The Gradual Abolition of Meat...

Just seems silly you want a burger eat a burger not some pseudo random combination of stuff put together to approximate a burger...

 

It is silly that these fake "meats" exist. They're not the real thing and never will be. Why go trough this trouble of kidding yourself, it's not even the health food people claim it to be:

Why Fake Meat Is a Problem, Not a Solution | Amy Myers MD

Of course.

Objection. How many of these meat eating people also consume regular servings of alcohol and tobacco on the side? Two well known, strong carcinogens often also associated with the illnesses that you listed. Until these two are taken out of the equation, the results are distorted, and we can't say for a fact that meat is the sole reason for their cancer and the only boogeyman in the room. In fact, I find it funny that after advertising the health benefits of their lifestyle, many vegans then head to the bar with their mates for a night out of knocking back shots of whiskey and vodka. Known carcinogens.

Technically speaking Little Tyke DID enjoy milk and eggs, meaning she did consume at least something animal based. This animal would not have survived in the wild. Lil' Tyke was a ranch pet that humans owned and cared for. Her preferred foods would not have been available to her in the wild and she would've eventually died from malnourishment, had she persistently refused to eat the usual lion diet. This isn't to say that it wasn't a heart-warming story, but Little Tyke was still a unique, isolated incident, that was born in unusual circumstances. To my knowledge, no others like her have been witnessed since. Also, the fact that Little Tyke died only at age 9 makes the whole thing feel kinda suspect. Even in the wild, lions usually do anywhere between 13-16 years, unless killed in combat with another animal (or shot by humans). Captive zoo lions consistently beat 20+ years with proper care and meat dinners.

 

Not really .I eat mainly veggie for health reasons . I dont want the hard animal fats inside me and being veggie helped me to lose weight .I dont eat red meat at all and sometimes flex with white meat . But I am not one of those in your face vegetarians

 

Can't help but point out: meat might someday just be grown in a petri dish, thus obliterating ANY argument (including B-12 ) anyone could make for the inhumane meat industry.

 

Vegetarianism has also been linked with lower rates of cognitive decline, Alzheimers and dementia amongst the elderly.

Plant-based diet may prevent cognitive decline

Vegetarians Have Lower Dementia Risk

Alzheimer’s Disease

This is especially important in the context of western society which has an ageing population. Compounding this problem is the lack of support systems for the elderly as compared to the east, as well as a relatively much more expensive medical system with spiraling costs that bankrupts the individual of his hard earned savings, while healing him .

Adopting a vegetarian diet thus can enable people to have better mental health, and thereby lead lives of self-esteem and dignity in their old age instead of being objects of pity or jest.

Another major concern associated with the meat industry is greenhouse gas emissions.

Livestock products are responsible for more greenhouse gases emissions than most other food sources. Emissions are caused by feed production, enteric fermentation, animal waste and land- use change. Livestock supply chains account for 7.1 GT CO2, equivalent to 14.5% of global anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions.

How livestock farming affects the environment

What would happen if the world suddenly went vegetarian?

The 2021 record breaking Canada heat wave killed over 600 people within a month with the majority of them being elderly.

Over 12000 people died in the 2022 European heat wave from June to August 2022.

So heat waves spurred by global warming has now emerged as a global killer. This aside from super-hurricanes that wreck coastal economies to the tune of billions of dollars as well as frequent forest fires that compound the problem as well as rising sea levels that are engulfing low lying islands and coastal areas.

Thus adoption of vegetarianism can emerge as a force-multiplier solution that can eliminate or mitigate a host of problems the world is facing at present.

 

Some practical problems: Switching the whole food industry into producing plant-based stuff only is putting all of your eggs into one basket. All you need is one unfortunate, unexpected, unfavorable weather incident, where shitty weather wipes out the crops, and then nobody eats. This frequently used to be the issue behind the mass famines in North Europe (most recently just 200 years ago), before the meat industry ended the horror. Stuff typically grown for cow feed, like peas and grass, are more resilient to abrupt weather changes, not to mention, you can grow this stuff on more demanding soil that doesn't support your typical food plants, like oat and rye.

Assuming you somehow manage to liberate all those millions of farm animals from the horror of becoming dinner, what then? What are you gonna do with them after that? Keep them as pets, in your own house? They're not just gonna magically go away, poof, into thin air. In this scenario, you'd still have to feed them, and shelter them, and provide them with medical care, and somebody would have to pay for all this. Because if you don't, if you just abandon them and leave them to their own devices, you'd then be guilty of animal cruelty. Only this time, you wouldn't be getting anything back in return.

Old age and illness will kill the animals anyway, usually anywhere between 10-20 years. They're suddenly not gonna turn immortal and become these fun little pets that you can go and scratch behind the ear at your local zoo. But now you wouldn't be able to take the meat and hides and milk to use them for something productive, like feeding and clothing our children. You probably wouldn't take the animals' shits either to turn it into fertilizer that could be used to grow more crops (cycle of poo, yo). In this scenario, the animals and their resources would just die off and rot away, without ever giving anything back. All that would-be-food wasted. And there would be a mass extinction event of all those abandoned pigs, and cows, and sheep, who'd begin to die off from lack of care, because nobody wants to keep an animal the size of a cow as a pet if it doesn't produce anything. Too expensive for zero payoff. And just think of all the Co2-producing cow farts that still wouldn't go away, because the cows would continue to exist regardless. Only now not contributing anything but Co2-producing farts. Until it dies a miserable death, alone and abandoned, because nobody wants to keep a useless animal. Certainly none of the mocha latte-slurping vegan hipsters in the city, not after they realize that keeping a cow as a pet would mean shoveling buckets of cow shit on the weekly just to keep the yard clean, and that would be, like, yeeew, filthy.

Anyway, in this current political climate, good luck with convincing those hostile, unfriendly cultures like Russia and China to give up eating their traditional dishes, like shashlik, or sweet-and-sour pork. I'm sure in China in particular they'll be very welcoming to a foreigner's efforts to tell them what to do, while they're somehow desperately trying to feed an overgrown population of 1,3 billion people.

Which reminds me, once the population grows to, say, 10 billion (+all those pet cows you saved and must now feed also), where comes the new farm land to grow even more crops? Shall we cut down even more rain forest to grow more soy? And, more importantly, are you willing to share your vegan dinner with the cow whose life you just saved? The cow has to eat too, and they're, funnily enough, vegans also. You don't wanna starve the cow, now, do you?

Hey, I'm all for this, just as long as the petri dish stuff is tasty and safe to eat and generally fulfills your basic nutritional requirements expected of meat products.

 

I saw the most amazing demonstration of second stage logic of pigs.
One of the sows had a nasty habit of trampling and rolling in the flower bed and to entice her out, she was offered an apple. While other animals would work out that trampling in the flower bed again would get them a treat, she obviously knew that we did hot want her to do it. Instead, she stood beside the flower bed and waited for her apple. Few children under 3 would have worked that one out.

Another thing is that since pigs have no sweat glands, they wallow to cover themselves in mud. However urine in the mud causes serious skin damage, so they never contaminate the wallow. As soon as they can walk, piglets do the same in the shed where they sleep and take milk from their mother.
This causes endless amusement for the farmer when the farm is open to visitors. Children want to pick up the piglets and the mother has no problems with her offspring being admired (again unusual among animals). However, the moment that the piglet is picked up and away from the bedding, it goes off like a lawn sprinkler. The child quickly puts it down and picks up another piglet and the same happens again. No matter how many attempts the child makes, it will continue happening. Although the piglets bladder may not be full, it will take the opportunity to empty it.
Piglets do this from about 3 days old, while children wear nappies for up to 2 years.

Our daughter has 18 month old twins. The other day she said, "I wish I was back on the pig farm".

 

Is this for philosophical reasons or health reasons? I have looked into this subject and found it is seed oils that are unhealthy due to an excessive amount of omega -6 that causes inflammation of the arteries. Chemical solvents are used to extract seed oils.Trans fat found in margarine is also unhealthy.

 

The problem with meat is two fold. The government is complacent to providing too much support for ranchers and requires the dedication of an expansive amount of Private and Public land. The tax incentives and the distribution of animal products are a big part of the GDP of this country. In the second case the government with help of Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush has systematically deregulated the Meat and Dairy industries over time, allowing the product quality to drop to the point hat most meat and dairy products produced in the U. S.are unfit for human consumption or even pet food. It is not a surprise that Only China and a couple of other nations will buy our products. On a recent road trip I was amazed by the amount of blighted land surrounding commercial dairies. When you look at the contamination of dairy products with Growth and Fattening hormones and antibiotics to prevent mastitis, it is not surprising that obesity and diabetes are epidemic. If this land was put into grain and vegetable production along orchards for fruit crops, the abundance, cost and quality of food in the markets would vastly improve.

 

Good. They're catching up to Hindus.

 

I think it's probably for the same reason "Pro-life" folks want to push theirs on others. They think that the poor animals (or blastocysts) have some actual (or potential )intelligence and are sentient beings and therefore are entitled not to die for the sake of us. But there are degrees of sentience and intelligence. I tend not to be horrified at the routine boiling alive of crustaceans at Red Lobster, cuz I doubt that they really are able to process that much because of their limited nervous systems.(BTW, I don't eat lobster, cuz I don't like it, & I don't often eat at Red Lobster, cuz my budget doesn't like it.) Lambs, pigs, etc,, are a different story. I'm also not horrified by abortions during the first couple of trimesters (until development of a brain and nervous system) , for similar reasons. And unlike smoking, what we eat is something that mainly affects us, not others--unless we want to endorse extreme Big Brotherism where our premature demise would deprive society of a taxpayer or make others sad.

 

Don't much care for pro lifers or vegans they can both kick rocks, don't much care for lobster or red lobster either

 

I respect people who are vegan and those who are trying to reduce their meat consumption. A related topic is how animals are raised and treated in the meat production process.

And my concern is Thank God for Californians!!!! They have made progress in making pork consumption more humane. They have passed a referendum requiring minimal space requirements more pregnant pigs. Even tho it’s only 24 square feet per animal, it’s a start at reducing horrible over crowding….overcrowding that directly causes animal diseases such as bird flu. I grew up in farm country and many of my neighbors raised pigs….but never in such horrible crowded conditions. Moreover because of California’s market share the standard may put pressure on producers nationwide.

And then came The Whining of greedy capitalists. Theynsay that the standards would cost billions. If so maybe pork production needs to be phased out. Humane livestock production should be the bottom line. If pig’s can’t be raised humanely in Iowa or Alabama or Minnesota, maybe it’s time to call a halt to pork production there. As a society we must insist to humane treatment of livestock.

Enough of corporate greed and lawyers fighting humane regulations. Course they thought child labor was fine and OSHA a socialist plot.

 

it starts with the people ,,iff the people change there habbits ,and eat less meat or no meat atall ,then there will be less demand ,and therefore less animals will need to be farmed