As-salam alaykum السلام عليكم

Discussion in 'Islam' started by Resistance isn't futile, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Messages:
    50,556
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    I wonder what was the purpose of bumping this old goodbye thread, until I saw the person who did it.
     
  2. Piaf

    Piaf Senior Member

    Messages:
    25,272
    Likes Received:
    1,892
    I know you will never read this, but I am sorry I judged you and other faithful Muslims. A lot.
    I have come to realize that Islam is beautiful.
    I hope you are happy and well wherever you are.

    Even in my recent posts I was sometimes extremely negative towards Islam and Muslims.
    Ahhh how I have been humbled!!

    Also, sorry for posting here now, just wanted to leave this here!
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,286
    Likes Received:
    643
    I think Islamic culture is what you're probably referring to; I really doubt that an intelligent western woman would think that Islam was beautiful, and if she did, she hasn't read the Quran and Hadiths.
     
  4. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Messages:
    50,556
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    Why narrow it down so rigidly? Islam has beautiful aspects.
    I guess it also is subjective to a point: just because you can only see how atrocious it is other people (esp. females) must all be stupid for seeing the beauty in it? Thats ugly dude. Narrowminded also. Typical...
     
  5. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

    Messages:
    8,382
    Likes Received:
    2,385
    you can not argue with the blatant misogynistic and abusive nature of the religion/culture in regards to woman and children or the condoning of violence against those of different faiths.
    Both are actively condoned and encouraged in the religious teachings, that can't really disputed.

    very often it is you who are myopic and narrow minded, Asmo, often simply in the pursuit of being contrary towards certain people it would appear.
     
  6. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

    Messages:
    25,868
    Likes Received:
    18,279
    That's interesting piaf, i would be interested in hearing what changed your mind.

    I still feel sorry for this girl. I agree islam is beautiful but many countries in the middle east are still not kind to women. Hopefully she is happy.

    Edit: i think i agree with mr. Writer's assessment - i like the culture more than the religion itself. But i think people practice the religion in beautiful ways every day. And others practice it in very ugly ways.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Messages:
    50,556
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    Not really. If you read closer you will notice im not just being contrary. Im not even arguing the dubious aspects!
    I just care about this subject and find it disappointing when smart people say stupid stuff on a consistent basis, just because THEY look at islam through one specific lens (tunnel vision :p). When Writer makes similar expressions about christianity or its followers you make the exact same kind of reply.
     
  8. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,286
    Likes Received:
    643
    "He's so closed-minded, if he would only look at the beautiful poetry after the chapter on beheading infidels but before the chapter on the lesser worth of women, he'd realize Islam brings something of value to our lives."

    FYI I really dig Sufism, I have shed tears to Rumi and I listen to Qawwali

    I consider this to be *exquisite*

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLBFmA87tyg

    (really gets going at 7:30)

    I've also read the Quran and the Hadiths. Twice.

    How engaged are YOU with islam? From where do you speak? Is it only a place of reflexive fear of offending? Because you sound like somebody else I know . . .

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Messages:
    50,556
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    Yeah i know i sound PC at times but im not concerned with that at all. I hope you can tear that association down (after all its your association..). Im also not concerned about insulting and offending anyone, minority or not. So please don't project that stuff on me. It only shows how your brain works.
    The fact that you are not primarily out to insult but actually mean such statements like that a western woman basically has to be a retard to see the beauty in islam is what makes me drop in and give my 2 cents (again :p)

    I like islamic culture overall more than the religion as well (culture and religion are often intertwined of course. Imo a religion is just one part of a culture). That was not what i'm arguing.
     
  10. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,286
    Likes Received:
    643
    I never used the words "stupid" or "retard" so what's your beef? Stop with the pop psychology please, you talk about projection in like 60% of your posts . . . you are so insufferably boring when you spout this crap dude.

    I'm saying that if Piaf thinks Islam is beautiful, Piaf does not know Islam. That's it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcqFWr6h4qc

    You can think that the sound of his voice is beautiful, you can think that the emotion displayed is beautiful, the devotion and ecstasy is captivating, and all that; but if you, as a human being, actually read the words he is singing, and think that they are "beautiful", I think that you are a deeply troubled human being. This is a recitation of the Quran btw, the core text of islam, The Perfect Word of The Creator of The Universe.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Messages:
    50,556
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    Lol sure i sound boring when i counter your convictions again. I can see why you say that. Im not trying to be entertaining then though. I just wanna get my point (that i sincerely mean, it is not merely coming from some pc conviction that people unfortunately choose to resort to when they notice my reaction) across. Which is apparently a big challenge.
    So... once again: i never said every aspect of islam is beautiful or good. You don't have to try to prove to me these aspects are there :p Im not denying that women are often repressed in islamic countries and that the religion is a big factor in that. Saffy? ;)
    You however often put it in such a way I have to nuance it. I have a hard time letting that slide and don't see why I should (because it sounds boring... ? :p), so I won't.

    edit: spelling
     
  12. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Messages:
    50,556
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    You're not using the word stupid or retard therefor my point is mute or 'pop psychology'... Sigh...

    You know what you are saying here:

    And you know what i was nuancing about it... right? (I will admit using the word retard as an replacement was slightly unneccesary but you are implying such a person has got to be unintelligent)

    edit: also spelling.. typing on phone sucks!
     
  13. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

    Messages:
    8,382
    Likes Received:
    2,385
    actually you are wrong,
    the problem is that the religious teachings are the culture and those teachings actively condone violence against women, children and non-Muslims and that is still very much at the core of the teachings today.

    it is those very teachings that fuel and give purpose to most of the violence in the Muslim world today.
     
  14. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Messages:
    50,556
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    So where am i wrong exactly? Didn't i say i also see that the religion intertwines with the culture, and is an actual part of the culture? ;)

    The last sentence in your post is arguable though. Most violence in 'the muslim world' (you mean the middle east?) today is war related, not domestic or societal violence. Maybe if you think these wars are primarily fought for religious reasons it seems right. But it appears to be different.
     
  15. deleted

    deleted Visitor

    Dhuhr.. ;)
     
  16. TheSamantha

    TheSamantha Member

    Messages:
    1,546
    Likes Received:
    281
    Tell that to anyone who has been to Chop Chop Square in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
     
  17. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

    Messages:
    25,868
    Likes Received:
    18,279
    And yet several middle eastern, predominately islam countries are quite peaceful and their women enjoy freedom more along the lines of what we expect from the west.

    Which tells me religion isnt the root of the problem, but rather the culture and government of specific countries.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,286
    Likes Received:
    643
    And what about their gays? Their atheists? Their apostates?

    The penalty for apostasy in Islam is death.

    DEATH. For leaving the religion. This is "beautiful"?
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Messages:
    50,556
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    Nobody was saying that's beautiful. Its an aspect though. How many muslims are actively hating on gays? Most i know can tolerate homosexuality just fine. It's not solely a religious thing either, its also a cultural/societal thing. Does every nation with a muslim majority treats atheists the same? So it appears killing infidels does not have to be an intrinsic part of islamic faith either: that certain nations have nasty policies if you do not share their national faith is often as much an authority and/or societal issue than just a religious one. The islamic nation across the border can already have much more accepting policies.

    Our own societies used to regard and treat gays just as abominable. Well they often still are subject to hate and intolerance. But on a national/societal level we have adjusted... but only a few decades ago!! :p Our society's main religion was a large cause that gays weren't tolerated for centuries, sure. But the only cause? I for one am not convinced. Its not all as black and white as antireligious people often put it.
     
  20. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,286
    Likes Received:
    643
    [​IMG]


    Gays are being slaughtered in the muslim world, and oppressed otherwise in every way you can imagine, and you are the guy sitting behind his computer in the first world saying "well I've never met a muslim who bashed a gay, so it can't be real, and islam can't be the problem".

    Of course other religions also treat minorities terribly; feel free to start a new thread about the treatment of gays in african by christians, for example.

    In this thread, in this thread in the Islam forum, we will be discussing Islam's treatment of gays.

    Here's a nice resource for you to begin your understanding of Islam's attitudes towards atheists.

    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Qur%27an_on_infidels

    Asmo, one day you will realize you are defending the wrong people; the ones getting hurt are not the ones having to read uncomfortable posts on the internet; they are the ones being marginalized and oppressed in ways you've never experienced before thanks exactly to the kind of society created by rejecting the values of medeival superstitions.
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice