NMDA receptor antagonist. At least I don't think. It has dissociatve properties, but it's quite different than classic dissociatves. By that logic Ibogaine is also a dissociatve. Salvia and Ibogaine and dissociatve psychedelics.

Where did you read DXM was neuroprotective? Every other NMDA antagonist causes brain damage with extended use or high doses. It causes Onley's lesions in rats. That's a good start.

 

they said it caused onleys legions in rats only through injection, and only at doses exceeding the anesthetic doses, which itself is higher than the recreational doses. and ive heard a lot about dxm and NMDA receptor antagonists being neuroprotective. it prevents cell deaths due to over excitation and stuff. google it.

as for salvia, just cause it doesnt affect the nmda receptors, its still a dissociative. its actually a dissociative opioid since it acts on the kappa-opioid receptors. but i mean come on, thats all irrelavent. its affects are dissociative; complete dissociation is what insuces the psychedelia in my opinion. all of the dissociatives you listed can be classified as dissociative psychedelics. so, to be a real dissociative guide, include them all. if you dont add salvia because its not an nmda antagonist, it be like excluding a standard psychedelic from a psychedelic guide because one is a tryptamine and the others are phenethylamines or something like that. know what im trying to say?

 

this was a very good read. the stuff about the new pcp analogue is interesting. and i'm pretty sure moomooman is correct about DXM being neuroprotective. I read it on the dextroverse somewhere.

sort-of agree with salvia being a dissociative, its more like a dissociative-psychedelic in its own class of mindfuck.

 

Yeah. I listed the classic dissociatves that all have similar effects. Salvia is absolutely nothing close to the rest of them. It's a complete blow-your-brains-out mindfuck. It belongs inb a psychedelic guide more than dissociatve

 

gorgous pic

would pot be considered a dissociative, it can kind of be like DXM

 

Weed doesn't do what dissociatives do.

 

weed definitely is not a dissociative. but as for the salvia thing, i will agree with you its a level above the others most of the time. but ketamine can take you to the same place too sometimes, even dxm in high enough doses. ive had salvia trips from dxm more than a few times. although the difference is that when i get there with dxm, i kinda gotta make it work sometimes, like i travel there willingly, or am allowed to access it after being in that state. and with the salvia, it'll literally push you to that place. so i see where your coming from, but i still think that they could all be labled psychedelic dissociatives, so might as well throw salvia in there. just to make the guide that much better. you could take it from the lighter side of dissociates all the way to the far extreme of the salvia dissociation. for me, at the high doses, the term dissociative doesnt suit them anymore. you get so dissociated from yourself, that you start to find yourself reassociating with something else, so i call them reassociatives.

 

i'd love to try some 4-meo-pcp, i'd trade someone a ketamine source for a 4-meo-pcp source? pm me.

 

theres actually all kinds of pcp analogues out there. they will just be sold as pcp you know, cause i mean the drug dealers arent gunna know exactly what kind it is. so just shop around for some pcp deals, maybe you'll get lucky and get 4-meo-pcp.

 

There all kinds of anaglogs for everything. But I've only ever seen one for sale for PCP, and that was 4-MeO-PCP

 

was it marketed as 4-meo-pcp? cause i know in the pcp game, theres like over 20 analogues of it. they just sell it as pcp. i cant wait till i get my degree in chemistry, im gunna do so many experiments on myself.