Beyond Earth's Solar System

Discussion in 'The Future' started by themnax, Aug 25, 2015.

  1. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

    if humanity, ventures beyond earth's solar system, with the same arrogant attitude, as exemplified, by america's foreign economic policy, with which europe set sail, less then 700 years ago, to "discover" the western hemisphere, and the rest of our planet, that the universe and everything in it, is somehow ours for the taking, let me put it this way: "god", will NOT be, "on our side".

    the rest of the universe, which may stretch to infinity and beyond, is there to discover, certainly, but it is NOT there, to be ours to take.

    bigger, badder, older, more advanced and more powerful civilizations, then anything we can even begin to imagine, we will find, have long since learned to coexist, in cooperation with each other, to protect themselves, from just such evil, as we, with such an attitude, would represent.

    don't EVEN imagine, that our technology to get us there, when and if, we should happen to develop it, would dazzle a universe unoccupied, or less advanced then ourselves, but rather it would be, more like a band of south american tribesmen, from several hundred years ago, in one small canoe, 'discovering' modern day new york, london, or paris.

    (the analogy of an ant, crawling up an elephants leg, with rape on its mind, suggests itself)

    i'm sorry but i belive in a god, or whatever else may happen to exist, that is NOT on the side, of the euro-american attitude, that, we, as humans of planet earth, are any more the end all and be all of existence, then our earth is flat, or the center of anything.
  2. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam Senior Member

    Certainly paints quite the mental image...

    It would be disappointing if the traveller's went there just looking to take over but assuming there is no turning back from their trip, I think it would be reasonable to suspect them to have some sort of purpose or agenda on such a journey. This hypothetical will not be realized in our lifetime though so I'm not too concerned about it.
  3. good thing God doesn't exist

    You seem to constantly forget that we too are animals. And as such compete for survival in which ever environment suits us
  4. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    First see if we encounter any other life (intelligent or not) out there. As long as that is not the case why is everything that is to discover (in regards to resources) not ours to take?

    Don't apologize for that :p
    1 person likes this.
  5. I used to think about the likelihood of life on other planets outside our solar system. If you think about the universe as being a multitude of galaxies you might then reason that there must be life on some other planet or planets, however distant. We may never discover it, but it seems so unlikely that we are totally alone in the universe.
    1 person likes this.
  6. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam Senior Member

    I think it's safe to say that within the next few centuries, if not millenia, chances are better that life from beyond our solar system visits us, rather than we go to them. If their evolutionary development is even remotely similar, I suspect they could fuck shit up if they had the capabilities to travel such distances.
  7. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Even if we get to explore outside of the solar system and if there's lots of extraterrestrial life, there still is a big chance we don't run into them for centuries. So happy asteroid and planet harvesting I would say.
  8. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

    while not likely in my personal lifetime, being as i'm already 67 now, but in the lifetime of someone who has just learned how to turn on a computer and gotten themselves an account on hip forums, its not that inconceivable that a human occupied craft will make the ten or twenty year at near light speed trek, to one of the 30 or 40 nearby other solar systems. (its even not inconceiveable that within their lifetime a way or ways will have been not only found but implemented, to cheat the lightspeed barrier, or even discover that there might not be one). the odds are actually quite good, for most stars we see, including the closest ones, to have at least one planet in their goldylocks zone, and a very reasonable likelyhood that most of those will have at least the beginnings of some kind of life. role of the dice of course, how advanced that life might be, but it is reasonable to assume, that IF we reach a world that does have sapient life, indipendently evolved on it, as of course it will be, that there's just as good a chance, they'll be ahead of us as behind.

    morally i believe it was a major error for 15th century europe, to assume the western hemisphere was theirs for the taking. i don't believe its reasonable to assume, that luck, or 'god' will always be, on 'our' side.
    the implications aren't limited to what might happen then, but are also an analog of moral questions our egos motivate us to misinterpret now as well.
  9. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam Senior Member

    Barring a significant fundamental shift in physics such as discovering there is no light speed and finding a practical way to circumvent that supposed barrier, it seems improbable that anyone currently alive will reach another star's planets.

    This is to the closest star...

    So even if we are able to cut that travel speed in half or more, we're still realistically talking about several thousands of years to get to the closest star system.
    1 person likes this.
  10. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Why isn't it all ours to take?

    I am saddened by that comment.

    How about why isn't it ours to give....if it is ours?

    i know the age all debate about survival of the fittest and all, and that is true. I believe one can live sensibly and wisely as if one is no good for themself then how can they be good for anyone else, and all of the the philosophies about it that make sense.

    but I can only be selfish and arrogant for so long until i want to cry in the face of all things.
    i am not a religious person and do not believe that i will ever be rewarded for being a good person....but being good and caring and loving is its own reward, don't you think?
    1 person likes this.
  11. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

    "if its ours"

    that's just the point. it isn't.

    everything is everyone's, until someone stands over it in an act of belligerence. or if someone is actually using it for something.

    what saddnes me, is the attitude with which the now faided empires of europe, in their days of power, "discovered" the western hemisphere.

    it is we, who will be the "primatives", sailing our canoes, into a "new york harbour" of civilizations, advanced, powerful, and mostly cooperative with each other, beyond our wildest imaginings.

    if we think they're "ours" for the taking, we're idiots, and we'll very likely pay the price for being so.

    what i'm trying to point out, is to be cautious of how ignorant, our, collective arrogance, really is.
  12. rjhangover

    rjhangover Senior Member

    How arrogant is it to think that humanity is intelligent? How arrogant is it to think that this is the only marble in the whole universe with life on it?
    This solar system is only one of billions in this galaxy. There are hundreds of thousands of other galaxies. What are the odds that this is the only galaxy, with one single solar system, with one single marble with life on it? It's like believing the world is flat.

    And what are the odds that no other life can be far more intelligent? What are the odds that there is no reason for any of it? Now that's fucking arrogant!

    It's like that ant believing that humanity doesn't exist.
    3 people like this.
  13. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Well, since I was the one saying that (why isn't it all ours to take?) let me explain: there is nothing at all to give anything to on close by planets or asteroids. So that's why it is all ours (inhabitants of earth) to take. So no need to let such harvesting or mindset sadden you :) If we would encounter extraterrestrial life on either a planet or an asteroid this would change of course. But it is simply highly unlikely on the short term.

    Although the universe is so big and there are so many solar systems with planets out there that it is unlikely there is no other life out there somewhere, it is also very likely (because of this vastness) that we will not run into them ever.
  14. Pieceofmyheart

    Pieceofmyheart Grumpy old bitch HipForums Supporter

    Very interesting....

    We simply cannot be all there is and the best there is. If we are "it", that's pretty pathetic, lol.

    The reason our planet is in the shape it is is because we felt like it was our for the taking...we have used it up and not been kind or thankful.
    2 people like this.
  15. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    That's why harvesting raw materials in space is such a great option. If we can do that while progressing to less polluting ways of producing energy/fuel etc. we are far from pathetic. For a bunch of evolved apes we are already doing a pretty impressive job imo. The earth is not uninhabitable yet :p
  16. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member Super Moderator

    The error lies in thinking that we and the Universe are separate things.

    We are already traveling through the depths of space on our "Spaceship Earth", out beyond the furthest galaxy, lost in an infinite celestial sea; after all, everything is relative to the position of the observer.

    And as we find ourselves wandering about the cosmos visiting places to which we will never return, what of it if we find we must restock our Earthly stores from the infinite bounty of the Universe? For unlike the confines of our "Spaceship Earth" the Universe is indeed infinite. And if we should pluck a fruit from this tree or that, there will always be more for the taking!

    So, I say open the hatch at will and reap the bounty of the stars, after all, we are that very star dust itself! How can we steal from ourselves?

    1 person likes this.
  17. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    I'm 99% dark matter.
  18. hotwater

    hotwater Senior Member

    Quasar, quasar burning bright
    In the depths of the cosmic night
    What supernatural alchemy
    Fuels thy luminosity

  19. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam Senior Member

    One thing we often tend to forget when we look out to exploring the cosmos is that we live on a planet where we're not all that is when it comes to life. I think this is a very important thing to keep in mind and relevant to the thread, in fact I would not be surprised if commercial space exploration becomes common place, some other animals will be coming along with us.

    I cannot really see what perspective you are coming from where it's 'pathetic' if we are "the best there is." I think it's fascinating to consider the notion that our flavor of consciousness would be such a rare anomaly in the universe. It seems you would have to believe that the Universe is conscious in some way to reach the conclusion that complexity of life has to be graded or held to some measure, but I doubt many who believe in a God would really suggest it's 'pathetic' either, so it's a peculiar statement that perhaps some further elaboration may help clarify what you mean.
  20. tikoo

    tikoo Senior Member

    Our stories are for us alone , and this is how we are alone in the universe . How are
    we universal in mind unto One ? Must the answer be lonesomely another story ?

    I once read an unpublished Ursula Leguin story about alien contact . It wasn't that
    informative . She gave the other-worlders a human story to illustrate - something
    like , oh , Jesus and the Airplane Gods .

    Sometimes (rarely) I'll take the Oracle Wheel for a spin and contact 'Alien' . I don't
    understand much beyond the answers to Contact made ? and What substance are you ? .
    Well , the alien is an understanding/misunderstanding . Not enough context . Still , I
    think Universal Mind is an ok assumption . Otherwise , really , Stay Home !

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