Should All Schools Be Mandated To Teach Creationism?

As lovely as that is," I am in the universe and the universe is in me," it is synonymous to saying I and my father, (creator,) are one.

 

I disagree. Nature and evolution created humans, so unless you consider those things to be our "father(s)", then it should be obvious to you that our existence is antonymous with the idea of a "creator", in the religious sense.

[media]http://youtu.be/5Jf-uQQnEyw[/media]

 

The saying is call no man your father. We are created, fathered, in the stars which is the reason we can become stars.

 

That's almost exactly what I said. We ARE created, but not by some mythical deity or deities. The stars created life, life evolved and became more complex and intelligent, humans evolved from great apes(humans are both the greatest and worst of the great apes, imo), then our parents created us. I never said we weren't created; I simply said we weren't created by a figment, or figments, of our imagination.

If you wanna refer to nature as "creationism", be my guest. It may even consider nature to be "creationism", but just not in the religious sense, but "creationism" in the sense that we were created by nature, but I wouldn't refer to nature as "creationism", so as to avoid any confusion.

 

The reason is that it is almost exactly as you said is because they are synonymous sayings in content regardless their form. There has been what has been taught and there is that which is yet to learn. A wise man takes from his stores some of what is old and some of what is new. I think creationism if taught should be taught in a way that is demonstrably identifiable. Belief is belief and beliefs can argue with one another, they don't affect what is real. Knowledge is being shared and since being is ongoing we can expect to make revisions as we learn of each other.

 

Religion is a large part of human history, so it is in that regard alone already something that kids should learn about in school. It can be part of some subject/class that also involves anthropology or something, but to say religion shouldn't be part of the equation in any way just because you dislike religion is nonsense. It is very good to learn about the basic ideas and history of several religions (just like other ideologies) and their differences somewhere in high school. I'm not sure what you are thinking of when you think religion class but it definitely can be educational and meaningful.

 

religion is also taught in many homes so there are bound to be questions on that level

A proportionate way to access education is to teach what you know and learn what you care to.

Many secular subjects are designed to provide a functional fit for a certain economic model so prejudice is built in.

 

Except beliefs do affect what is real. Probably not in the sense you're talking about, but beliefs start wars, promote bigotry and sexism, and, just as an example, the Bible says that it's okay to murder your children if they disobey/dishonor you. I mean.......what the fuck kind of shit is that? Sure, that was in the old testament, but in Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus says “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." To me, that translates to mean that EVERYTHING in the Old Testament is to be upheld, including being allowed to murder your children, as I mentioned before, being allowed to murder your wife if you discover that she wasn't a virgin before the wedding, and it even says to murder ANYONE who doesn't believe in the christian god(this specifically includes your family members and friends). The New Testament even mentions that women aren't allowed to speak in church and, if they have any questions, they have to ask their husbands at home. To top it off, most christians don't even know they're not supposed to eat pork, wear clothing that is woven from multiple types of fabrics, plant different kings of seeds in the same garden, and so on.

So yeah...........even if the christian/jewish(I'm not including muslims in this, as this post is about the old and new testament) was real, I wouldn't lower myself to worship that sexist, murderous, brutal, selfish, vain, tyrannical piece of shit.

 

It is not really a christian belief to kill your wife, it is not teached and it is not practised. It is just a line in their almost 2000 year old holy book. Is it fucked up? Should they remove it?I don't know. Maybe if we would still live in a society where people would act on that belief but as it seems your religious fellow humans are far more reasonable than you give them credit for

 

I actually agree with you, to an extent. The problem is that the teachers would be teaching about christianity, and no other religion. If they teach students about one religion, they should teach them about ALL major religions, as well as some of the more obscure and ancient religions. I mean, it's just not fair. What if there is a muslim or hindu student in a class where christianity is being forced down their throats.

I also agree with you on the fact that religion is a huge part of human history, but it shouldn't be taught as "fact", imo. Indoctrination, whether at school or home or anywhere else is wrong, plain and simple. Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, for example, are agnostic atheists, but here is a quote from Angelina Jolie: "Brad and I are raising our children to respect everyone. We have a bookshelf in the house that has the Bible, the Torah, the Koran, everything. We will take our children to church, temple, Buddhist ceremonies, Mosques, teaching them about all faiths. Whatever religion they choose, the choice will be theirs". I think that's awesome, and that's what I'm talking about..........children shouldn't just be exposed to ONE religion, but, as I said previously, ALL major religions, then they can find the religion that works best for them, if any religion at all.

 

That's another point I need to make. Christians today(especially western and European christians, pick and choose the parts of the bible they want to follow, and completely ignore the rest. If you're gonna follow your religious scripture, then you should follow ALL of the scripture, instead of cherry-picking(I hate that term, but that's what christians do, and you know it).

This is a good example of "cherry-picking", or maybe just ignorance(or both):

 

You are correct we always choose with a guide. The way we can honestly assess our beliefs within the miasma of subjectivity is to observe how they affect the world or our experience of it. Reality supports it's constituents. If you find that you have fight to preserve a sense of rightness then it is vulnerable in fact and not right. Obviously there are many superstitions which lead to irrational actions but it is because reality is consistent that we can change our mind.and thus react/act differently, everything we do arising in conception.

You are well served not to believe in sexist murderous assholes and it serves us best to believe in innocence meaning harmlessness. To see the world and or it's constituents a threat is to refuse to accept it and thus not regard it with attention or come to a sounder understanding.

 

Religious theories should not be taught as fact of course, but that is not even done on the average dutch christian highschool (or dutch equivalent of an american high school). They do teach evolution by the way (as I see in tyronswood post catholic schools already did since the sixties)

 

The main thing is inconsistency of premises and lack of logical progression.

You can take a single fundamental premise and hold your interpretation of various aspects to that standard.

For example by this they shall know you are my disciples that you love one another.A singular distinguishing feature, a standard metric. If your interpretation puts you at enmity with others then it is a false standard on the basis of the standard description.

 

Well, you already made that point in another thread about religion. I was meaning to come back to you there about exact that point. I find it utterly bogus to demand or proclaim a follower of a religion should accept and belief everything that comes with that religion in order to be perceived as a proper follower (and by who, by you no less ). That's hilarious. Too bad I am getting stoned now. I really get bad at wording things well, especially about these philosophical subjects (we would be getting off topic anyway, as this thread is about a specific subject! ). I'll come back to it in the right thread! But really, how is pick and choose the things that make sense to you not better than simply accept all that is written because someone is... a christian. We are all individuals in the first place. Didn't you just speak out about indoctrination in another post here.

 

Is this a personal insult? I can't tell. lol

Do you honestly believe that if a person is a christian, they shouldn't follow the bible, both OT and NT, to the letter? I suppose that would be impossible though, with all of the contradictions and whatnot. It's so ridiculous that it would be funny, if it didn't cause so many people to treat eachother in such negative/dangerous/deadly ways.

The ironic thing is that the christians, jews, and muslims all worship the Abrahamic god, and they kill eachother over who worships/follows their god in the "correct" way.

And yes, I did speak out against indoctrination. The main point of my last few posts is that if you're gonna follow a religion, follow it with every part of your being, but, as I said earlier in this post, that would be impossible with all of the contradictions. I mean, there are even different sects of christianity and islam who kill eachother over their different interpretations of the bible. The same goes for muslims and their different interpretations of the qur'an. It's sad, and it's an undeniable fact that religion has done more harm than good. It sickens me.

BTW, all of this is relevant to the OP, because teaching creationism in school is indoctrination and brainwashing. And you KNOW different teachers would teach different interpretations of the bible too, leaving the children confused. I don't think religious creationism should be taught in schools; especially if it's ONLY christianity that's being taught, and no other religions. If religion is taught in school, atheist theories and evolution should also be taught in the very same classes. I didn't even know what evolution was when I was in high school, believe it or not. They didn't teach me religion, thank FSM, but evolution should definitely be taught to all children/students, and they should know that humans are actually great apes.

 

Seriously, an English lesson??

you do know I'm usually the one harping on contextual definitions and all that crap, don't you?
You also understand what intrinsic proofs are, don't you?

I entered this fray on the point of defining faith and my contention was/is that the commonly accepted definition of religious faith does not coincide with the manner in which faith is dealt with in the actual text of the Bible, not about what should or should not be taught.

I will find some examples and forward them via PM as our discussion is far off the OP.

 

I do not mind if religion is taught in school, but only if it is taught strictly as mythology or as part of a multiple religious studies class where no single religion is singled out to be taught above others.

An actual religious class, invoking deities and other such nonsense, should only be taught in school at the private level.

 

Eggzakly!

 

Such studies are in fact partially and legitimately funded in state institutions.