racist acid throwing maniac apprehended

The traditions of the Anishinaabe people around here say that we are all living on the back of a giant turtle. I think they're on to something.

 

You leap to their defense, @Asmodean!

I cannot believe it each time we have this conversation!?!?! My position is essentially like the old adage "If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck" well whadya know... It just might be a duck.

I know what you're thinking too. The other adage, "when you hear hoofbeats, don't assume zebras" or something to that effect.

But in my estimation, and particularly online people are being racist.

 

I'm mainly pointing out that you're baffled by your own lack of understanding. I'm not baffled by people having racist convictions, used to discriminate or not, and certainly not by it appearing online.
I'm not defending discrimination, but am pointing out that not every racist theory is ment to discriminate. You seem not only baffled by the fact that people discriminate, but also that people have or consider any racist theory they simply find likely or seem to have merit.

 

When people refrain from considering racist theories merely because other people (like you) find discrimination so bad that we better leave every theory that might be seen as unfavorable for a race or ethnicity alone that would be a loss. It seems you would see that as a win. So you will always clash with people who wanna discuss these theories and you try to put it like, 'hey that might make feel people bad. You shouldn't discuss this.'

 

I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly here.

Essentially, you're saying that someone stating that race X is more likely to commit a crime (in a certain country, or city, etc.) is not racist, but merely stating an established fact, and you do not have a problem with that.

But, if someone then says that nobody should let race X in their store because they are more likely to commit crimes, that is discrimination (since they are taking a generalization and applying it to an individual), and you do have a problem with that.

Yay? Nay?

 

Yes, except that the person in the first example could very well be racist. I'm not saying they're not. I'm saying Soulcompromise seems to see and wanna treat it as racist discrimination by default. Which is very unconstructive imo. He thinks the way how I am handling this I am leaping to racists defence. But I think by trying to make racist theories by default a taboo or treat the person sharing it as a racist supremacist you're giving them a reason to see liberals as libtards and be at odds with PC behavior (and i can't blame them).

People have the right to have controversial ideas and convictions, and share them. People do not have the right to act on a controversial idea or conviction if it infringes on other peoples rights or is discriminating. But simply share the idea or conviction on a discussion board is not doing either (not by definition at least. There are of course indications that show why or how a person is actually discussing something that can render it as dubious or the argument meaningless)

 

Racist ideas can often turn into racist actions and I see no reason why soul or me or anyone else should try to make people with racist ideas feel more comfortable by accepting their ideas with an open mind. Their ideas are dangerous.
They can think I'm a libtard for speaking up about it, it doesnt bother me

 

He should not try to make them more comfortable, but ideally simply lose the conviction that someone proposing a theory about races is not doing it to put anyone down or discriminate.
The convo will usually make it clear if that's the case or not. I understand why he's baffled but trying to by default equate considering a racist theory and sharing that with a conscious attempt to actively discriminate creeps me out. Also a line like this:

Unless I am missing something and its in reference to something specific in this thread? Because really, at least half of those theories and why they're being brought forward has nothing to do with this! So why pose it like its so?

I'm simply thinking that sometimes Soulcompromise gives the term libtard merit. Which I find unfortunate.

Just because certain ideas (like theories involving race) can be dangerous doesn't mean they should be avoided or the one who shares it condemned and labeled as 'a racist'. In fact, we see it actually can have an opposite effect.

 

Someone who puts forth outdated and disproven racist ideas shouldnt be labeled a racist?

Yeah I dont even feel like having this discussion lol, I'm bowing out

 

Because others might adopt and abuse them for actual discrimination. I can see that. But what if it seems there's some kind of truth in a theory (according to the one who wants to discuss it); should discussion about it then be avoided just because they can be dangerous? And if we can acknowledge discussing these dangerous ideas openly and with scrutiny has purpose, why be baffled by people who bring them forth? They're not all dubious racists or trolls (as said: the convo generally makes it clear if that's the case. And yes, unfortunately on here its regularly the case).

 

I never said the discussion should be avoided. People are free to bring up whatever they want and I'm free to dismiss it as racist, unfounded, and outdated

 

Details and motive etc. matter. You're obviously thinking about specific theories (and maybe forummers?). As not every theory about race is outdated or disproven. I'm talking in the general sense.

 

So, why are you acting like I'm arguing something stupid?

 

Well you seem to be arguing that those who discuss their belief in racist theories shouldnt be dismissed as racists
And I disagree
And I'm not sure which theories you think haven't been disproven.
So I'm not really sure I know 100% what you're arguing

 

That is is funny, are you jumping down my throat? Lol.

I would defend any ethnicity if I heard a person relating racism to one and only one ethnicity, which, if you read back you will see that this guy believes that any and all people who vote right wing are white people and that all white people are all racist. I can not respect that way of thinking, nor do I agree with it. If you have a different point of view he will call you racist as well and assume you are white. All white people are racist he says. I was responding to him, not you. I have agreed that some people who happen to be white are racist, Some are not. Same goes for other ethnicities, some are and some are not. That was the point. I most certainly do not judge an entire political party voter poll based on some who voted for that party. II think of each person asan individual. So call me racist all you want, it hold little weight and clearly you do not know me. Do you agree that all white people are racist too?

 

Not hysterical at all. Quite calm actually.

Out of Europe and into Africa.

Potential hominin affinities of Graecopithecus from the Late Miocene of Europe

 

Indeed. I consider the possibility it has to with racist discrimination or supremacy, but do not conclude in advance. You and Soulcompromise apparently do. And I think Souls disbelief (baffling) is ment to imply he can't belief the other is trying to spread something utterly dubious. But that isn’t always the case and acting like it is is dubious on itself.

Some examples:
It is not conclusively proven humans originated in Africa. What we know at this point simply indicates it is the likeliest option. There are also indications we don't know everything (missing links and all), so yeah, if someone brings forth an alternative theory or idea that humans just as well could have originated from India or the mongolian or russian steppes that does not make them a racist yet.

The idea that certain races are better at something than others does also not have to come from a racial superiority complex. It can simply be a sincere consideration that happens to be perceived as a likely option. Asians could be better at math, africans could have an advantage in certain sports and all options should be able to be considered with disproportional numbers where it comes to race and crime.
You say the idea/theories/such considerations are dangerous. What do you think that conclusion means? That the best way to deal with it is equate the idea with discriminating or oppressing actions? If not, what ARE you saying with that the ideas are dangerous? That they should be shunned by default (as Souls seems to be inclined to)?
Isn't the idea of murder potentially dangerous too? And one that one we as a society have concluded its a big difference entertaining the idea and actually doing it (its even literally commonly used as entertainment, like in detectives and what not).
It's not like if there's an unfortunate conclusion to be drawn (for example a specific race is the worst in getting college degrees) we gonna implement a discriminating rule that obstructs people of that race from getting to college. With an argument like it's basically a waste of funds
Hey, I'm sure racists would argue for that option. But it wouldn't be accepted by the system and majority of people. Acting like every idea pertaining to race and the one who shared it should be shunned or ridiculed because of the possible danger is dubious on itself, and (just as importantly) countereffective.

 

omg @Asmo! You're such an enabler... ffs smh.

You shouldn't allow racism at all! It's evil/has nothing to do with having an open mind! It's a type of laziness if you ask me.

 

You are the one who is at odds with the world, humans and freedom of thought here.
I'm not allowing or enabling active discrimination. You merely think you prevent it by shunning ideas and theories and labeling anybody who wants to consider them a racist. You're not actually getting rid of racism that way. You do get a certain kind of antisocial citizen who feels controversial thought is not allowed and mislabeled for convenience of the masses.

 

Racists need education.
Why?
It is so that they learn a bit about somebody’s cultural background.
I can imagine you going up to a british citizen and hanging shit on them all the time.
For example you have seen people in here come and go.
Instead of bullying people about their cultural background, accept them. Be kind to them.