Geodesic Chemistry.

Discussion in 'Drug Chemistry' started by azygous420, Oct 9, 2008.

  1. azygous420

    azygous420 Member

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    All these chemicals here fit the Truncated Icosahedron... how strange. All are active on the same 5-htp receptor.

    Tihkal...

    AL-LADDBTDETDiPT5-MeO-α-MTDMT2,α-DMTα,N-DMTDPTEiPTα-ETETH-LADHarmalineHarmine4-HO-DBT4-HO-DET4-HO-DiPT4-HO-DMT5-HO-DMT4-HO-DPT4-HO-MET4-HO-MiPT4-HO-MPT4-HO-pyr-TLSDMBT4,5-MDO-DiPT5,6-MDO-DiPT4,5-MDO-DMT5,6-MDO-DMT5,6-MDO-MiPT2-Me-DET2-Me-DMTMelatonin5-MeO-DET5-MeO-DiPT5-MeO-DMT4-MeO-MiPT5-MeO-MiPT5,6-MeO-MiPT5-MeO-NMT5-MeO-pyr-T6-MeO-THH5-MeO-TMT5-MeS-DMTMiPTα-MTNETNMTPRO-LADpyr-TTryptamineTetrahydroharmineα,N,O-TMS

    And all of these...
    Pihkal...


    AEM · AL · Aleph · Aleph-2 · Aleph-4 · Aleph-6 · Aleph-7 · Ariadne · Asymbescaline · Buscaline · Beatrice · Bis-TOM · BOB · BOD · BOH · BOHD · BOM · 4-Bromo-3,5-dimethoxyamphetamine · 2-Bromo-4,5-methylenedioxyamphetamine · 2C-B · 3C-BZ · 2C-C · 2C-D · 2C-E · 3C-E · 2C-F · 2C-G · 2C-G-3 · 2C-G-4 · 2C-G-5 · 2C-G-N · 2C-H · 2C-I · 2C-N · 2C-O · 2C-O-4 · 2C-P · · 2C-SE · 2C-T · 2C-T-2 · 2C-T-4 · psi-2C-T-4 · 2C-T-7 · 2C-T-8 · 2C-T-9 · 2C-T-13 · 2C-T-15 · 2C-T-17 · 2C-T-21 · · beta-D · DESOXY · 2,4-DMA · 2,5-DMA · 3,4-DMA · · DME · DMMDA · DMMDA-2 · DMPEA · DOAM · DOB · DOBU · DOC · DOEF · DOET · DOI · DOM · psi-DOM · DON · DOPR · Escaline · EEE · EEM · EME · EMM · Ethyl-J (EBDB) · Ethyl-K · F-2 · F-22 · Flea · 3C-G-3 · 3C-G-4 · 3C-G-5 · 3C-G-N · Ganesha · HOT-2 · HOT-7 · HOT-17 · IDNNA · Isomescaline · Isoproscaline · Iris · J (BDB) · Lophophine · Mescaline · 4-MA · Madam-6 · Methallylescaline · MDA · MDAL · MDBU · MDBZ · · MDDM · MDE · MDHOET · MDIP · MDMA · MDMC (EDMA) · MDMEO · MDMEOET · MDMP · MDOH · MDPEA · MDPH · MDPL · MDPR · Metaescaline · MEDA · MEE · MEM · MEPEA · Meta-DOB · Meta-DOT · Methyl-DMA · Methyl-DOB · Methyl-J (MBDB) · Methyl-K · Methyl-MA (PMMA) · Methyl-MMDA-2 · MMDA · MMDA-2 · MMDA-3a · MMDA-3b · MME · Metaproscaline · MPM · Ortho-DOT · Proscaline · Phenescaline · Phenethylamine · Propynyl · Symbescaline · 2,3,4,5-Tetramethoxyamphetamine · 3-TASB · 4-TASB · 5-TASB · Thiobuscaline · 3-TE · 4-TE · 3-TIM · 4-TIM · 5-TIM · 3-TM · 4-TM · TMA · TMA-2 · TMA-3 · TMA-4 · TMA-5 · TMA-6 · 3-TME · 4-TME · 5-TME · 2T-MMDA-3a · 4T-MMDA-2 · 2-TOET · 5-TOET · 2-TOM · 5-TOM · TOMSO · Thioproscaline · Trisescaline · 3-TSB · 4-TSB · 3-T-Trisescaline · 4-T-Trisescaline



    These are the exception...

    4-D, CPM, DMCPA, MDCPM,
     
  2. azygous420

    azygous420 Member

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    [​IMG]


    So does this chemical work on human consciousness, and does it act on the 5-HTP receptor? If so it would be like the counter part for LSD but as a Triacontahedron-Lysergic Acid Diethylamide. This might be something like a 12 hour salvia trip, but I have no means to understand how to name this chemical or what it could do. But I call it Triacontahedron-Lysergic Acid Diethylamide

    Had the nitrogen in the wrong spot* correct now, and the amide* :mad: This is what I meant... CORRECT now.
     
  3. azygous420

    azygous420 Member

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    As far as I can tell, looking at chemical database after chemical database, no chemical like this really exists except, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinpocetine.

    http://www.chemspider.com/
    is where I looked too and it came back with nothing. meaning I may have conceptualized a new chemical. This chemical may very well be more powerful then LSD in potency and activity. My prediction is that it will work on the 5-HTP receptor and much like a combination of LSD and DMT.
     
  4. buzzjuice

    buzzjuice Guest

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    azygous. dude, what do you need done for this to be properly pursued?
     
  5. azygous420

    azygous420 Member

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    [​IMG]

    I have looked and looked but it appears this highly potential pharmaceutical Base does not exist in any chemical data base I have come across. I call it the Triacontahedron Base. The T-LSD could be made by fusing diethyamide to the top ring.

    But something concerns me. Why is it no one has made this simple shape in all of the chemical databases I can find.

    So many chemical variations could be made from this base which I am absolutly positive can cross the blood brain barrier and almost certainly be active.

    [​IMG]

    Vinpocetine, is very similar and can cross the blood brain barrier.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinpocetine


    As far as the LSA to LSD converter, I have doubts that it will work but it does intrigue me that it can allude to being the perfect tool for the job. Its very important that I did stumble down that path and find T-LSD. Which I can assume is my conceptualization. My invention of sorts.

    It helped to bring to the surface the underlying similarities of the chemicals which play a role in consciousness.
     
  6. azygous420

    azygous420 Member

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    [​IMG]
    T-LSD

    [​IMG]
    LSD-25
     
  7. azygous420

    azygous420 Member

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    Right now I'm trying to find a grant or some money somehow to attend college to find a way to synthesize the triacontahedron base tryptamine chemical. I will then synthesize all the pharmaceutical variations of this tryptamine for the first time in history, like tihkal and pihkal. The substructure exists fairly rarely in chemical databases.

    http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=10088443&loc=ec_rcs

    http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.8263980.html


    So I guess this may be a fairly difficult synthesis. Unless I can find a natural source of the base triacontahedron.
     
  8. Just amazing man.....

    But where is stalk :confused: :(
     
  9. StonerBill

    StonerBill Learn

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    mate you have a great imagination but you are going ahead of yourself here!!!
    why do you think that this theoretical compound would work at all?
    because it fits on the soccerball?

    you really should go study organic chem and it might become more clear why people have not made that chemical.

    I mean, your chemical is actually nothing like 'Vinpocetine'.

    im not being a cynical bastard, I just dont want you to get too caught up with imaginary chemistry.

    and why are you ignoring my input? there are serious logical discrepancies going on here. I mentioned before that although some chemicals might be able to be drawn on top of that 'Truncated Icosahedron', it doesnt mean that the actual molecules end up conforming to equal bond lengths, or that they are are stable when 'reconfigured' around a spherical surface.

    cmmmmmon dude, you are getting people real hyped up about this
     
  10. azygous420

    azygous420 Member

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    you are right the lengths aren't the same so I don't think the LSA to LSD converter would work in the form I proposed but the ideas will probably have an effect on understanding these chemicals. But I have learned quite a bit about brain chemistry just from this thread that I do think I can make the leap in logic that the T-LSD chemical would be active.
    1 its a tryptamine, it can cross the blood brain barrier.
    2 it has the DMT structure, mescaline, and LSD structures all somewhat tied up in this shape.
    3 I am planning on taking organic chemistry, I think it is foolish to think that you should ignore mathematical perfection in these chemicals are sheer coincidence. Nitrogens or no nitrogens the majority of the chemical physics would be not that dissimilar from those of PAH's, and I only mentioned Vinpocetine because it was the only chemical I could find even closely related but also it too is a tryptamine and can cross the blood brain barrier, as all tryptamines do... so thus they are connected.

    I put this information up to try to understand the complexities of LSD synthesis and to pose some, what seem, very realistic and profound results of the technology. In the process finding the underlying structures of all these chemicals was, as I predicted before verifying (based on process of elimination), all conforming to the truncated icosahedron.

    I know you say they are approximations but, this is just where it made logical since to take this. make the triacontahedron version of LSD, especially when most tryptamines are very powerful and mostly non-toxic, especially those naturally made.
     
  11. StonerBill

    StonerBill Learn

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    Your passion is needed in this world. But it must be coupled with reasonability.
    The geometric configurations are not coincidence, per se. They are just the logical result of a chemical system using carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen atoms.

    Now, T-LSD does not have DMT embedded (though it does have tryptamine), or a phenethylamine, whereas LSD does.

    can you elaborate on the theory?
     
  12. azygous420

    azygous420 Member

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    [​IMG]

    Blue is the DMT structure with the tail wrapped in on it self, Yellow is the Phenethylamine.

    To me, it seems that the tail nitrogen on the phenethylamine, and the base nitrogen on the indol, are, to the 5-ht receptor, the same thing. This is where it takes hold and does its thing.

    It does seem like this chemical is much more solid in structure then LSD, would this mean it would last much longer then LSD, or have a permanent effect?
     
  13. StonerBill

    StonerBill Learn

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    here is the overlays on LSD and you can see it is quite different.

    phenethylamine has no nitrogen in its ring. the ring is a very important part, all these drugs have it, I would say it is rather crucial to the docking-stage.
    as for the DMT, in your tLSD, you have highlighted methyltryptamine.

    now, heres an interesting chemical to consider (in black on the side) IF the 'overlaying' molecules concept holds.

    ps. i was checkin that list of drugs and noticed ibogaine doesnt fit on the soccerball
     
  14. StonerBill

    StonerBill Learn

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    so in that case above, the crucial similarity is the similar benz ring. the indole 'N' is indeed the same as the phenethylamine amine 'N', except that it has been looped around on itself.

    the 5ht receptor is not a rigid structure, it is a protein structure and likely wraps around these molecules somehow. i think the primary place of wrapping is likely to be the 'primary' benz ring. The extra stuff on the chemical seems like it would cause structural changes to the receptor protein, locking it in a certain shape, or hindering some metabolic process, effectively causing the 'agonist/high affiliation' relationship between psychedelics and 5ht receptors. but still, you should probably notice that the main similarity between all of the drugs is in its fundamental shape stemming from that bottom benzene.

    now check out the chemical that is meant to go into the 5ht receptors.. 5ht (serotonin). it is basicaly a tryptamine with OH group on the main benzene ring. Lets also look at dopamine, which is a phenethlyamine with OH groups on the benzene ring.

    this might suggest that phenethylamines affect dopamine receptors while tryptamines affect serotonin receptors.
    but we know phenethylamines affect serotonin receptors too

    does dopamine affect serotonin receptors?

    ok here is something funny:

    n,n-dimethylTRYPTAMINE is the most intense psychedelic known to man, while n,n-dimethyl PHENETHYLAMINE is a 'flavouring agent'

    weird stuff

    not intuitive
     
  15. azygous420

    azygous420 Member

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    Now you are on the right track! I was looking at dopamine today too! Here is the key similarity I think lies in the numbers. If you think of DMT the tail is random and flops around freely, right? so the only consistency about that is the number of carbons between each nitrogen, not exactly the shape. LSD, T-LSD, DMT all keep to the same number of carbons on the shortest path between each nitrogen.

    Also the N on the indole can be seen as a phenethylamine sort of warped around to be a pentagon on that same benzene ring you were talking about. I'm glad you pointed that out about the benzene ring but I think when you look at the numbers between the nitrogens you can derive action of the chemical much like the direction of the DMT tail is not tangible but the length is. So the numbers are the same in LSD and T-LSD hinting, at least from what I can see, to the same 5-HT action from nitrogen to nitrogen to nitrogen, just on lengths not direction.

    So I'm saying direction is not a factor its the numbers. And never the less its a tryptamine so it should cross the blood brain barrier. Also seeing as how so many tryptamine derivatives are psychedelics it would seem highly likely that this chemical is no exception to the tendency.

    The chemical you proposed exists, http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.168785.html

    Not much info on it at all...
     
  16. StonerBill

    StonerBill Learn

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    ahah i put my money on that chemical being one of the most potent psychedelics in the world!! let us have a T-LSD / 'phenethyl/tryptamine' war!!!
     
  17. Severely stoned

    Severely stoned Senior Member

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  18. azygous420

    azygous420 Member

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    Either way we all win, and learn more and more about human consciousness in the process. Your chemical is very promising too, very simple and straight forward. Do you think the chemical would be like a longer DMT trip?
     
  19. Now that would be interesting..
     

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