As-salam alaykum السلام عليكم

I take offense of your faulty interpretation. Its rather hopeless.. I did not and won't ever defend muslims that kill (or even yell insults at) gays.
I'm super super glad I do not have your mindset and associations.

 

Mr. Writer just curious, have you ever had any muslim friends?

Because some of them are perfectly normal, you know. I actually have a muslim friend who - get this - has gay friends! And he drinks alcohol. And holy shit, you won't believe this - he has never even beheaded anyone. Nope, not even one person.

Sorry for the sarcasm but come on dude, stop with the broad brush strokes. We're all aware a lot of middle eastern countries are hundreds of years behind.

And some arent.

Did you know in the 60s Afghanistan was ruled by a king who wanted to bring Afghanistan into the modern world. During this time women were allowed to go to school, to college even. They could wear short skirts. They didnt have to cover their heads.

Women continued to experience even greater freedom and equality under Soviet rule. But of course, Soviets - so America started arming the mujahideen - who were mostly uneducated peasants living in the mountainous rural regions of the country. And we all know what happened then - the Taliban rose to power, turned on America, turned on their own liberal countrymen, destroyed thousands of years of Afghan culture and art.

The issue is very complex, and that is just one country out of many with equally complex histories. . You cant just blame it on Islam and be done with it. That is a gross oversimplification.

 

And just to clarify - yes, the communists were distinctly atheist, which is why women enjoyed freedom under their rule. And yes, the jihadists in rural areas probably started to radicalize as a reaction to that .

But is it about Islam, or is it about radicalization?

 

may your Way bring you peace and understanding sister

 

Yes, many, there is a large south asian population where I live. I have been good friends with many muslims in my life, and most are "nominal" muslims, that is, they are culturally muslim, and muslim by label, but sit down with them and show them certain passages in the quran, or press into questions of mohammad flying into heaven on a winged horse, and you can see the cognitive dissonance displayed on their face. I am currently the boss of a muslim person and we get along fabulously, I probably treat her better than any other manager at our company.

What would you say if I told you I have a vegan friend who has never eaten a vegetable, and only consumes meat. He even kills small animals in local parks himself with a slingshot. He's a vegan because of his concern for the ethical treatment of animals.

Ok, I'm very happy that some aren't (I'm not actually aware of any that aren't, but that's not the point). What I'm discussing here is the ones who ARE backwards.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with Asmo, where I showed him statistics about how something like 50% of some large muslim population believes atheists should be murdered in cold blood. Asmo's reply was to say "See, you were wrong about Islam! 50% of them DONT want to kill atheists outright!" I guess I just don't understand the reflexive shying away of speaking about the 50% who do. That's all I'm doing. I know it's a very uncomfortable conversation, but many people are willing to have it. Why aren't you?

Ayan Hirsi Ali is one of my personal heroes. She is a true human hero, a feminist, and she will sadly likely be martyred in our lifetime for daring to speak the things she does (and from experience!).

Fast forward to 3:00 and listen to her speak here for 6 minutes. Listen carefully to how the moderator pulls an Asmo and tries to deflect and derail the entire conversation, and listen to her answer. This is the place I am coming from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYfsiT9r9vo

Or check out Maajid Nawaz, a former islamic extremist who now works to undo islamic theocracy, shariah, and jihad mentality in the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BrueU4xd2w

Both these people live with security details 24/7, and regular death threats to them, their families, and their friends.

I want to be crystal clear for the Nth time; my issue is with Islam, not muslims. I do not treat muslims badly without provocation, they are people. It is absolutely absurd to paint me as a racist, or xenophobe, or closed minded about religion, or anything like that. I have my issues with islam because of how WELL I'm engaged with it, not because i get my education from fox news and think the race wars are coming.

I'm a university and college educated middle class liberal buddhist working in social services; I'm as friendly to minorities as it gets. That's why I have an issue with islam; minorities don't do so well when Islam has its say, and in fact, I would be executed or ostracized under most islamic shariahs simply for not accepting their story of the man in the sky.

 

Beauty is a subjective identification brought about by a fragmented self to describe a splintered reality. All things are both beautiful and ugly and yet neither all the same. Simply because you do not percieve Islamic actions or ideas as beautiful doesn't mean that others perceptions are "deeply troubled". Your reality is no more correct than theirs. In fact it is the fragmentation of the inherent formlessness of reality that often gives rise to such ideas of good and evil, right and wrong, acceptable and unacceptable, and the consequences that then arise from them.

It is the belief of true understanding that gives rise to violence .

 

It's been a few years, i just hope she is still alive. Poor girl had some rather serious personal/emotional issues going on.

Oh great, another poet philosopher gonna set us all straight.......

 

I do not seek to set anyone straight only to offer understanding

 

but understanding is something that you, the listener, brings to the table, so why adopt an attitude of correction and admonishment towards Mr. Writer, myself and others?

your attitude is frankly no different than an evangelical (fill in religion of choice) correcting someone because what they said doesn't line up with your belief system.

I understand completely what I post as does Mr. Writer, so you offer what is not needed.

or are you yet another that has attained "enlightenment" and are here at HF to spread the good word?

*sigh*...*great, another goddamn guru, just what this place needs*

 

and just what the fuck is this supposed to mean????

another gifted in the art of word salad and esoteric mumbo-jumbo.....

 

We return to where it began Noxious. Yet understanding and not understanding must always be received together. Only then can perfection be found in the disorder for are they not one and the same? Seek knowledge in words and ever elusive it will be. Seek discord in words and see how readily it is found. Seek nothing and everything is already there.

Truth creates division friend for we all have truth without truly having anythig whatsoever.

 

Yup.....esoteric mumbo-jumbo

 

Religion is born out of a certain cultural context as well as interpreted and/or modified by that cultural context. The culture may be seen as the underlying cause but it is the very nature of religion itself that makes it so dangerous. Religion cannot be argued or refuted (at least not by believers) because the principles governing it are viewed as inviolable. On the other hand, religion is malleable and can be interpreted, thus bent to any good or evil purpose.

And that does not stop with Islam .... Christianity has been through the same bullshit. Some of it is still going around.

Religious nuts might yet end us all ....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN6UFQcNOw8

 

"The only thing bad about fundamentalist Islam, are the fundamentals of Islam" - Sam Harris

Are we under threat by radical Buddhists? How about radical Marxists?

We're not; we're under threat primarily by radical Islamists.

If you look at a religion like Jainism, the REAL religion of peace, the core principal of Jainism is non-violence. Insofar as a Jainist becomes more radicalized, we have to worry about him less and less. Really devout Jains are so radical in their devotion to non-violence that they drink water through a sieve so as to not accidently swallow a bug, and they do not travel when it rains, so as not to crush a worm underfoot. Islam is riddled with ideas of jihad, of conquering the world, of the glories of martyrdom, of the glory of death over life, of patriarchy and genocide; so when someone runs with THESE values and takes them to their logical end, we get people like ISIL. ISIL is basing their society on a very straightforward reading of the Islamic texts. Their moral example is Mohammad, who is considered by all muslims to have been the most perfect human being to ever live. Take a moment to let that sink in; Mohammad is the highest moral and intellectual example for muslims.

This is a man who, if he existed today, would be seen as a joseph kony figure, and would be hunted by the world to be brought to the Hague for war crimes.

Where are the middle eastern extremist christians? There are many christians in the middle east, and they have suffered oppressions far worse than the muslims, and at the hands of the muslims. Where are the christians blowing themselves up in shopping malls, or gunning down cartoonists in europe who satirize the church?

The reason why radical Islamists are so confusingly barbaric and terrifying, is because the text from which they base their lives, the Quran and Hadiths, are fantastically evil documents full of moral depravity. The Quran is claimed to be the best book ever written in history, ever possibly written. It is in fact, not the best book; it is not the best book on any topic. The Quran is profoundly mediocre at best. You should pick it up and read it some time. Like the holy books of Judaism and Christianity, it could be improved upon, greatly, in mere moments. All these texts bear the stamp of their lowly human origin.

Islam in particular makes the very dangerous claim of being the Final Revelation; there can be none after it. This alone is an invitation to violence.

Let's not shy away from being honest and open about the goods being traded on the marketplace of ideas; Islam is the worst idea to dominate the most people in our lifetimes, and maybe in human history. That's not to say there aren't good parts in it, or there's nothing of value in it whatsoever, or that muslims are bad people, or that we should harm muslims. I'm talking about an IDEA. Islam is a bad idea; full stop.

 

Yeah, I often wonder what is so hard about understanding that.
it's not necessarily about the individual Muslim, but rather what the core beliefs which their religion and society is founded upon.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJo4B-yaxfk
not sure will start where I want to but 28:00 should work..

 

I shall seek to state my Way in accordance with your Way then. In my experience understanding is like a deep well. Dip in your hand and you tate a little, use a bucket and you get more and yet to get it all it is best to dive in face first. When we satisfy our thirst with only our experience we miss the full depth of it. When we use our understanding alongside that of others akin in thought to us we learn more but only in linear fashion. It is only when we accept others less linear understanding that we fully understand all things. Yet this then must be tempered by acknowledging that we as humans can only understand from a human sense. What is to be done then? Do we say that is enough or seek new forms of understanding ? Truth ties directly into understanding but as humans we cannot claim true knowledge but we try to and that claim to absolute truth is what spawns much violence in the world.

 

*yawn*
again, why do you assume you are presenting anything new for me to consider?
rather conceited and arrogant of you to make assumptions concerning my understanding, experience and knowledge concerning such esoteric topics.

 

Only you can decide if words are meaningful to your percieved self friend