elective ultrasounds

I really don''t have a number on that. I know at least 5 womyn who only aborted because the U/S found "problems" with the fetus. If they hadn't had the U/S they would have continued the pregnancy.

I had U/Ss with my babies, but it was to check for due dates. Even though I am mostly prochoice, once I get pregnant, I stay that way, if my body allows it. (meaning if I don't miscarry.) But, I can't judge other womyn.

One of my neighbors was having what appeared to be a "normal" pregnancy, until her scheduled U/S. They found a facial deformity of the baby. She was well into her second tri, too late to abort in our state. She went out of state to have the procedure. He had a disease called Trisomy 13.http://health.yahoo.com/ency/adam/001660/0

Bear and I discussed this and decided if thie ever happened to us, we would go ahead and have the baby and deal with whatever happened. But I can't put my own decisions about things like this on others.

But the thing is, the ultra sound did cause her abortion. She thought it was a blessing. I didn't really say anything. I always feel I can handle even sick babies, but I don't judge what other people think they can handle.

 

Picture of a baby with Trisomy 13. This chromosomal illness is considered "incompatible with life." Although a few children have survivied birth and lived a few years.

Look at your own risk. This deformity can be very disturbing. As you can see, it can usually be detected by the ultrasound. The deformities are so severe and so many, that a regular ultrasound will find them.



http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:upTWesmYO0EJ:www.geocities.com/genetic_letters/trisomy13.jpg

This baby with Trisomy 13 has cyclopia, meaning the eyes have fused into just one. He does not have the rest of his face. Tri 13 is probably one of the most severe forms of Trisomy chromosome conditions known.

No, I deleted the picture. It was too much. Sorry.

​

 

I will... give me the address for main office and I will. The idea of doing that is insane. If a person is on the border, then maybe they'll go pro-life. But dead set aborntionists aren't going to change their mind cause they see their kid.

I'm doing U/S, and the test I can't think of the name it has. I want to be prepared when I have children for any medical problems they might come up with. Making U/S illegal is going to make a rise in children who get abandoned because they're family won't want to care for a child like that.

 

NO ONE is going to make ultrasound "illegal" PP wanted to limit access to the machines to medical professionals. I mean, can you buy a blood separator and set up a booth at the mall? No. Same with Ultrasound.

Please, this is how rumors get started. There are NO plans to make ultrasound illegal.

 

right on, exactly.

i don't really understand what the big debate is about.. it sounds like both sides want some sort of standards for the use of the machines. i wouldn't want an unlicesnsed professional putting me on kidney dialysis, so why would i want an unlicensed professional performing an ultrasound on me?

if pp is trying to prevent unlicenced professionals from performing ultra sounds, more power to them.. they're doing women, babies and fetuses a favor.

the abortion factor is totally irrelevent -- most abortions occur for other reasons, and the decision to abort is made before the fetus is even visible on the screen. sure, there are some women who feel that once they see the fetus they can't abort it, but those women probably weren't considering abortion anyway... and there are just as many women who decide to abort because they find extreme birth defects through the u/s. there aren't absolutes. it's not a pro-life machine, it's not a pro-choice machine. this sounds like it's just an issue that pro-lifers are trying to get uppity about to bash pp.

 

Refer back to the excerpt from the Chicago Tribune editorial that I quoted earlier.

That's an absurd comparison.

I never said that Planned Parenthood wanted to ban ultrasounds altogether, but they are pushing prohibit pregnancy resource centers from offering them to women who request them. I'm amazed that you all apparently support such strongarm tactics. I don't know how you can possibly ignore the fact that Planned Parenthood is an abortion business that feels threatened by the very existence of pregnancy resource centers. If they were truly concerned about the health of women and their babies, they would support stricter regulation of abortion clinics, such as requiring that they comply the same standards of all ambulatory surgical centers.

It wasn't "irrelevant" to abortionist and NARAL co-founder Bernard Nathanson, who became pro-life largely through the advent of the ultrasound.

Given that such extreme birth defects are generally rare, I seriously doubt that "just as many women decide to abort" because of an ultrasound.

If abortionists succeed in restricting the use of ultrasounds by pregnancy resource centers, why not at least require the abortionists to offer ultrasounds to women considering abortion?

 

Huck, c'mon. They DO. Mothering is NOT a prochoice magazine, and they had evidence (see the references I quoted in the article) that womyn DO abort due to U/S results. The estimated number is about 1 in 200 abortions, done after and ultrasound, are done due to FALSELY identifying "abberations" in the fetus. I certainly don't want that to happen. .5% is too high. It shouldn't happen at all. The problem is, MOST if not all of these abortions are performed because someone didn't perform and analyze an U/S properly.

It is a medical TEST, and should be used ONLY by medical professional, for diagnostic reasons.

 

I didn't dispute that it happens at all, but the claim that these cases outnumber those in which ultrasound has prevented abortions.

I think that diagnostic ultrasounds should only be done by medical professionals, but I don't agree that they should be the only type of ultrasounds allowed.

 

I am going to be completely honest. I don't know the numbers of which were due to U/S and those which U/S "prevented." I don't know if there is a way to find out the exact number. Rarely is abortion or the choice to carry a pregnancy based on one event. I do feel that ONLY diagnostic U/Ss should be the only ones allowed. It is a medical test, which can give false information if done incorrectly, and has never been proven completely safe, to be done multiple times, or even for an extended time.

I have a freind who is an U/S tech. And she was telling me this afternoon that she won't do half hour U/Ss unless there are MEDICAL orders for them. She is not allowed to, and would not do a U/S just so someone can entertain themselves, or even just check the sex of the fetus.

 

Huck and his agenda. That article is a bunch of misinformation and untruths.

I am a maternity care provider, so it behooves me to keep up with all the hoopla and hype surrounding maternity care.

The whole point of ANY prenatal screening is to give the mother the option of termination, including ultra-sounds.
The blood test done at 15 weeks is to screen for risk of spina bifida and Down's, and to offer the mother the option of termination. Many of the women I care for waive this test because they would not terminate under any condition. Amniocentesis is also a diagnostic tool designed to give women the option of termination.
Those U/S booths set up at the mall, are used by women who have already decided to keep their babies and want video and pictures. They are not used to diagnose anomolies or confirm pregnancy. They are not going to change anyone's minds about continuing or aborting. AND, they are dangerous, especially the 3 and 4D ultrasounds, which have been proven to increase fetal brain temperature, risking the baby developing learning disabilities.

Often a high resolution ultra-sound is done after a screening to rule in/rule out anomolies, if anomolies are found, the woman has the option of terminating.
ALL U/S should be done strictly for diagnosis, NONE should be done routinely, nd certainly NEVER done for entertainment.

 

Again Huck sputtering his stupidity.

Earth to Huck! Abortion clinics automatically give ultrasounds whether you want one of not! They even use them during the procedure.

I saw my ultrasound....know what I saw? Nothing. Maybe a itty bitty tiny dark spot. For a moment, I disbelieved I was even pregnant because all my prenatatl ultrasounds for my daughters had visible pictures of my kids. I saw eyes,hands,feet,thumb-sucking. The ultrasound for the abortion, I saw no hands or feet or thumbsucking? Why? because the embryo was too early for those things. It barely had a placenta at that stage.

Huck tries to make people believe that abortion clinics are these scary slaughterhouses that exist in arcane warehouses run by Josef Mengele who kneels between strapped down women's legs with blood up to his elbows laughing and making women feel like shit.

He claims that women are involuntarily sedated and that ultrasounds are withheld from pregnant women to prevent mind-changing.

women can change their minds at any point, ultrasounds are always used, sedation is optional and costs more, the clinics are bright and colorful, the staff is kind and thoughtful of the woman's needs and desires, and clinics are in clean,nearer-looking buildings in the middle of a business district.And women are certainly not forced or strapped down as their cherub feti are ripped in a bloody tidal wave from their warm and cozy wombs.

But if Huck had his way, women would have to crawl back to the Menegle-docs in the dirty alleys and warehouses and pay $1000 for some knitting needles to be shoved into their uteri.

 

Otter! You're back!

How are you?

 

Brighid!

Well...it's a long story with some not-so happy moments. But for the time being I am alive and alright. My kids are doing well.

How are you and your tribe?

 

AMEN!!!!

Otter, looks like you have been through a rough time, and may still be fragile a bit. I know you and Huck disagree and that is fine. I am glad you are back (man, we were worried about you, girl) but please do not call Huck names, especially not "bitch." Okay? He has his agenda, but he has been trying to be respectful in his own way, (and I appreciate it) and we are entitlted to our opinions. You can remove the names from the post, sweetie or I can do it.

No hard feelings, let's just try to keep it civil.

Blessings,

Maggie

Ps ESPECIALLY when it comes to Issues like this, which can really get under people's skin, let's re read the Womyn's Issues Forum Guidlines and FAQs to try to have things go smoothly.

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49931

 

We're all good. I was worried about you, though. You just disappeared.
Glad to see you back.

 

geez you republicans jump on pro choice people even if you're not valid. sonar waves can be dangerous if over done. planned parenthood is trying to minimize the effects-remember they provide more prenatal care then any other charitable organization. they aide in the delivery of babies more then they aide in choice.

 

I've never seen these mall setups, so I know nothing about them. However, my wife has counseled at a pregnancy resource center, and I can safely say that most women who go there are very undecided about abortion and are often unsure if they are even pregnant.

Do you have any references on this?

I'm sure they're also careful to keep the women from seeing them.

Great imagery! But seriously, shouldn't abortion clinics at least meet the same regulatory requirements as other ambulatory surgical centers?

See http://www.lifenews.com/nat1049.html.

 

Quote: from Brighid
AND, they are dangerous, especially the 3 and 4D ultrasounds, which have been proven to increase fetal brain temperature, risking the baby developing learning disabilities.
Huck then asked:

Yes. There is PLENTY of data that routine U/S may not be safe. Huck PLEASE READ THIS!!!!

 

Why bother? it's quite obvious that Huck only reads from our posts the pieces-parts he wants. He asks questions that we already answered in our posts.

An yes Huck..abortion clinics DO meet the standards for ambulatory clinics and YES they do let women look at the ultrasounds if they want to. I did.I shouldn't have to keep repeating myself.

I think Huck should be given official Serial Troll status.

 

Sorry, Maggie, for not reading all the way to the end of that article before. Red font on a purple background just doesn't work well for me!

If you haven't already written her, I might forward it along to the author of the column I cited in my initial post.

In what states? Not in Oregon, where they keep resisting such modest legislative measures:

http://landru.leg.state.or.us/05reg/measures/hb2500.dir/hb2531.intro.html

I'd be surprised if that were the norm. It certainly isn't supported by the testimony of post-abortive women I've known.